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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East > Syrian Civil War, 2011 - ?

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Syrian Civil War, 2011 - ? From a local uprising to a proxy war, we discuss the chaos in Syria.

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  #16  
Old 04 Apr 16, 11:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie3rar View Post
Saudi money owns Americas political elite. Following 9/11 the anger of the American people was deliberately misdirected to places where it could be expended with absolutely no result except squandered billions and dead and wounded. The aim was to protect Saudi wahhabi ideology from being linked to salafist global terror.
And it still is.
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  #17  
Old 04 Apr 16, 21:12
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Ah the good guys Vs the hordes ..always brings a tear to my eye

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooner View Post
From Pravda, Alexander Prokhorenko

"Officer: command I am compromised, repeat I am compromised.

Command: please repeat and confirm

Officer: They have spotted me, there are shooting everywhere, i am pinned, request evacuation immediately

Command: evacuation request acknowledged

Officer: please hurry I am low on ammo, they seem to everywhere, I canít hold them for too long please hurry

Command: Confirmed, hold them off, continue return of fire, go to safe position, air support is monitoring, state coordinates

Officer: gives coordinates which are blurred in the translation

Command: command repeats coordinates which are blurred. Confirm

Officer: confirmed, please hurry I am low on ammo, they are surroundig me, bastards

Command: 12 minutes until evacuation, return to safe line, I repeat return to safe line

Officer: They are close, I am surrounded, this may be the end, tell my family I love them dearly

Command: return to green line, continue return of fire, help is on the way, followed by air support

Officer: negative, I am surrounded, they are so many of these bastards

Command: 10 minutes, return to green line

Officer: I canít they have surrounded me and are closing in, please hurry

Command: move to green line, repeat move to green line

Officer: They are outside, conduct the airstrike now please hurry, this is the end, tell my family I love them and i died fighting for my motherland.

Command: Negative return to green line

Officer: I cant command, I am surrounded, they are outside, I donít want them to take me and parade me, conduct the airstrike, they will make a mockery of me and this uniform. I want to die with dignity and take all these bastards with me. please my last wish, conduct the airstrike, they will kill me either way.

Command: please confirm your request

Officer: They out outside, this is the end commander, thank you, tell my family and my country I love them. Tell them I was brave and I fought until I could no longer. Please take care of my family, avenge my death, good bye commander, tell my family I love them

Command: No response, orders the airstrike"
Interesting stuff. Here I was suggesting the Russians might know better.
Amazing how the 'West' (including the Russians it would seem!) still just loves this 'our' few brave lads 'last standing' against hordes of 'them' (Muslims, Native Americans, Mexicans, Asians, Africans etc).

Pathetic tripe in some ways.
Cripes, how hard can it be?
If you don't want another Isandlwana, retreat to Gandamak, Little Big Horn, Adwa, Dien Bien Phu, et.al, STOP BLOODY INTERVENING WHEN YOU SHOULDN'T!!

Being 'us' isn't a God-given right to treat parts of the world as a friggin' laboratory.

Regards lodestar
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  #18  
Old 08 Apr 16, 10:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lodestar View Post
Interesting stuff. Here I was suggesting the Russians might know better.
How would you like to have this service man react ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lodestar View Post
Amazing how the 'West' (including the Russians it would seem!) still just loves this 'our' few brave lads 'last standing' against hordes of 'them' (Muslims, Native Americans, Mexicans, Asians, Africans etc).
Do you want all service men react unethical ?

Do you want to equate the 500 Native nations of N. America to terrorist's ?
To which slaughter of Mexicans by the US army do you refer to ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lodestar View Post
Pathetic tripe in some ways.
If this is pathetic to you, how do you want service man to protect you from terrorist's ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lodestar View Post
Cripes, how hard can it be?
If you don't want another Isandlwana, retreat to Gandamak, Little Big Horn, Adwa, Dien Bien Phu, et.al, STOP BLOODY INTERVENING WHEN YOU SHOULDN'T!!
Are you nuts ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lodestar View Post
Being 'us' isn't a God-given right to treat parts of the world as a friggin' laboratory.
Is that what the Russians are doing in Syria ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lodestar View Post
Regards lodestar
You bought the cake this time.
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  #19  
Old 08 Apr 16, 13:05
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Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
And it still is.

nonsense
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  #20  
Old 08 Apr 16, 13:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie3rar View Post
The aim was to protect Saudi wahhabi ideology from being linked to salafist global terror.

Nonsense : wahhabi and salafist are not linked :regularly ISIS is attacking SA ,but never Iran or Turkey .
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Old 08 Apr 16, 14:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lodestar View Post
I don't think another Afghanistan-style quagmire is looming for the Russians.

Regards lodestar
Oh ye of little faith! Give Putin a chance, I am sure that he will deliver.
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  #22  
Old 08 Apr 16, 19:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lodestar View Post
Interesting stuff. Here I was suggesting the Russians might know better.
Amazing how the 'West' (including the Russians it would seem!) still just loves this 'our' few brave lads 'last standing' against hordes of 'them' (Muslims, Native Americans, Mexicans, Asians, Africans etc).

Pathetic tripe in some ways.
Cripes, how hard can it be?
If you don't want another Isandlwana, retreat to Gandamak, Little Big Horn, Adwa, Dien Bien Phu, et.al, STOP BLOODY INTERVENING WHEN YOU SHOULDN'T!!

Being 'us' isn't a God-given right to treat parts of the world as a friggin' laboratory.

Regards lodestar
But isn't hindsight a wonderful thing ?
You never can tell how things will eventually pan-out before the event. And the path to disaster is always paved with good intentions.

Yes- it IS hard.
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  #23  
Old 08 Apr 16, 23:00
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To intervene or not intervene taht is the question

Quote:
Originally Posted by BELGRAVE View Post
But isn't hindsight a wonderful thing ?
You never can tell how things will eventually pan-out before the event. And the path to disaster is always paved with good intentions.

Yes- it IS hard.
Yes hindsight is 20/20 and oh so wonderful.
My favourite being .... that 'in hindsight'.... the Soviets after WWII should never have allowed the West to have zones in Berlin.

However....ONE of the things about hindsight is that you should at least try and learn from it and learn from experience.

The West (or at least the US and UK) was warned about intervention in Iraq prior to the invasion.
Including famously in Australia by then just resigned intelligence officer former Lt Col Andrew Wilkie in an article in the 'Bulletin' magazine in early March 2003 entitled 'Don't Go There'.
Wilkie (one of my favourite anti- establishment whistle-blowers!) is now my local Member of Federal Parliament in Tassie and fully lodestar endorsed.

As for Good intentions?
Well that depends entirely on your point of view, one sides 'good intent' could be regarded by those on the receiving end of that intent as just plain unwarranted or unjustified aggression, interference or 'we know what's best for you people -trust us' smugness.

Regards lodestar
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  #24  
Old 08 Apr 16, 23:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lodestar View Post
Yes hindsight is 20/20 and oh so wonderful.
My favourite being .... that 'in hindsight'.... the Soviets after WWII should never have allowed the West to have zones in Berlin.

However....ONE of the things about hindsight is that you should at least try and learn from it and learn from experience.

The West (or at least the US and UK) was warned about intervention in Iraq prior to the invasion.
Including famously in Australia by then just resigned intelligence officer former Lt Col Andrew Wilkie in an article in the 'Bulletin' magazine in early March 2003 entitled 'Don't Go There'.
Wilkie (one of my favourite anti- establishment whistle-blowers!) is now my local Member of Federal Parliament in Tassie and fully lodestar endorsed.

As for Good intentions?
Well that depends entirely on your point of view, one sides 'good intent' could be regarded by those on the receiving end of that intent as just plain unwarranted or unjustified aggression, interference or 'we know what's best for you people -trust us' smugness.

Regards lodestar
Point of view ?

Right ,there's no doubt that Hitler and Co, thought it right to march into the Rhineland in 1936: an integral part of Germany, no doubt.
Why should France and Britain interfere ,after all weren't they only walking into their own backyard ? Wasn't it demilitarised in terms of the Versailles Treaty which, according to some, was "onerous" (don't see it myself, but there you are)?

Best to stay out ? Avoid unwarranted and unjustified aggression ?

The counter- argument is too obvious to spell-out.
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Last edited by BELGRAVE; 08 Apr 16 at 23:53..
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  #25  
Old 10 Apr 16, 07:47
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Good doco. Compares today's ISIS with yesterdays Ikhwan


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a48_1460278586

The roots of isis- how Saudiarabia betrayed the west
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  #26  
Old 10 Apr 16, 08:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BELGRAVE View Post
Point of view ?

Right ,there's no doubt that Hitler and Co, thought it right to march into the Rhineland in 1936: an integral part of Germany, no doubt.
Why should France and Britain interfere ,after all weren't they only walking into their own backyard ? Wasn't it demilitarised in terms of the Versailles Treaty which, according to some, was "onerous" (don't see it myself, but there you are)?

Best to stay out ? Avoid unwarranted and unjustified aggression ?

The counter- argument is too obvious to spell-out.
Public opinion in both Britain and France was opposed to any military intervention by France and/or Britain (and France couldn't afford it anyway) in much the same way as British public opinion was opposed to taking military action over Assad's use of chemical weapons and in democratic societies politicians tend to follow public opinion even though in hindsight public opinion may have been mistaken. Churchill did say something to the effect that democracy is the worst form of government until you look at the alternatives.
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  #27  
Old 10 Apr 16, 10:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Churchill did say something to the effect that democracy is the worst form of government until you look at the alternatives.
I doubt that Curchill is father of Truth. Democracy was endemic to ancient Europe and was extinct as dinosaurs for many centuries. Much greater number of Earth populace through many centuries practiced another types of social constructions Later reconstruction of Roman social institutions was needed for Capitalism functioning. Nowadays Capitalist economy has reached its logical end so Democracy with great probability will be replaced with something more viable.
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  #28  
Old 10 Apr 16, 12:05
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Originally Posted by Fareasterner View Post
I doubt that Curchill is father of Truth. Democracy was endemic to ancient Europe and was extinct as dinosaurs for many centuries. Much greater number of Earth populace through many centuries practiced another types of social constructions Later reconstruction of Roman social institutions was needed for Capitalism functioning. Nowadays Capitalist economy has reached its logical end so Democracy with great probability will be replaced with something more viable.
I'm afraid that is simple gobbledygook. Democracy as we know it was never endemic to ancient Europe. The adult male citizens who were the "electorate" in ancient classical Greece were a sub set of the population and the overwhelming majority were labourers who were effectively serfs (in Sparta Helots) and slaves who had minimal or no rights and of course women of any class had no elective rights. In the North Macedonia whilst sharing Greek culture had no polis and was always a kingdom with an autocratic rule.
The Roman Republic was little different from Classical Greece with regard to democracy whilst the Empire became increasingly Autocratic. Europe outside the empire was basically tribal and ruled by kings, chiefs and elders

Modern Western democracy was not constructed to meet the needs of capitalism although Engels was foolish enough (and lacked adequate historical knowledge) to think it was. It evolved and began to do so as feudalism declined with the growth of cities and the gradual transfer of power to a growing mercantile and trading class (see Citizenship: Critical Concepts by Brian S Turner). Mercantalism was not capitalism and, although its existence facilitated the emergence of the latter this was by no means inevitable.Modern concepts of democracy borrowed concepts and terminology from the ancients but is not a reconstruction of the old systems. Democracy and capitalism are not mutually dependent.
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  #29  
Old 10 Apr 16, 12:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Public opinion in both Britain and France was opposed to any military intervention by France and/or Britain (and France couldn't afford it anyway) in much the same way as British public opinion was opposed to taking military action over Assad's use of chemical weapons and in democratic societies politicians tend to follow public opinion even though in hindsight public opinion may have been mistaken. Churchill did say something to the effect that democracy is the worst form of government until you look at the alternatives.
So in other words, you like to bypass the democratic process, because there is a "proven" historical remedy, that will fix future events ?
Are you advocating that Brussels and Washington would be right to ignore public issues ?
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  #30  
Old 10 Apr 16, 12:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie3rar View Post
Good doco. Compares today's ISIS with yesterdays Ikhwan


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a48_1460278586

The roots of isis- how Saudiarabia betrayed the west
And corrupted it.
Thank you for the interesting vid.
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