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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > Ukrainian Crisis

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Ukrainian Crisis Discuss the unfolding crisis in Ukraine.

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  #16  
Old 26 May 16, 06:27
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UNHRC has written elaborate reports about Ukraine detailing torture by all sides, most were dismissed here as (Western) propaganda though.

from 2014.

Quote:
50. During the reporting period, the HRMMU continued to receive reports of torture and ill-treatment by the Ukrainian law enforcement agencies and volunteer battalions and by the armed groups, including beating, death threats, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, and lack of access to medical assistance. Some detainees who had been selected by the Government of Ukraine to be released, under the Minsk agreements, reported spending several days in detention without food and water.
http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Count...ne20.11.14.pdf

In general there's little love at the ACG for UNHR.
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  #17  
Old 29 May 16, 20:21
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If it was "reported" by a Russian then it cannot be trusted as reliable because Russians cannot be taken seriously as trustworthy people.

Every Russian aggression against peaceful European countries in the 20th and 21st century has been justified with shameful lies. "Protection of ethnic Russians" is the most common type of hogwash that's being recycled by Kremlin media.

So sorry if I don't believe your claims after seeing the same Russian behavior x15 times, under very similar circumstances to what we are seeing in Ukraine.
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Last edited by MonsterZero; 29 May 16 at 20:37..
  #18  
Old 30 May 16, 08:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoseDeafMutes View Post
What's especially mystifying is the point OP is trying to make. If we are to accept that this happened as described at face value and that the Ukrainian army is engaged in war crimes, is it supposed to then follow that this retroactively justifies Russia invading Crimea and initiating a bloody civil war in the Donbass?
The starting point was that the legally elected goverment was overthrown. The crimeans and people in Novorossiya are mostly russian and decided they don't want to take part in that. The Ukraine could have stopped the violence simply by allowing a plesbicite beeing held in those areas. Russia only stepped in to help people of their kind beeing attacked.

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Originally Posted by MonsterZero View Post
If it was "reported" by a Russian then it cannot be trusted as reliable because Russians cannot be taken seriously as trustworthy people.
Good way to ignore anything what doesn't fit in your own world. Of course anything Russians say is a lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterZero View Post
Every Russian aggression against peaceful European countries in the 20th and 21st century has been justified with shameful lies. "Protection of ethnic Russians" is the most common type of hogwash that's being recycled by Kremlin media.
Well a nation usually should protect its own kind when its under attack. Or should Russia have claimed Ukraine has Weapons of mass destruction?
  #19  
Old 30 May 16, 12:07
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Originally Posted by MonsterZero View Post
Every Russian aggression against peaceful European countries in the 20th and 21st century has been justified with shameful lies.
Don't you feel the phrase will become a jewel if you just omit the word 'Russian'? And 'against peaceful European countries in the 20th and 21st century'.

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Originally Posted by MonsterZero View Post
seeing the same Russian behavior x15 times
Огласите весь список, пожалуйста! (Announce all the list please!) I feel I forgot something arond 10 'Russian aggression against peaceful European countries in the 20th and 21st century'.
  #20  
Old 31 May 16, 07:06
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Last time when peaceful european countries invade Russia it was finished with red flag on reichestag where peaceful nazis plot to defeat Russia.

European countries peaceful?
That can be said only by total hystoric ignorant.
Stallin is little burglar comparing to some european countries.

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  #21  
Old 31 May 16, 09:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawker_gb View Post
Last time when peaceful european countries invade Russia it was finished with red flag on reichestag where peaceful nazis plot to defeat Russia.
That was not the finish, just the start of the second round
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  #22  
Old 31 May 16, 11:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawker_gb View Post
Last time when peaceful european countries invade Russia it was finished with red flag on reichestag where peaceful nazis plot to defeat Russia.

European countries peaceful?
That can be said only by total hystoric ignorant.
Stallin is little burglar comparing to some european countries.

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If you can't work out the differences between Nazism and other things, then that's akin to arguing that since it's actually impossible to make an operating theatre 100% sterile, one might as well operate in a sewer...
  #23  
Old 31 May 16, 14:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
That was not the finish, just the start of the second round
O yes,every few decades Russians must pacify some european countries stupid enough to invade them.



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  #24  
Old 08 Jun 16, 12:15
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I guess the Russians could just go home and leave the Ukraine and its soldiers alone. That would be the best way to end the problem. Hmm, I guess that is just too simple to comprehend. I mean, how many Russian backed forces members were being tortured by Ukraine forces before the invasion???

Don't get me wrong here. I DO NOT make excuses for torture. Ones found guilty of such should be prosecuted. Then again, the sovereignty of a country should be respected. The Russians should respect the international borders that the rest of the world does. Time to pack up your $hit boys and go back home. PERIOD!!
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Old 09 Jun 16, 12:18
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Ukraine conflict: more cases of trafficking and torture than previously thought

Human rights groups have received thousands of reports of ill treatment from both the pro-Russian and Ukrainian sides in the ongoing conflict. Representatives are due to meet in Minsk for the first time in weeks.

German broadcaster "Deutschlandfunk" reported on Wednesday that more than 4,000 cases of ill treatment and trafficking have been documented by human rights organizations during the ongoing Ukrainian conflict. The figure is likely to be even higher, however, with civilians as well as members of military associations among the victims.

"We can show that 4,000 people have been held hostage last summer," said Oleksandra Matwitschuk of the Centre for Civil Liberty.

According to the report, the vast majority of disappearances and ill treatment took place at the hands of pro-Russian separatists. Russian citizens - 58 of whom were identified by name - were also arrested and suffered ill treatment, the Center said. Enforced disappearances and torture by the Ukrainian side were also reported, although there is no systematic recording process in place.


Full article:http://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-conflic...ght/a-19265157
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  #26  
Old 10 Jun 16, 04:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaOne View Post
I guess the Russians could just go home and leave the Ukraine and its soldiers alone. That would be the best way to end the problem. Hmm, I guess that is just too simple to comprehend. I mean, how many Russian backed forces members were being tortured by Ukraine forces before the invasion???
How many American rebel forces were tortured or killed by the British before their illegal rebellion? They had to pack their ****, shut up, pay the king his due and be his good bitches. Then all would've been fine and so many people wouldn't have been killed. Stupid, stupid Americans who rebelled against the British! They even allowed the French to help them on the British Royal Sovereign soil, which is an even greater treason!
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  #27  
Old 10 Jun 16, 05:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaOne View Post
I guess the Russians could just go home and leave the Ukraine and its soldiers alone.
"Russians" (rebels) are Ukrainian citizens. They are already home. Support from abroad doesn't change this.
Quote:
The Russians should respect the international borders that the rest of the world does.
"The rest of the world" (meaning the West) supports rebels against the legal government in Syria and supported them in Lybia and Kosovo. Actually Russia just follows the best practices of our Euro-American colleagues.
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Old 10 Jun 16, 09:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyom_A View Post
"Russians" (rebels) are Ukrainian citizens. They are already home. Support from abroad doesn't change this.

"The rest of the world" (meaning the West) supports rebels against the legal government in Syria and supported them in Lybia and Kosovo. Actually Russia just follows the best practices of our Euro-American colleagues.
There's a difference in timeline regarding killing that makes Russia different from the US in that. Russia makes things up — then responds to its own inventions.

That Russian state controlled media for propaganda purposes inverts timelines and denies things doesn't change that.

Syrian rebels only got support when Assad had decided negotiating any kind of transition wasn't going to happen, since he found it easier to just kill the protesters. Russia might CLAIM something like that would have happened in Ukraine — but remains no more than an unsubstantiated, and given Russian actions unsubstantiable — as highly improbable, as it is self-serving — claim.
  #29  
Old 10 Jun 16, 11:53
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Even the butcher strelkov, a russian citizen, boasts that nothing much would have happened if his band of bloody brothers had not crossed the border to incite violence

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...ne/511584.html
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Old 10 Jun 16, 19:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyom_A View Post
"Russians" (rebels) are Ukrainian citizens. They are already home. Support from abroad doesn't change this.

"The rest of the world" (meaning the West) supports rebels against the legal government in Syria and supported them in Lybia and Kosovo. Actually Russia just follows the best practices of our Euro-American colleagues.
You can be a Russian blood and live in another country. My wife was born in Canada from Italian immigrants. Is she Canadian or Italian? The answer is 'Who the f#&k cares?' She can be both if she desires. She can enjoy her two cultures, without insisting on stomping on another person's rights.

I don't give a flying F#&K if a 'Russian' lives in Ukraine or not. It DOES NOT give the 'country of Russia' the right to cross internationally recognized borders and seize land, resources and commit murder.

Now, let me address Syria. When a country is committing crimes against humanity, other nations have a moral obligation to defend unarmed, untrained and innocent children, women and the elderly. Are you going to try and float the biggest turd down the river that Ukraine was on level ground with Syria? Because if you are, I will call BULL$HIT every single day!! I traveled that entire region before your egomaniac president decided to ever invade the country. It was peaceful. The people were not being barrel-bombed! Schools and hospitals were not being destroyed by soldiers! The whole damn world knows that was NOT happening. So if you want to keep looking like an idiot, continue trying to make us believe the BS that such crimes were happening.
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