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Africa Issues of modern Africa.

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  #31  
Old 02 Mar 16, 00:39
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Dammit...

If this sort of thing was going on in our region, we would be obliged to.

Its right next door to South Africa though. Presumably, they wouldn't need our help anyway. I'm sure the south African military, (bigger and nastier that it is than ours), and we don't get billion dollar aid programs for our C-130's, or anything else we purchase from them.
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  #32  
Old 02 Mar 16, 02:04
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Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
How about you Aussies step up and fix the problem. I can tell you that we Americans are sick of trying to fix a ungrateful world. Mobilize a army and go do it rather than telling others to fix it.

If its something your so passionate about do it. Don't castigate others if your not willing to do the lifting...
Arguably, Australia has. Timor Leste and the Solomons come to mind.
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  #33  
Old 02 Mar 16, 07:49
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  #34  
Old 02 Mar 16, 09:20
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Don't get confused. Mugabe may use a leftist cloak but what he is about is enriching himself and his family - the 'party' members also. It was the same in Zambia under Kaunda when I was there and Zuma appears to be going the same way in SA
Zuma though a thief is dependent on support of the ANC not the other way round. He is not even the president of the ANC. The problem in zim and Zambia was total control of the political party, courts, military and civil government. Zuma may even face criminal chargers after he leaves office
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  #35  
Old 02 Mar 16, 09:31
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Originally Posted by Drusus Nero View Post
Dammit...

If this sort of thing was going on in our region, we would be obliged to.

Its right next door to South Africa though. Presumably, they wouldn't need our help anyway. I'm sure the south African military, (bigger and nastier that it is than ours), and we don't get billion dollar aid programs for our C-130's, or anything else we purchase from them.
holy crap we get a billion usd in military aid? That's like the navies budget.

The country gets a billion usd the SANDF does not even get a billion rand. Most aid is aids programs and social projects.



Again what does SA gain from intervening. See we intervene in Lesotho since the Lesotho Highland water project is critical for South Africa. There is nothing in zim we need. Intervening will only cost SA solders there lives, widow families, turn breadwinners in to drain on the state has the country is forced to care for war wounded. Over all it very costly in the short and long term for no gain. All so what is our justification? remember South Africa is not a western country we called Gadfi a Ally, are still a ally of cuba, Iran, China, Russia, extra extra. We may not be a dictatorship but we ally with them. So removing mugby with what justification. Zuma spent more on a house than the entire Aid budget from the UK. Sure he is now being slowly forced to pay a lot of it back (how is a question since his net worth does not cover the amount) So he is a bad president does not cover it since Zuma is not a beacon of light either.
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  #36  
Old 02 Mar 16, 20:28
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So the same billion dollars you scoffed at for "developmental aid" is now not to be scoffed at when we compare it to naval budgets, quite unecessarily so, I might add.

South Africa should JUSTIFY military spending on the scale that it does, considering the lack of creditable opposition..

Libya or Chad is too far away, but Zimbabwe is right on your own doorstep. Could be a quick and cheap operation....Call it "Operation "FreeElections." Go in and stay there for as long as it takes to make certain of a free and fair elction process. Make it plain that you are NOT STAYING, over and above the election itself.

Accusations of Imperialism will drop away as much from the grateful testimonies of relieved civilians that have to dislocate their lives to "live" with the policies of the Regime.

As I said, you should be conducting humanitarian relief for Zimbabwe as it is. That much you could manage without intervening in the looming fast civil war thats brewing.

Last edited by Drusus Nero; 02 Mar 16 at 20:34..
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  #37  
Old 02 Mar 16, 20:30
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You also told us that much of the aid money was to go to refurbishing and overhaul of your C-130s.
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  #38  
Old 02 Mar 16, 20:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drusus Nero View Post
So the same billion dollars you scoffed at for "developmental aid" is now not to be scoffed at when we compare it to naval budgets, quite unecessarily so, I might add.

South Africa should JUSTIFY military spending on the scale that it does, considering the lack of creditable opposition..

Libya or Chad is too far away, but Zimbabwe is right on your own doorstep. Could be a quick and cheap operation....Call it "Operation "FreeElections." Go in and stay there for as long as it takes to make certain of a free and fair elction process. Make it plain that you are NOT STAYING, over and above the election itself.

Accusations of Imperialism will drop away as much from the grateful testimonies of relieved civilians that have to dislocate their lives to "live" with the policies of the Regime.

As I said, you should be conducting humanitarian relief for Zimbabwe as it is. That much you could manage without intervening in the looming fast civil war thats brewing.
Okay lets go with that, what happens when the elections go along tribal themes and they elect another despot? Do they invade again? Repeat as necessary?

One thing that we've learned is you can't dictate a given nations path. Look at Iraq, Libya, Egypt, ect... What if that is their preferred type of government?
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  #39  
Old 02 Mar 16, 22:23
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Observance of international law is EVERYBODIE's reponsibil;ity.
Sign up and go save the world then, but do not ask me to send my boy to die in the lower intestine of the world.
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  #40  
Old 03 Mar 16, 00:19
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You also told us that much of the aid money was to go to refurbishing and overhaul of your C-130s.
Military aid. It about 80 to 90% the rest is Aids awarnce, building orphanages all that jaz
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  #41  
Old 03 Mar 16, 00:24
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Originally Posted by Drusus Nero View Post
So the same billion dollars you scoffed at for "developmental aid" is now not to be scoffed at when we compare it to naval budgets, quite unecessarily so, I might add.

South Africa should JUSTIFY military spending on the scale that it does, considering the lack of creditable opposition..

Libya or Chad is too far away, but Zimbabwe is right on your own doorstep. Could be a quick and cheap operation....Call it "Operation "FreeElections." Go in and stay there for as long as it takes to make certain of a free and fair elction process. Make it plain that you are NOT STAYING, over and above the election itself.

Accusations of Imperialism will drop away as much from the grateful testimonies of relieved civilians that have to dislocate their lives to "live" with the policies of the Regime.

As I said, you should be conducting humanitarian relief for Zimbabwe as it is. That much you could manage without intervening in the looming fast civil war thats brewing.
South africa spends 1% of it's GDP on defence and just cut soending by 3%

You really think It will be quick? You dont know thecpoltics of zim. Mugaby is still heavily supported. We wont be seenbas liberators.


You still have not answered what SA gains from this. We loose money and lives so what is our gain.
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  #42  
Old 03 Mar 16, 19:25
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The "gain" as you refer to it is precise as it is humanitarian.

Not only do you "gain" the grateful support of all the Zimbabweans that have been left to die, you also "gain" their continued lifespean. Oh of course, they're only tribal idiots aren't they? Not worthy of "humanitarian" help.

Military actions for humanitarian purpose rarely "gain" anything.

Sitting on your hands is a bigger crime than the perpetrators.
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  #43  
Old 03 Mar 16, 19:27
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Don't ever refer to ME as racist while you sit talking of "gain" for doing something your signing of International Law should compell you to do.
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  #44  
Old 04 Mar 16, 00:11
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The "gain" as you refer to it is precise as it is humanitarian.

Not only do you "gain" the grateful support of all the Zimbabweans that have been left to die, you also "gain" their continued lifespean. Oh of course, they're only tribal idiots aren't they? Not worthy of "humanitarian" help.

Military actions for humanitarian purpose rarely "gain" anything.

Sitting on your hands is a bigger crime than the perpetrators.
Do the people of iraq support America, does Libya sing the praises of France? Dont assume the masses want your support. Is there countuied life span worth the death and maiming of south Africans?

So please show how South Africs will gain from this.
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  #45  
Old 04 Mar 16, 00:13
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Don't ever refer to ME as racist while you sit talking of "gain" for doing something your signing of International Law should compell you to do.
No law we signed compells us to do any thing.
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