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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Africa

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Africa Issues of modern Africa.

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  #1  
Old 27 Feb 16, 11:05
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Happy birthday Robert Mugabe!

ZIMBABWE
Robert Mugabe, aged President of Zimbabwe, has celebrated his 90th birthday in a ceremony honouring him today.

Commenting on the state of affairs in Zimbabwe to the BBC World Service in an interview this evening, Zimbabwean journalist Mozeti Cross feels that the principle issue facing Zimbabweans at the present time is the transfer of power and all that goes with it for the President.

Cross stated that Mugabe.."Has ceased to influence the government anyway. His place has been firmly taken over by his wife, and her army and government supporters."

Cross also feels that the situation in Zimbabwean politics is "Likely to get out of control very quickly if a successor isn't announced soon."

When asked for comment as to the other likely contenders for the top job, over and above Mugabe's wife and her supporters, Cross mentioned Mr MUNANGAGWA, the "Principal architect of the defeat of MDCT in 2013". He has lots of support, and was so successful that MDCT is no longer a "player" in Zimbabwe's volatile political scene.

Cross also mentioned a group of what he referred to as "Young turks", going by the name of G-40, under their leader, a Mr. KOSUKWARI, as another likely contender.

However, Mozeti Cross also conceded that the political climate in Zimbabwe is fairly fluid, and always has been so. He related a comment made about the subject by a freind of his, by way of explanation...

"If you sent 3 Zimbabweans to the Moon, they will come back with 4 political parties !"

Drusus

Last edited by Drusus Nero; 27 Feb 16 at 11:13..
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  #2  
Old 27 Feb 16, 12:01
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So, south Africa and others that have refused to intervene in zimbabwe are probably going to be too late to save hundreds of thousands of desperate rural people, in addition to the mass of urbanites trying to get out of Zimbabwe.

How long does this have to go on? And with a possible civil War looming, claims that South Africa is hanging back to "see a peaceful tranisition of power" are looking more and more like a daydream, or a bald faced lie.

C'mon SA.

theres a humanitarian crisis on your doorstep.

Nudge nudge...wink wink...
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Old 27 Feb 16, 12:16
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He's celebrating with a huge banquet in a part of his country suffering from drought and starvation - how insensitive can one get? Hope he chokes on his starter. Unfortunately some of SA's leadership seem equally obsessed with keeping their snouts in the trough so I won't hope for much from there.
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Old 27 Feb 16, 12:25
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Were people not highly critical of the U.S. intervening in Vietnam to prevent the kind of mass murder that Stalin perpetuated in Russia? Civil wars are messy business and colonization seems to only delay them until the colonial powers exits the scene. I would offer India as an example.

We could of course have a one world government but that has already been tried to a limited extent during the Roman period. I could argue there are too many states in the South of Africa but someone would label me an imperialist.
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Old 29 Feb 16, 13:58
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Oh, damn, I forgot to send him a birthday card, I hope he wasn't too upset.

---------------------------------------------------------------

I was working for a charity here in the UK when another of Africa's nice dictators, Uncle Idi, kicked out the Asians, and was involved in rehousing some in Bristol.
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Old 29 Feb 16, 14:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drusus Nero View Post
So, south Africa and others that have refused to intervene in zimbabwe are probably going to be too late to save hundreds of thousands of desperate rural people, in addition to the mass of urbanites trying to get out of Zimbabwe.

How long does this have to go on? And with a possible civil War looming, claims that South Africa is hanging back to "see a peaceful tranisition of power" are looking more and more like a daydream, or a bald faced lie.

C'mon SA.

theres a humanitarian crisis on your doorstep.

Nudge nudge...wink wink...
Why is.it South Africa's responsibility to fix it? They didn't make Zimbabwe the way it is. Why should they send their sons there to die and spent boatloads of money to fix someone else's problem. It isn't like the locals would appreciate it and welcome them as liberators anyway, they'd fight them as foreign occupiers. South Africa is wise to not take on the task of fixing this basket case. Best to seal up the border and protect themselves from whatever comes next.
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Old 29 Feb 16, 14:38
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I see this video is still valid...

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Old 29 Feb 16, 14:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frisco17 View Post
Why is.it South Africa's responsibility to fix it? They didn't make Zimbabwe the way it is. Why should they send their sons there to die and spent boatloads of money to fix someone else's problem. It isn't like the locals would appreciate it and welcome them as liberators anyway, they'd fight them as foreign occupiers. South Africa is wise to not take on the task of fixing this basket case. Best to seal up the border and protect themselves from whatever comes next.
We can hope they have a 'Let them eat cake' movement. But let them know they have to do it on their own. We aren't getting involved.
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Old 29 Feb 16, 17:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drusus Nero View Post
["If you sent 3 Zimbabweans to the Moon, they will come back with 4 political parties !"

Drusus
On the other hand, if they came back with pockets full of rocks they'd be worth more than all the wealth in Zimbabwe...
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Old 29 Feb 16, 18:01
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Observance of international law is EVERYBODIE's reponsibil;ity.

When its **** plain obvious that a human rights debacle is not only brewing, but has been in place for years, its time to ACT.

This whole idea of sitting and watching one black Arfican dictator after another do exactly what they please is WRONG.

If so, why did Europe intervene in Poland, 1939?

Why didn't we sit back and say "Oh well, a few Jews more or less. Thats their internal problem."

If it was happening in the United states it would be an international disgrace.

But because its a black African dictatorship....

South Africa expected the rest of the world to condemn Aparthied. I don't even see them doing only that for Zimbabwe, let alone the famine, or the election rigging, or the brutal torture and aduction of opposition politicians.

Yep, lets let Zimbabwean farmers of all colors go to the wall and flee into nieghbouring countries enmasse before we even issue a "strongly worded protest."

Whats the point of having all the military buildup from a relatively rich country like South Africa if its not a force for good, or for positive change?

Its obvious SAs nieghbours are not going to launch their catapults anytime soon. So why bother having an expensive Military force at all if the only excuse you can offer for its intended use is "not our business"?

Africans are stuffing it up as usual.

Couldn't run a BBQ in a butcher shop.

Last edited by Drusus Nero; 29 Feb 16 at 19:26..
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Old 29 Feb 16, 18:07
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Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
On the other hand, if they came back with pockets full of rocks they'd be worth more than all the wealth in Zimbabwe...
In your haste to be politically correct, TAG, you miss the point entirely.

I notice the African forum here is full of indifference based on the "not our peoblem" school of thought.

How bad does a "problem" have to get before any of you will sanction intervention on any level?

Do we have to start a hash tag movement "#African lives MATTER"?

This is what forum's are for, my freinds, or one of the reasons anyway. To publically expose while at the same time informing.

thank the BBC in Africa for having eyes, ears and mouthpieces everywhere, in every country, keeping the bastards honest.

And pricking our collective consciences as well.
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Old 29 Feb 16, 18:31
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In any case...it doesn't have to be a fully fledged INVASION.

Intervention can fall short of that, and concentrate on getting basic services and food to people on their last legs.

While they are their, they might notice a lot more as well.

Australian Policing of the solomon islands, for instance, was a parmilitary intervention, and the reaction from the locals was nothing short of grateful.

The same reaction will be seen from Zimbabweans.

We have just employed in our Security firm a fellow called GOODWILL, direct from Zimbabwe.Hes a good worker, and an intelligent man to boot.

Zimbabweans deserve better than a permanent state of emergency. They might have "elected" Mugabe, but they certainly didn't elect his wife, or her supporters.

Same for South Africa. When Nelson Mandela was sick, Winnie Mandela stood in his place for the ANC. I'm afraid elections don't work like that everywhere else.

If our PM Malcolm turnbull tried to get his wife to do ANYTHING as a representative of Malcolm in an official capacity, Malcolm wouldn't have a job for very long.

Why are Africans always the exception to the rule? International law applies to everyone, black or white.

Oh yeah...lets just push the "rascism" button on the great instrument panel of zimbabwe....likewise South Africans are frantically pushing the "none of our business" button.

Black South Africans wanted the world to get involved in pulling down Aparthied.

You hypocrits.
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Old 29 Feb 16, 18:46
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I put it to you all that this "sitting on your hands" from the south Africans is a very old policy.

If you can have your immediate nieghbours in a constant state of chaos, it no only gurantees your own security, it also makes your sordid little country look all the better.

All this while you export your unwanted semi-educants, and make sure that they never return to the land that bore them. wheres the "tradition" in that? Why does the australian taxpayer have to foot the bill for people that you can't be bothered with in our country?

Seems simpler just to intervene, get rid of people like Mugabe. Or at least give the oppressed opposition a proper chance to conduct free and fair, outside observed elections, and lets determine whether Mugabe really should be there or not, according to the people.

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Old 29 Feb 16, 21:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drusus Nero View Post
Observance of international law is EVERYBODIE's reponsibil;ity.

When its **** plain obvious that a human rights debacle is not only brewing, but has been in place for years, its time to ACT.

This whole idea of sitting and watching one black Arfican dictator after another do exactly what they please is WRONG.

If so, why did Europe intervene in Poland, 1939?

Why didn't we sit back and say "Oh well, a few Jews more or less. Thats their internal problem."

If it was happening in the United states it would be an international disgrace.

But because its a black African dictatorship....

South Africa expected the rest of the world to condemn Aparthied. I don't even see them doing only that for Zimbabwe, let alone the famine, or the election rigging, or the brutal torture and aduction of opposition politicians.

Yep, lets let Zimbabwean farmers of all colors go to the wall and flee into nieghbouring countries enmasse before we even issue a "strongly worded protest."

Whats the point of having all the military buildup from a relatively rich country like South Africa if its not a force for good, or for positive change?

Its obvious SAs nieghbours are not going to launch their catapults anytime soon. So why bother having an expensive Military force at all if the only excuse you can offer for its intended use is "not our business"?

Africans are stuffing it up as usual.

Couldn't run a BBQ in a butcher shop.
Actually, we did sit back for time. I don't think the Commonwealth got involved because it was the right thing to do. They had a vested interest in protecting Great Britain and her allies. The U.S. sure didn't get involved so they could win the 'Goodwill Nation of the Year' award.

As an individual, I absolutely support support wiping pieces of like Mugabe from the planet on principle alone. But getting everyone to agree and act is nearly impossible, and then most people want something out of it. Then we have the bigger issues of - can anyone take their place and actually improve the situation of their people? are we going to stabilize an entire region? are going to end with a country that needs billions of dollars of infrastructure and support to stand on its feet?

At any rate, if there is a responsibility to clean house, it is a responsibility for the world to share Placing the blame at the feet of their neighbors doesn't seem right. Of course, then we go back to the issue of trying to get all the other countries to do the right thing just because. I think that's called a pipe dream.
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Old 29 Feb 16, 21:24
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I'm not blaming the South Aricans for a second.

But, obviously, someone has to act as a policeman on a macro-continental scale..

Rather like the Doctor on his way home from work, driving straight past an auto accident that they personally witnessed, and driving on.

Here, the bystander is made liable for the lack of duty of care.

The ones that ultimately pay, (ordinary Zimbabweans), have evn less say than we do.

When RM dies, that will be the perfect time to send in large numbers of interventionists, guaranteeing a non-recurrance of a more than inevitable civil war.
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