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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > World War II > Armor in World War II

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Armor in World War II Discuss all aspects & disciplines of World War II Armor here.

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  #1  
Old 17 Dec 15, 12:06
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Armor sources/authors

I'm trying to come to terms with what sources, authors and types of sources are valued among those that post here. We all know and read Spielberger, Hunnicutt, Jentz, Doyle, etc and value their works. I think this is a given. I would say their works are accepted as standards which can be relied on. I'd like to know what this population thinks of some other book types and authors. Example, are Osprey books considered accurate? Is Steven Zaloga considered a reliable source? (I don't mean to single out Zaloga but he was the only author I could think of that was not part of the holy group of armor authors. Feel free to add any newer authors you feel should/should not be accepted.) What is a rule of thumb used to determine the value of a source? Any help along these lines would be appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 18 Dec 15, 14:44
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For French armour, there are a number of monographs written by a French team, but published in English which are good. Series name is Trackstory. Histoires & Collections also has good stuff, but it's usually in French.

Out of Poland is Militaria, quite often bilingual Polish and English. These are good for Soviet stuff if you can't read Russian and are frequently translations of Kolomiets (?) et al.. There is also an Italian publisher good for the Italian armour and the Italian campaign. And Charles Klement for Czech armour.
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Old 19 Dec 15, 05:12
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Baryatinskiy is good for Russian/Soviet stuff but so far as I am aware the number of books available in English is fairly small. Neil Stokes has written what is without doubt the best single-volume technical coverage of the KV series available in English. Andrew Devey has done work of similar quality with his 2-volume set on the Jagdtigers, but with a balance of technical and operational information. The combined team of Spielberber, Doyle & Jentz produced among other things an outstanding 2-volume set on light and heavy jagdpanzers which IMO is outstanding. IMHO Osprey books vary considerably in their quality of info; some are pretty good as far as they go but in all cases I've seen they are little more than a basic primer so I wouldn't expect anything much in depth. Given their size and relative low cost I guess that's reasonable. The variety of authors used is considerable. Best IMO is to remember the Ospreys are relatively basic with highly varied informational quality and to assess them on a case-by-case basis.
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Old 19 Dec 15, 07:52
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Originally Posted by panther3485 View Post
Baryatinskiy is good for Russian/Soviet stuff but so far as I am aware the number of books available in English is fairly small. Neil Stokes has written what is without doubt the best single-volume technical coverage of the KV series available in English. Andrew Devey has done work of similar quality with his 2-volume set on the Jagdtigers, but with a balance of technical and operational information. The combined team of Spielberber, Doyle & Jentz produced among other things an outstanding 2-volume set on light and heavy jagdpanzers which IMO is outstanding. IMHO Osprey books vary considerably in their quality of info; some are pretty good as far as they go but in all cases I've seen they are little more than a basic primer so I wouldn't expect anything much in depth. Given their size and relative low cost I guess that's reasonable. The variety of authors used is considerable. Best IMO is to remember the Ospreys are relatively basic with highly varied informational quality and to assess them on a case-by-case basis.
Agreed, Ospreys' are a bit like wiki in quality of information, but remain good primers. Even authors vary. I have two works by Dick Taylor. One is on the Comet which I consider next to useless unless you like photos of the tank. However, his work Into The Vally I consider superb.

You cannot really beat Hunnicutt for single works on any US tank afaik.

David Fletcher is the guy for British Armour.

Same is true for Jentz and Speilberger concerning German tanks.

I have several books on Soviet armour, and while I consider Baryatinskiy the best author I have on that subject, his works are still too lightweight considering the material produced by the others above.

Some have produced the odd great book as well, such as Harry Yeilde's The Infantry's Armor. This book really concerns the Sherman in action.

Zaloga is probably the best single author. I do not always agree with his opinions, especially with his volume Armored Champion, but he is very prolific, and usually accurate.
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Old 19 Dec 15, 08:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
Agreed, Ospreys' are a bit like wiki in quality of information, but remain good primers. Even authors vary. I have two works by Dick Taylor. One is on the Comet which I consider next to useless unless you like photos of the tank. However, his work Into The Vally I consider superb.

You cannot really beat Hunnicutt for single works on any US tank afaik.

David Fletcher is the guy for British Armour.

Same is true for Jentz and Speilberger concerning German tanks.

I have several books on Soviet armour, and while I consider Baryatinskiy the best author I have on that subject, his works are still too lightweight considering the material produced by the others above.

Some have produced the odd great book as well, such as Harry Yeilde's The Infantry's Armor. This book really concerns the Sherman in action.

Zaloga is probably the best single author. I do not always agree with his opinions, especially with his volume Armored Champion, but he is very prolific, and usually accurate.
Agreed on Hunnicutt but I didn't mention him in response to JBark's post because IIRC he is already aware of Hunnicutt.

Baryatinsky - agreed again, to an extent. He is only light on quantity though, IMHO. In other words, his works are not "extensive" enough. But I think he's bang on for quality.

I'd rate Zaloga quite highly and probably "best" for quantity but IMHO not always consistently for quality as such. Don't get me wrong though; he is very good.
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Old 19 Dec 15, 11:27
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With combat use of armor, Glantz (supplemented by armor books covering other aspects) is the best author, bar none. The thing with those armor authors is that they don't focus much on combat at all, and the rest is left to speculation. The Armored Campaign in Normandy (Napier) was not bad. Forcyck, particularly Tank warfare on the Eastern Front, is also good.

The Blitzkrieg Legend and Doughty's two books are good for France 1940.

Edward's Tip of the Spear and Scouts out complement each other and is good for german armored recon. The first book compiles combat accounts throughout the war, the second is more about doctrine/OOB.

Unit histories are all worth reading cover to cover.
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Old 19 Dec 15, 13:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBark View Post
I'm trying to come to terms with what sources, authors and types of sources are valued among those that post here. We all know and read Spielberger, Hunnicutt, Jentz, Doyle, etc and value their works. I think this is a given. I would say their works are accepted as standards which can be relied on. I'd like to know what this population thinks of some other book types and authors. Example, are Osprey books considered accurate? Is Steven Zaloga considered a reliable source? (I don't mean to single out Zaloga but he was the only author I could think of that was not part of the holy group of armor authors. Feel free to add any newer authors you feel should/should not be accepted.) What is a rule of thumb used to determine the value of a source? Any help along these lines would be appreciated.
I value any source that can provide new insights and information. That might be anything from a primary source (original document) to a Wiki-article.

I try to establish the varacity of any source by using basic source criticism. As an example, I put faith in the works of Thomas Jentz, even though he does not provide any proper references, because I've been able to find some of the same insights in other sources that do have proper references to the source of the original documents. The reality is, however, that very few works of popular and recognized armour authors would pass even as first year papers at a university bachelors history programme.

But I always try to use as many different sources as possible/available to shed light on an issue and try to keep an open mind when others suggest that what I believe is wrong. They just might have found some obscure reference that sheds new light on things.

Many authors publish both in-depth, detailed studies and more popular accounts of the same subject. Jentz have made Ospreys and he have made PanzerTracts and books on the same subjects.
Also, we learn more all the time, so that definitive account that a renowned author wrote 20 years ago may not be that usefull today. Just look at the difference between some of the early stuff Spielberger made on his own and some the later stuff that he made in cooperetion with Jentz and Doyle.

One thing I would do, if I did not have to work and had plenty of money, would be to explore (and copy) more primary sources and buy more manuals on various AFVs and weaponry. Such things form a solid backbone in your library against which you can check the varacity of secondary sources.
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Old 19 Dec 15, 13:55
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This might be useful to some.
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Old 19 Dec 15, 13:59
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On the British side, Hogg and Batchelor re considered experts in the field. I have an excellent general reference by B.T. White, as well. For German armor Doyle, Chamberlain and Jentz's Encyclopedia of German armor or World War Two is pretty definitive right down to numbers made, units using and so forth, as well as describing various one-off's, experimentals and proposed designs.

From my perspective, it all depends on how deep I feel I need to go. A good, accurate reference is usually all that is really needed, and all else proceeds from there, but for those who are really into the subject matter, as I am with early railroads, for example, the more references the better.

Since my interest in armor is personal rather than professional, I have a basic set on most subjects but not the really deep reference list of the scholarly and professional types. IOW, armor is only one of many of my interests rather than a primary one, so I allocate my funds accordingly.
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Old 19 Dec 15, 14:29
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Nick - Glad you pointed out Yeide. I also liked his work on TD's. I thought both were very informative.

Panther - What you've said about Baryatinsky is what I think about Zaloga. The two books of his that I have, Armored Thunderbolt and Armored Champion, could both be twice as long and I'd start to be happy.
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Old 20 Dec 15, 14:44
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A relative newcomer to the field seems to be P.M. Knight, whose books on the Covenanter and Crusader were excellent developmental and technical histories. His book on the Challenger is in line to read.
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Old 20 Dec 15, 14:48
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The A30 Challenger book has just been released here, funnily enough.

I'm more of a Sven Hassel/Leo Kessler man, myself.
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Old 20 Dec 15, 15:05
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Old 21 Dec 15, 14:00
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Here is a list of the most reputable Russian authors:

Mikhail Svirin
Mikhail Baryatinsky
Il'ya Moshchanski
Maksim Kolomiets
Aleksandr Lagutin
Igor' Zheltov
Mikhail Pavlov
I. Pavlov
Aleksei Makarov
Yuri Pasholok
Aleksei Isaev

note - The Pavlovs and tov.Zheltov write under the audspices of the Central Military Museum in Moscow.

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Old 24 Dec 15, 13:29
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Here is a list of the most reputable Russian authors:

Mikhail Svirin
Mikhail Baryatinsky
Il'ya Moshchanski
Maksim Kolomiets
Aleksandr Lagutin
Igor' Zheltov
Mikhail Pavlov
I. Pavlov
Aleksei Makarov
Yuri Pasholok
Aleksei Isaev

note - The Pavlovs and tov.Zheltov write under the audspices of the Central Military Museum in Moscow.

Regards
Scott Fraser
Good sources Scott. How many of these are available in english?
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