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  #16  
Old 18 Dec 15, 15:21
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The IJA would have quickly adopted captured weapons in this scenario. I could see them using AK's whenever possible. The same goes for captured RPG's and ATGM's.

Once the Japanese figure out that the ISIS tank crews will pretty much abandon a vehicle that is disabled if its under fire, all they need do is take a track off.
Also the Arab penchant for driving up an AFV then sitting in the open as a target / bunker doesn't argue well for the Japanese not figuring out how to take such vehicles out.

In an infantry fight the Type 89 grenade dischargers and 70mm battalion guns would come as a big surprise to the ISIS fighters. Both can pretty accurately land a round in a trench or fighting position, hit positions on reverse slopes, and such. That they can be hauled literally anywhere is another factor in their favor.

The Japanese also know how to use heavy machineguns for indirect and pre-aimed fire. That too could be vicious against enemy that has never experienced stuff like that.
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Old 18 Dec 15, 16:07
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I found a few quickie refs on ISIS -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_activity_of_ISIL
The variables are ... highly variable.

http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-...wn-2014-7?op=1

Firm numbers are lacking.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/small...ns-of-isis.asp
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Old 18 Dec 15, 17:01
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An interesting thing on the IJA TOE is that there is no mention of mortars. The Japanese were obsessed with all things mortars and artillery, and I would imagine they would have had at least a respectable number of 81-90mm mortars on hand to supplement the grenade dischargers and battalion guns. Even by 1945 a typical Japanese battalion (1000 rifles) was described as having between 36 and 49 mortars of all types attached to it.

Last edited by BobTheBarbarian; 18 Dec 15 at 17:09..
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Old 18 Dec 15, 17:46
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The Japanese really made limited use of mortars by comparison. The ones they had were often seen as interchangeable with their battalion guns.

The Type 89 grenade discharger has been described as a mortar. It really isn't. It's a substitute for rifle grenades, and really not a bad one in that respect.
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Old 18 Dec 15, 19:22
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How prevalent was the IJA at using captured equipment? I'd love to see the rising sun flying on a T-72 or BMP-2.
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Old 18 Dec 15, 19:34
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How prevalent was the IJA at using captured equipment? I'd love to see the rising sun flying on a T-72 or BMP-2.


Imagine those being T 55 and T 72 instead of Chinese Pz I...
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Old 18 Dec 15, 20:19
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Imagine those being T 55 and T 72 instead of Chinese Pz I...
I could imagine a highly trained and motivated IJA tank crew taking fast to the T-55, T-62, and T-72s abilities faster than a green jihadist. Then turning it quickly on ISIS without the horrible tactics they use tanks with.
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Old 18 Dec 15, 21:02
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Originally Posted by BobTheBarbarian View Post
An interesting thing on the IJA TOE is that there is no mention of mortars. The Japanese were obsessed with all things mortars and artillery, and I would imagine they would have had at least a respectable number of 81-90mm mortars on hand to supplement the grenade dischargers and battalion guns. Even by 1945 a typical Japanese battalion (1000 rifles) was described as having between 36 and 49 mortars of all types attached to it.
Quote:
- 457* grenade dischargers
Those are the infamous Japanese light mortars, whose name unfortunately translated into "Knee" mortar. The baseplate was curved in such a way to fit over the thigh, leading some Allied troopers to think they could fire captured ones from their leg when kneeling down.... no, this is what I read.
A few shattered femurs later and word got around, hopefully.

The baseplate is actually that shape so that you can jam it into the ground and make shifts in elevation by keeping a grip on the tube and muscling it around. This makes for a very rapid deployment to firing position, it was a great counter-ambush weapon.

But what I really would like to know is how many 90mm mortars I'd get, those were very nice weapons. Just imagine, a middle-weight mortar with its own recoil buffers!

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I could imagine a highly trained and motivated IJA tank crew taking fast to the T-55, T-62, and T-72s abilities faster than a green jihadist. Then turning it quickly on ISIS without the horrible tactics they use tanks with.
Well, more than AKs and tanks (the Akriska wsa a pretty good rifle with a vast range advantage over the AK) I would be interested in Machine Guns, first and foremost. Like the Italians, Japan never really solved its head-spacing issues, and its just a matter of time before an WW2 IJA Machine Gun lets you down.

But, with any of this stuff. using captures is going to lead to many headaches. ISIS has been living off captured stockpiles, and they are not known for logistical genius. It would be great if enough automatic weapons could be taken (and ammo for them) to put a IJA Squad on a more equal footing for short-range firepower vs an ISIS squad. A tank platoon with T-whatever seems like a pipe-dream.
I mean, few of them are good "runners", and to counter those that are would require the judicious use of massive amounts of high explosives. At the very least, the electrical components would be shattered, and I doubt ISIS has any parts bins just laying around.
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  #24  
Old 18 Dec 15, 21:33
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As a fyi the reason for a lack of arty for the Japanese was there lack of industrialization and they desire to maintain a large army.

In the 20 there was a plan to downsize the army and move to the triangle division

Some of the downsizing occurred but the superior morale side won in the long run and so spirit of the warrior was substituted for a lack of materials ie arty and other things.
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Old 18 Dec 15, 21:51
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The 90mm mortar is only found in separate mortar "regiments" and battalions. (Haugeki Rentai / Daitai) Both are basically the same:

820 O & EM, 414 rifles, 3 LMG, 36 90mm mortars and 115 motor vehicles (when mobile).

There is also a heavy mortar battalion with 12 150mm mortars. The mobility varies considerably depending on mission.

590 O & EM, 183 rifles, 12 150mm mortars 192 motor vehicles 198 horses.

These weapons were primarily intended for static warfare like sieges or defense. The 90mm can be used to deliver chemical munitions.

There were never many of these units. Two were encountered on Iwo Jima, four in the Philippines by US forces. There might have been 2 or 3 in China with the Kwantung Army.
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Old 18 Dec 15, 21:58
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Alright, according to John Norris' "Infantry mortars of World War II," the Japanese infantry division actually had no organic conventional mortars as part of its TOE. This role would be filled by the 70mm guns. However, an independent mortar battalion (36 81mm or presumably 90mm mortars) could be attached. These units had their own HQ, signal, observation, and transport elements and were completely self-sufficient. Interestingly enough, unlike the divisions IJA independent infantry brigades had two companies equipped with either artillery (75mm or 105mm) or mortars (150mm, 90mm, or 81mm).

EDIT: beaten to it on the first part ^
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Old 18 Dec 15, 23:08
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Quote:
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But, with any of this stuff. using captures is going to lead to many headaches. ISIS has been living off captured stockpiles, and they are not known for logistical genius. It would be great if enough automatic weapons could be taken (and ammo for them) to put a IJA Squad on a more equal footing for short-range firepower vs an ISIS squad. A tank platoon with T-whatever seems like a pipe-dream.
I mean, few of them are good "runners", and to counter those that are would require the judicious use of massive amounts of high explosives. At the very least, the electrical components would be shattered, and I doubt ISIS has any parts bins just laying around.
I'm sure the Russians or other Muslim states could help the IJA with replacement parts for their captured T's.
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Old 19 Dec 15, 00:17
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I'm sure the Russians or other Muslim states could help the IJA with replacement parts for their captured T's.
Lets ship that part. Take my word for it, outside involvement can turn any wargame into an absolute mess.
Or... lets make that a time-sensitive issue that limits the scope of the game. IJA has 4 weeks to win, or the rest of the world piles in. Seems like a reasonable time-frame to me.
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Old 19 Dec 15, 01:00
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The 81mm mortar was either a replacement for 75mm artillery or the 70mm battalion gun.

For the former, the Type 3 or Type 97 was issued. These were copies of the French Brandt original and very similar to US or German equivalents.



The later was the stubby Type 99was a substitute for the 70mm.



The only real difference is the Type 3/97 fires to about 3,000 meters while the Type 99 fires to only 1200. They all use the same ammunition.
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Old 19 Dec 15, 01:30
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Looks good, but I bet the shorty could burn your face off with the muzzle-flash!

I don't need to perfect this Division, or make it the very best one the IJA ever had. I'd prefer to have the hard-core men of 1942 than the gadgets of 1945.

However... is sure would be nice to have those 90mm mortars. That separate grouping must be what was shown on the previous page, under Bob's list of equipment.

I have a TO&E to work with, but it didn't have equipment, I think we're set with that.
The real ?-mark remains ISIS.
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