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  #1  
Old 27 Oct 15, 03:22
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Extreme EMP and You

The Sun released a massive coronial ejection and it has just struck the Earth over a period of about 35 hours. The entire planet has been subjected to a massive EMP effect that has wiped out all electronic systems worldwide. The power grid is down with no recovery time in sight. Distribution systems for electric power have suffered massive damage.

Don't expect help from the government or other public facilities. Nothing you own that is electronic works.

Given the resources you have where you are and the resources you have at hand, what would you do in this situation?
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  #2  
Old 04 Nov 15, 05:14
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Stay put, cook and purify water over an open fire, chat with the neighbours and so forth. The local electricity company is responsible for power distribution. It should have systems in place to cope with a massive EMP spike. As should the emergency services. The local supermarket will be dumping produce in a day or so - fresh meat and fruit. Major problem will be boredom and getting the toilet to flush.
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Old 08 Nov 15, 00:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broderickwells View Post
Stay put, cook and purify water over an open fire, chat with the neighbours and so forth. The local electricity company is responsible for power distribution. It should have systems in place to cope with a massive EMP spike. As should the emergency services. The local supermarket will be dumping produce in a day or so - fresh meat and fruit. Major problem will be boredom and getting the toilet to flush.
It really isn't that easy in many cases. For example, if you live in a high rise apartment building or condo you are screwed on water supply. Without pumps to fill the tank on the roof your water runs out in nothing flat.
Sewer service without running lift stations will soon start to back up and those on the lowest floors will get the benefits of indoor plumbing in reverse.

You live on say the 4th floor... no elevators now.

Urban dwellers of this sort also generally lack tools and equipment for self sufficiency. They know little or nothing of the building systems that they use daily.

For example, I live in a house and have considerable stuff to work with. I have an EMP proof portable generator (no electronics so once the pulse passes it will run), tool boxes full of tools, lanterns and lots of camping gear, chain saws and other power tools.
I own an EMP proof older vehicle and an EMP proof backhoe (no electronics in them).
Where I live cooling is a bigger issue than heat. My evaporative cooler is EMP proof low technology. I have swimming pool full of water to use to make up for loss of a municipal supply.

Where urbanites would be at a huge disadvantage, rural and even suburban dwellers like myself have an advantage in such situations. If the power isn't going to be restored for say several weeks...

I also don't have to worry nearly as much about my "neighbors" going into some looting mode...
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Old 08 Nov 15, 03:58
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"Despite rumors to the contrary, a Faraday cage is not necessary to protect against solar coronal mass ejections because the frequency content of such disturbances is at much lower frequencies—they don’t couple energy efficiently into small-scale electronics, except through conducted paths (e.g., wires coming into the system). A better precaution against solar events is to unplug electronics and use quality surge suppressors."

http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/bu...age-heres-how/
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Old 08 Nov 15, 20:31
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Here's some background matrial.

FERC EMP-GIC Metatech Reports
Quote:
The nation’s power grid is vulnerable to the effects of an electromagnetic pulse (EMP), a sudden burst of electromagnetic radiation resulting from a natural or man-made event. EMP events occur with little or no warning and can have catastrophic effects, including causing outages to major portions of the U.S. power grid possibly lasting for months or longer. Naturally occurring EMPs are produced as part of the normal cyclical activity of the sun while man-made EMPs, including Intentional Electromagnetic Interference (IEMI) devices and High Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse (HEMP), are produced by devices designed specifically to disrupt or destroy electronic equipment or by the detonation of a nuclear device high above the earth’s atmosphere. EMP threats have the potential to cause wide scale long-term losses with economic costs to the United States that vary with the magnitude of the event. The cost of damage from the most extreme solar event has been estimated at $1 to $2 trillion with a recovery time of four to ten years,1 while the average yearly cost of installing equipment to mitigate an EMP event is estimated at less than 20 cents per year for the average residential customer.
High-Impact, Low-Frequency Event Risk to the North American Bulk Power System
Quote:
Depending on the location and pattern of the geomagnetic disturbance, there are a number of plausible consequential outcomes for a severe geomagnetic storm of a strength roughly ten times what was observed in 1989. Metatech conducted a simulation based on a 4800 nT/min disturbance, shown in Figure 11 which calculated the pattern of GIC flows in the U.S. power grid and the boundaries of regions of power grid that could be subject to progressive collapse, such as what occurred to the Québec Interconnection in March 1989. The simulation results indicate that more than a thousand EHV transformers will have sufficient GIC levels to simultaneously be driven into saturation. Further, this would suddenly impose an increase of over 100,000 MVARs of reactive demand on the system, a scenario that could trigger a widespread voltage collapse, resulting in system instability and, likely, a short-duration blackout.61
The analysis also indicates that the GIC in over 350 transformers will exceed levels where the transformer is at risk of irreparable damage. Figure 12 provides an estimate of “Percent Loss” of EHV transformation capacity by state for the same 4800 nT/min threat environment. Such largescale damage could lead to prolonged restoration and long-term chronic shortages of electricity supply capability to the impacted regions, arguably for multiple years.
Special Reliability Assessment:
Interim Report Effects from Geomagnetic Disturbances on the Bulk Power System
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Old 08 Nov 15, 20:38
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Old 15 Nov 15, 04:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
It really isn't that easy in many cases. For example, if you live in a high rise apartment building or condo you are screwed on water supply. Without pumps to fill the tank on the roof your water runs out in nothing flat.
Sewer service without running lift stations will soon start to back up and those on the lowest floors will get the benefits of indoor plumbing in reverse.

You live on say the 4th floor... no elevators now.

Urban dwellers of this sort also generally lack tools and equipment for self sufficiency. They know little or nothing of the building systems that they use daily.

For example, I live in a house and have considerable stuff to work with. I have an EMP proof portable generator (no electronics so once the pulse passes it will run), tool boxes full of tools, lanterns and lots of camping gear, chain saws and other power tools.
I own an EMP proof older vehicle and an EMP proof backhoe (no electronics in them).
Where I live cooling is a bigger issue than heat. My evaporative cooler is EMP proof low technology. I have swimming pool full of water to use to make up for loss of a municipal supply.

Where urbanites would be at a huge disadvantage, rural and even suburban dwellers like myself have an advantage in such situations. If the power isn't going to be restored for say several weeks...

I also don't have to worry nearly as much about my "neighbors" going into some looting mode...
I live in a "bungalow", but I suspect our biggest problem will be sewage - the pumping station won't be working to haul that stuff away.
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Old 01 Dec 15, 01:25
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Water will be the tough part, and cleaning it. Using precious gas canisters to use a stove to sterilize it isn't efficient either. Need a rocket stove and a way to make charcoal quickly and efficiently. Double retort to burn waste wood to make charcoal. Capture the wood gas to use to cook and heat. Possibly even to run a propane gas truck. Could still my own urine and whatever non-potable liquid sources there are around. Got lots of sun where I'm at. Would build two solar hoophouses dug into the ground. North wall would hold barrels of water with curved pipes extending from them onto ground in front facing south. Cover with clear material that can last a long time and capture solar heat. One hoophouse is for living and one for growing. Would build a compost for my waste. Would keep it hot. Then use it for the plants.
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Old 01 Dec 15, 07:26
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There is a book on such a subject, called: "ONE SECOND AFTER" by William R. Forstchen. From my understanding it is well written and is being considered as a television miniseries. One of the things that is written about are the massive and successive "die-offs" which occur.

Ted Koppel has a book just released called "LIGHTS OUT" in which he explains the vulnerability of the outdated electrical grid.

I would suspect the cities populations to spill into the country side, eating anything they could find. The descent towards cannibalism would be a very real threat. Given the obesity rate, I imagine there are some that would appear to others as delicious over a spit with an apple in their mouth.

The film "The Road" (2009) with Viggo Mortensen deals with this scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
For example, I live in a house and have considerable stuff to work with. I have an EMP proof portable generator (no electronics so once the pulse passes it will run), tool boxes full of tools, lanterns and lots of camping gear, chain saws and other power tools.
I own an EMP proof older vehicle and an EMP proof backhoe (no electronics in them).
Where I live cooling is a bigger issue than heat. My evaporative cooler is EMP proof low technology. I have swimming pool full of water to use to make up for loss of a municipal supply.
Unless you live in the isolation of the wild Boondocks....you're still screwed. Anyone having any type of device or machine that still works after a scenario like the one you propose, is going to become an instant target once they realize what you have. It's best to be as inconspicuous as possible. Travel by bike or waterway would better.
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Old 01 Dec 15, 12:07
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If anyone is interested, you can get a Biolite stove which uses wood but can also charge small batteries (leds and phones). It's pretty useful in general although don't know if it'd survive an NEMP pulse (maybe in an F-cage).

BIOLITE STOVE

Reading that Forstchen book and have the Koppel on standby; but it's really similar to Dean Ings stuff from decades ago about how to survive a nuclear war. I wonder if it's a cultural thing or a social thing about how humans survive losing everything; sort of like Swiss Family Robinson or Robinson Crusoe for the modern era. Personally, I like the 'The Martian' style stuff the best; the doom and gloom set can be really depressing and angst-ridden.
The Road was really depressing but then Cormac McCarthys' stuff is often the stuff of Irish-Catholic nightmares

Last edited by boomer400; 01 Dec 15 at 13:22..
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Old 05 Dec 16, 00:19
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The first thing I would do is get on my bike and ride to the national guard armory and hook myself up with as many guns and ammo as i can carry. There are lots things to forage around here from wild onions, dandy lion leaves, pine tree bark and kudzu. a BB gun would be used to hunt squirrel, you could also kill geese and take the eggs and start farming them. I would try to get together my community and try to establish things for this brave new world.
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Old 05 Dec 16, 12:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis of Evil View Post
The first thing I would do is get on my bike and ride to the national guard armory and hook myself up with as many guns and ammo as i can carry. There are lots things to forage around here from wild onions, dandy lion leaves, pine tree bark and kudzu. a BB gun would be used to hunt squirrel, you could also kill geese and take the eggs and start farming them. I would try to get together my community and try to establish things for this brave new world.
You better learn safe cracking or bring one with you. Armories at National Guard and Reserve centers are like bank vaults...
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Old 05 Dec 16, 13:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis of Evil View Post
The first thing I would do is get on my bike and ride to the national guard armory and hook myself up with as many guns and ammo as i can carry. There are lots things to forage around here from wild onions, dandy lion leaves, pine tree bark and kudzu. a BB gun would be used to hunt squirrel, you could also kill geese and take the eggs and start farming them. I would try to get together my community and try to establish things for this brave new world.
Guns yes, ammo, doubtful.

Little know fact is that armories, Reserve and NG, usually have only a few(literally) rounds per personnel assigned.
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I live near the Great Lakes for a reason. Got a nice big sailboat and lots of islands.

Remember the rule of threes

Three seconds you can bleed to death.
Three minutes you can suffocate
The hours and you can die from hypothermia or hyperthermia.
Three days without water and your dead or dying.
Three weeks without food and you're a goner.

So stay warm or cool and find water.
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Old 08 Dec 16, 19:22
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Of course, the other problem is that lots of people these days have better firearms than the military gets issued...
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