HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Military/History Related Hobbies > Alternate Timelines > Xtreme Alternate History

Notices and Announcements

Xtreme Alternate History Alternatives to History with No Holds Barred!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15 Jul 15, 13:19
Draco's Avatar
Draco Draco is offline
Lieutenant General
Mexico
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Morelia, Mexico
Posts: 3,327
Draco is on the path to success [1-99] Draco is on the path to success [1-99] Draco is on the path to success [1-99]
Nonstop around the world in an updated Flyer I

The Wright Flyer I represents one of the greatest achievements. She lifted 745 lb lb with 12 hp, despite inefficient chains & sprockets and enormous drag from wires, struts, etc,
Using the same hp and TOW, an efficient pressurized, high wing loading, very fast, long range plane can be made using modern materials, engines, etc,

The plane is designed to fly at 36.000 ft, where drag is 1/4 that at sea level and the jet stream provides tail winds exceeding 100 mph.

There are two titanium, 6 hp, liquid cooled, piston engines operating at high pressure and temperature. Engine and supercharger heat is used to keep the pilot warm and the wings free of ice, so there is absolutely no cooling drag (which amounted to 20 % of Voyager's drag). The 4 blade propellers operate at 250 rpm (instead of the 2 blade props of the Flyer I at 350 rpm). A gearbox is used to reduce propeller rpm. A two stage, intercooled supercharger provides compressed air for the engines at high altitude.
The plane has over 143 lb of thrust, compared to 130 lb of the Flyer I.

There are 2 equal, tandem, extruded duralumin wings with a total wing area of 16 ft2 (actual wing area, excluding fuselage width), so that wing loading is 46.6 lb/ft2 and the plane has 31.9 times smaller wing area than the Flyer I.

The pilot weighs 100 lb and has provisions for 3.5 days.

The plane takes off with 300 lb of fuel in four 75 lb wingtip tanks. This plane produces twice the lb thrust/hp of Voyager, has 75% higher wing loading, encounters half as much drag as Voyager at altitude (higher air speed) and stronger tail winds so she completes the journey within 4 days, as opposed to 9 and flies above the weather. She has 23.4 times less fuel than Voyager. She has over 100 times less drag than the Flyer I and about 31 times less drag and 13 times lower TOW than Voyager and about 10 times less thrust than Voyager. Surprisingly, she has about 33% higher thrust/TOW than Voyager (higher acceleration), despite the tiny engines.

TO speed is about 135 mph in a shorter run than Voyager's (which was exceedingly long because she had low acceleration, a negative attitude and scraped her wingtips).

The light undercarriage is jettisoned upon TO. The plane lands using a parachute (she only weighs about 455 lb after burning almost all the fuel.
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 15 Jul 15, 14:27
sebfrench76's Avatar
sebfrench76 sebfrench76 is online now
General of the Forums
France
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Rouen,Normandy
Posts: 7,406
sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] sebfrench76 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
"I believe I can flyyy,I believe I can touch the skyyyy.."
The notions of aeronautics that you employ were just unknown in 1903.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 15 Jul 15, 15:39
T. A. Gardner's Avatar
T. A. Gardner T. A. Gardner is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: T. A. Gardner
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 34,386
T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
When Draco builds it and flies it around the world, I'll believe it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 15 Jul 15, 17:18
TacCovert4's Avatar
TacCovert4 TacCovert4 is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Nick
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Here and there
Posts: 14,603
TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] TacCovert4 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Considering the original was built by bike mechanics, I'd say he should give it a shot
__________________
Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 15 Jul 15, 17:32
T. A. Gardner's Avatar
T. A. Gardner T. A. Gardner is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: T. A. Gardner
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 34,386
T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Of course then again...



Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 15 Jul 15, 18:28
johns624's Avatar
johns624 johns624 is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Detroit
Posts: 9,348
johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
He forgot about the weight of the oxygen tanks. Humans cannot survive at 36K feet without oxygen.
What would be its stall speed at that altitude? I know that airliners have a very narrow band of airspeed at that altitude.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 15 Jul 15, 18:36
The Doctor's Avatar
The Doctor The Doctor is offline
General of the Forums
Pirate
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Dave
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 46,596
The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by johns624 View Post
He forgot about the weight of the oxygen tanks. Humans cannot survive at 36K feet without oxygen.
What would be its stall speed at that altitude? I know that airliners have a very narrow band of airspeed at that altitude.
The stall speed with or without O2?


Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 15 Jul 15, 18:39
T. A. Gardner's Avatar
T. A. Gardner T. A. Gardner is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: T. A. Gardner
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 34,386
T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
The stall speed with or without O2?


African or European?

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 15 Jul 15, 19:23
The Doctor's Avatar
The Doctor The Doctor is offline
General of the Forums
Pirate
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Dave
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 46,596
The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
African or European?

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 24 Jul 15, 13:29
johns624's Avatar
johns624 johns624 is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Detroit
Posts: 9,348
johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
I may be jinxing us, but Draco has been gone for nine days and I'm taking credit for it! He'd gotten used to being picked to pieces by really knowledgeable people like TAG and DS, but when an idiot like myself found a basic flaw in his story that he couldn't explain, he couldn't handle it anymore. I hope he didn't do anything rash...
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 24 Jul 15, 14:36
grishnak's Avatar
grishnak grishnak is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
EU
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Real Name: john
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 1,295
grishnak is on the path to success [1-99] grishnak is on the path to success [1-99] grishnak is on the path to success [1-99] grishnak is on the path to success [1-99] grishnak is on the path to success [1-99] grishnak is on the path to success [1-99]
His mother has probably rescinded his internet privileges for ceaselessly talking nonsense.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 24 Jul 15, 15:10
T. A. Gardner's Avatar
T. A. Gardner T. A. Gardner is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: T. A. Gardner
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 34,386
T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
It could be powered by...

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 24 Dec 15, 21:11
johns624's Avatar
johns624 johns624 is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Detroit
Posts: 9,348
johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Quote:
Originally Posted by johns624 View Post
He forgot about the weight of the oxygen tanks. Humans cannot survive at 36K feet without oxygen.
What would be its stall speed at that altitude? I know that airliners have a very narrow band of airspeed at that altitude.
Draco, we're still waiting for your response? It's been months, now. Or are you still hiding because you can't figure it out?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 24 Dec 15, 22:43
Dracoco's Avatar
Dracoco Dracoco is offline
First Lieutenant
Mexico
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Morelia
Posts: 572
Dracoco has a little shameless behaviour in the past [-1 to -99]
The opening statement specifies a pressurized cabin.

Airliners have much higher wing loadings & a lot of wingtip & tail drag, so they stall much more easily.

Last edited by Dracoco; 24 Dec 15 at 22:53..
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 25 Dec 15, 11:13
Dracoco's Avatar
Dracoco Dracoco is offline
First Lieutenant
Mexico
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Morelia
Posts: 572
Dracoco has a little shameless behaviour in the past [-1 to -99]
The Flyer I produced 130 lb of thrust with 12 hp & hand carved props, Rutan's Voyager produced 1,400 lb of thrust with 238 hp & Roncz airfoil, CNC machined, aluminum props. Which propulsion system is higher tech & deserves to be emulated for a long distance flight?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:20.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.