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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Military/History Related Hobbies > Alternate Timelines > Xtreme Alternate History

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Xtreme Alternate History Alternatives to History with No Holds Barred!

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  #61  
Old 25 Jun 15, 15:58
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Perhaps after seeing German forces along a long border and the bonanza in the DEI and Holland, in 1941 Belgium would apply for annexation to the Reich or perhaps it would build more formidable fortresses like Eben Emael (with part of the garrison living in a town outside the fortress) along the rest of the border.
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  #62  
Old 25 Jun 15, 16:02
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Originally Posted by Draco View Post
Perhaps after seeing German forces along a long border and the bonanza in the DEI and Holland, in 1941 Belgium would apply for annexation to the Reich or perhaps it would build more formidable fortresses like Eben Emael (with part of the garrison living in a town outside the fortress) along the rest of the border.
Like these I suppose...



We beat you over the head on this subject about a year ago.

And, the Germans spent several weeks and a lot of ammunition taking them:




Last edited by Colonel Sennef; 26 Jun 15 at 05:24.. Reason: added spoiler for stability
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  #63  
Old 25 Jun 15, 20:21
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I suppose You think it makes sense to spend billions and years building something that can be bypassed or fall in days, weeks or even months like the Maginot and the Atlantic wall. Even the extremely strong defenses in Kiev and Sevastopol, far more formidable than anything in the W, fell in months and Sevatopol took 8 months only because most of the time Manstein didn't have planes and faced naval guns along with the fortification's turrets.

Those fortifications cover a small part of the border with Germany (including Holland) in this scenario, so they are useless, unless a much larger complex is built. And even then, they're useless to stop a determined invasion.

I can imagine the bleeding ears and eyes of the survivors in the damaged fortification pictured. The Germans pretended to attack all over Holland and Belgium, while their tanks advanced through the Ardennes (right around the fortifications that impress You) and defeated the allies and the same would happen if you have fortifications all the way to the Atantic.
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  #64  
Old 25 Jun 15, 22:14
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Originally Posted by Draco View Post
I suppose You think it makes sense to spend billions and years building something that can be bypassed or fall in days, weeks or even months like the Maginot and the Atlantic wall. Even the extremely strong defenses in Kiev and Sevastopol, far more formidable than anything in the W, fell in months and Sevatopol took 8 months only because most of the time Manstein didn't have planes and faced naval guns along with the fortification's turrets.
It did at the time as the fortifications cover the area between the Dutch border and the Ardennes, considered difficult to cross by an organized army.
As it was, the Liege fortifications held out almost to the defeat of France and made the German advance into Belgium difficult.

Quote:
Those fortifications cover a small part of the border with Germany (including Holland) in this scenario, so they are useless, unless a much larger complex is built. And even then, they're useless to stop a determined invasion.
Look at a map before making a fool of yourself. The Germans were forced to come up with a means of defeating Eben Emael and flanking the Liege fortifications. That is the sole justification the Germans had for invading Holland. If the Liege forts weren't there, the Germans had no reason to invade Holland and likely wouldn't have bothered.

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I can imagine the bleeding ears and eyes of the survivors in the damaged fortification pictured. The Germans pretended to attack all over Holland and Belgium, while their tanks advanced through the Ardennes (right around the fortifications that impress You) and defeated the allies and the same would happen if you have fortifications all the way to the Atantic.
You have the imagination of a six year old... The Germans didn't "pretend to attack Holland and Belgium" they attacked both countries in strength. One of the largest tank battles of the French campaign took place in Belgium at Hannut.
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  #65  
Old 26 Jun 15, 13:18
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You miss the plan completely. The sole justification for the invasion of Holland was to draw the idiots' best forces far N, while Guderian cut them off. The fortifications were as pointless as the Maginot, Siegfried, Atlantic wall, etc,
Even the German advance towards Gembloux was premature and gratuitous. Had it been delayed, more forces and further N would have been caught.
The LW wisely did not attack the allied thrust N. The Wehrmacht advanced prematurely. Otherwise, the allies would never have made it back to Dunkirk.

Alexander, Sun Tsu, Spartacus, Caesar, Attila, etc, 2 millenia ago, Genghis, Tamerlain, etc, a millenium ago knew that fortifications were for idiots. Yet You don't.

Last edited by Draco; 26 Jun 15 at 14:17..
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  #66  
Old 26 Jun 15, 16:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
You miss the plan completely. The sole justification for the invasion of Holland was to draw the idiots' best forces far N, while Guderian cut them off. The fortifications were as pointless as the Maginot, Siegfried, Atlantic wall, etc,
Even the German advance towards Gembloux was premature and gratuitous. Had it been delayed, more forces and further N would have been caught.
The LW wisely did not attack the allied thrust N. The Wehrmacht advanced prematurely. Otherwise, the allies would never have made it back to Dunkirk.
Have you read anything on the French campaign? Because the above indicates you haven't.

Quote:
Alexander, Sun Tsu, Spartacus, Caesar, Attila, etc, 2 millenia ago, Genghis, Tamerlain, etc, a millenium ago knew that fortifications were for idiots. Yet You don't.
Really? Have you read... No, you haven't...
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