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  #46  
Old 28 May 15, 19:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheBarbarian View Post
Good God, please let this be a troll...

You can't be serious.
Only an ignorant, dumb man would waste excellent armies in Egypt, the near east, Haiti, Spain and Russia, the navies of France and all its subjects and allies and give away his second most valuable asset (after his subjects), Louisiana for peanuts. He became famous only because he defeated even dumber commanders, usually with terrible losses.
Subutai succeeded with small forces in a shorter time, where he failed with a 1/2 million men.
It is interesting that Genghis made sure that his commanders were at least as good as he was. In contrast, Napoleon's generals often lost when on their own, as when old Suvorov kicked their butts. Had he not been abandoned by the Austrians, Suvorov would have beaten the French back to their country.

Last edited by Draco; 28 May 15 at 19:24..
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  #47  
Old 28 May 15, 21:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
Nebfer,
I already explained that the 3 allies get together in the Spring to plan and prepare to defeat Germany in case of an invasion of Poland.

The only way to guarantee supplies to Poland, wipe out the KM and deny Germany access to raw materials, Bofors guns, Soviet grain, etc, through the Baltic is for the allies to take extremely weak and nearby Denmark and the Dutch coast on the first day of the invasion, rapidly land planes and troops there.

The combined allied navy, air force and army are enormous. Landing 2 allied divisions on the first day along the long Danish peninsula and an additional division in the islands is no problem for the allies. Landing 2 more divisions in the Dutch coast to secure airfields and ports is also quite feasible.

Hitler loses several war and cargo ships on the first day to Polish Swordfish, has a large allied fleet in the Baltic and has to decide whether to declare war on Britain and France, rapidly lose the KM, fight on several fronts and be bombed from several airfields in the continent and Britain. On the morning of 2 Sept the allies land in the Baltic countries, guaranteeing supplies and Finnish reinforcements for Poland and the Polish air force is receiving twin engine planes from Denmark and fighters launched from carriers and unloaded crated in the Baltic countries.

Poland's situation looks better every hour and Germany's bleaker. Every hour Hitler delays a war declaration on Britain and France, the allies become stronger around Germany, but if he declares war with his forces in Poland, he will certainly lose.

Raeder would either have a heart attack or shoot himself when he sees allied troops and planes in Denmark and the French and royal navies in the Baltic.

The already poor discipline and performance of the German troops in Poland (as reported by WM generals) deteriorates as the Polish air force becomes stronger, the Polish army begins to deploy Matildas and heavy French tanks against the light WM tanks, Finnish troops begin to appear and LW support weakens.

The question is not why invade Denmark (which opens the Baltic and closes traffic from Norway)?, it is why the hell they didn't invade it to threaten Germany and save Poland? Why the 2 mighty nations did absolutely nothing while Poland fell and then waited months to invade with a poor plan distant and frigid Norway, while Hitler easily invaded Denmark? The answer is poor strategy.

Even supplying a Polish division to land from Britain in Denmark is much wiser for Poland in order to ensure control of the Baltic, planes, supplies and reinforcements than to leave a huge army isolated in Poland completely without supplies and reinforcements


I donít know why Iím getting messed up in this but what the yell. The WM () would love to see those few good (at least I would hope that they used good) divisions thrown ashore in Denmark so that they (Germany) could look like the good guys coming to the aid of a small country that is being brutally invaded by the Allies without even a declaration of war. The same with an invasion of Holland.
As for the Allied fleet in the Baltic how long will it last without bases, supplies or repair facilities which is the condition it will find itself in after Germany rescues Denmark?
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  #48  
Old 29 May 15, 00:25
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I am sure Hitler would have also loved to liberate neutral Iceland from the British invaders. He just couldn't.

It's really difficult for Germany to invade by land the long, narrow Danish peninsula, and the Dutch coast against a strong fleet and w/o a fleet in the Atlantic, especially when it is fighting a well supplied Poland and facing a huge French army with a few German divisions in the South and facing French troops in the Romanian-Polish border and is not receiving supplies from Sweden or the USSR.

Paratroopers worked well against Danish Policemen and Norwegian troops but will not do very well against planes, naval guns and tanks and well armed troops.

The chances of a Polish division with heavy naval and air support stopping a German advance involving a few hastily deployed divisions at most along the narrow peninsula are much greater than the chances of the same division stopping a massive, long prepared German offensive by the bulk of the WM, along a humongous front, with German armor and dominion of the air and w/o any supplies and reinforcements.

Invading Denmark and Holland against modern, strong forces while fighting in Poland and not receiving supplies is much more difficult for Germany than invading first Poland and months later Denmark and Norway against ridiculous forces when it is not fighting anywhere and is receiving supplies from Sweden, the USSR, etc,

Germany wasted enormous amounts of bombs, shells, etc, destroying useless Polish towns, cities, etc, on the first days of the invasion and by the time Stalin attacked Poland, Germany had little munitions left.
Fighting in several fronts Germany would run out of munitions even faster.

The simple facts that Poland is receiving supplies, reinforcement and some Swordfish, Hurricanes, MS.406s and twin engine bombers makes a huge difference on the morale of the Polish and German troops.

One of the biggest allied mistakes of the war was allowing Germany to control the Baltic from the first day until 1945.

The Baltic is quite close to Britain, France and Norway, much more so than the S Atlantic, where the RN operated regularly, so operating in it is a piece of cake.
The first thing the allies would do upon occupying Denmark and the Dutch coast is to establish bases there in the numerous ports.

With the allies controlling Denmark and the Dutch coast and heavily patrolling the short German coast, the few U-boats in the Atlantic on 1 Sept, 1939 would only be able to refuel in Spain if at all and have no access to German ports, spares, torpedoes, etc,

Last edited by Draco; 29 May 15 at 00:41..
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  #49  
Old 01 Jun 15, 18:50
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Without Germany being able to receive any Bofors guns, the allies can buy them all and deploy them in Poland, Holland and Denmark, so that the allies have better AAA and air force every day, as the Germans counter parts grow weaker. The poles turn the 40 mm gun into an excellent AT gun for light tanks.

The Poles are also receiving abundant French 25 mm Hotchkiss and British AT guns (quite maneuverable and effective againg the abundant, light German tanks), 75 mm guns and ammo, American H-75, Buffaloes, Hudsons, MGs, Tommy guns, 60 mm mortars, etc, paid by France. So that a few French, British and Finnish divisions greatly boost the well equipped Polish army.

While Poland is receiving plenty of food from Australia, Argentina, Canada, France, etc, German food reserves dwindle rapidly as the blockade is quite efective against Germany with the allies in Denmark, Holland, Lithuania & Romania. Prize allied cargo ships captured by raiders and subs cannot dock in any German port.

As Gemran morale crumbles and prisoners are treated well by the allies, more and more German troops surrender.

Last edited by Draco; 01 Jun 15 at 18:55..
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  #50  
Old 23 Jun 15, 01:38
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The Poles also receive 24 Defiants, which they turn into decent fighters by removing the turret system and rear seat and installing 4 MGs on the wings. Even 48 Battles given to the Poles are converted into useful, single seat fighters by clipping their wings.

With Germany stalled in Poland and invaded from France and Denmark and losing planes, tanks and troops faster than it can replace them, Stalin knows the W is safe and sends a large force to the E during the autumn and winter, In May 1940 the USSR invades Manchuria to assist China and deprive Japan of most of its minerals and food and part of its industry. Stalin invades Manchuria with 2 million men and 10,000 tanks and planes and sends 2,000 planes and tanks and 5,000 fieldguns with crews to reinforce the Chinese army in order to fight the Japanese over a wide front, which they cannot sustain.

Japan is overwhelmed by the huge Chinese army boosted by Soviet armor, planes and artillery and by the huge Soviet army, so Manchuria falls in 3 months and the Japanese army in China is wiped out. The few remaining IJA forces withdraw to Korea and Japan has to sue for peace, since it doesn't want to lose Korea and cannot continue fighting without Manchurian resources.
While Japan is fighting China and the USSR, Britain, Holland and France send a large fleet to the Pacific and when it is ready to strike, they declare war on Japan and invade Formosa, depriving Japan of valuable resources, bases and income. Dutch, French, British and Soviet subs, land based planes in China, the USSR and occupied Manchuria, RN carrier planes, allied warships and mines devastate the IJN, so that Japan has to sue for peace.

Germany and Japan were stopped in their tracks after losing over a milllion troops each, before they became stronger with resources from conquered territories. Germany lost E Prussia, etc, to Poland. Japan lost Manchuria and Formosa. Germany is force to pay reparations to Poland and Japan is force to pay reparations to China. So the German and Japanese economies are set back considerably.

The USSR gained considerable territory, agricultural capacity and fighting experience in Manchuria.

Poland remained independent and gained E Prussia, etc, Finland secured invaluable mutual assistance treaties with Poland, Britain and France.

Britain and France maintained the stability in Europe and Asia and gained Formosa.
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Old 23 Jun 15, 03:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
Without Germany being able to receive any Bofors guns, the allies can buy them all and deploy them in Poland, Holland and Denmark, so that the allies have better AAA and air force every day, as the Germans counter parts grow weaker. The poles turn the 40 mm gun into an excellent AT gun for light tanks.
Why would Germany not be able to receive any? Krupp owns one third of Bofors as a company.

Quote:
The Poles are also receiving abundant French 25 mm Hotchkiss and British AT guns (quite maneuverable and effective againg the abundant, light German tanks), 75 mm guns and ammo, American H-75, Buffaloes, Hudsons, MGs, Tommy guns, 60 mm mortars, etc, paid by France. So that a few French, British and Finnish divisions greatly boost the well equipped Polish army.
Except the 25mm AT gun was in short supply. The French couldn't even equip their own forces fully with it. The British found the weapon too flimsy for vehicle towing leading to one of the first uses of porte transportation instead.
Yes, the British had been issued some in a show of cross equipping their army with some French weapons. The British commanders found the gun to be a poor weapon compared to the 2 pdr.
One reason the French and other nations didn't buy the Thompson prior to WW 2 was the weapon was relatively expensive.
Poland already uses the French 75 M1897 gun as a field piece.

Quote:
While Poland is receiving plenty of food from Australia, Argentina, Canada, France, etc, German food reserves dwindle rapidly as the blockade is quite efective against Germany with the allies in Denmark, Holland, Lithuania & Romania. Prize allied cargo ships captured by raiders and subs cannot dock in any German port.
How is Poland receiving anything by sea? Given that their access to the Baltic is a single city and barely that, the first thing that happens in a war with Germany is all sea commerce ceases.
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  #52  
Old 23 Jun 15, 20:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
Why would Germany not be able to receive any? Krupp owns one third of Bofors as a company.
It's also not like the Germans have their own useable 37mm AA guns.

Quote:
How is Poland receiving anything by sea? Given that their access to the Baltic is a single city and barely that, the first thing that happens in a war with Germany is all sea commerce ceases.
Becuse Poland has been given a few dozen torpedobombers, who extensively trained in anti ship attacks (Day an night) and has sunk all of the German ships on the first day(s). Which Germany some how managed to miss them with their extensive scheduled...
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  #53  
Old 24 Jun 15, 11:12
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TAG,
Germany cannot get Bofors guns physically (even if they owned Bofors 100%) from Sweden to Germany, because the allies control Denmark, the Baltic, the Baltic contries and Poland.
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  #54  
Old 24 Jun 15, 14:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
TAG,
Germany cannot get Bofors guns physically (even if they owned Bofors 100%) from Sweden to Germany, because the allies control Denmark, the Baltic, the Baltic contries and Poland.
Sure they can. They could build their own factory if they wanted to, but they can purchase them from MAVAG in Hungary who got a license to make the 4 cm gun in 1935 and manufactured 430 for Hungary and another 220 for Germany.
It isn't like the Germans don't have some 4cm Flak 28 (that's the German designation) pre-war.

So, once again, you are wrong. The Germans had 4cm Flak 28 guns in inventory in small numbers pre-war. Krupp owns sufficient stock in Bofors that licensing production would be a cinch, assuming the Germans even want the gun.
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  #55  
Old 24 Jun 15, 15:50
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Germany has no time to make planes, tanks, etc, much less to build factories.
Hungary's production is ridiculous compared to Bofors and with French troops in Romania, Hungary is weak (the 2nd Vienna award has not taken place and will not take place, so Romania is much stronger and allied to France, not Germany) and is more likely to sell to the allies also. Germany is much too busy to invade Hungary (fighting in Denmark, E. Prussia, Poland and Germany) and has less gold than Britain, Poland and France.
Romania can easily take more of Transylvania with allied approval, should Hungary cooperate with Germany, instead of with the allies
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  #56  
Old 24 Jun 15, 15:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
Germany has no time to make planes, tanks, etc, much less to build factories.
Hungary's production is ridiculous compared to Bofors and with French troops in Romania, Hungary is weak (the 2nd Vienna award has not taken place and will not take place, so Romania is much stronger and allied to France, not Germany) and is more likely to sell to the allies also. Germany is much too busy to invade Hungary (fighting in Denmark, E. Prussia, Poland and Germany) and has less gold than Britain, Poland and France.
Romania can easily take more of Transylvania with allied approval, should Hungary cooperate with Germany, instead of with the allies
Blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada. More red herrings.

You stated Germany couldn't get 4 cm bofors guns. I proved they could even with your insane scenario.
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  #57  
Old 24 Jun 15, 22:21
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Again, the number of guns from Hungary is ridiculous and why would Hungary part with the very few guns it is making for itself and antagonize a very strong France, Britain and Poland and open itself to attack by a very strong Romania (leaving itself w/o AAA) to supply a weak Germany, which cannot afford to attack or help Hungary and which doesn't stand a chance in hell against the plane factories of Britain, France and the US and thousands of Polish, French and British pilots?
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  #58  
Old 24 Jun 15, 23:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
Again, the number of guns from Hungary is ridiculous and why would Hungary part with the very few guns it is making for itself and antagonize a very strong France, Britain and Poland and open itself to attack by a very strong Romania (leaving itself w/o AAA) to supply a weak Germany, which cannot afford to attack or help Hungary and which doesn't stand a chance in hell against the plane factories of Britain, France and the US and thousands of Polish, French and British pilots?
What? History is wrong? The Germans didn't buy 220 4cm Flak 28? These guys all say you are full of ....

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=8304
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  #59  
Old 24 Jun 15, 23:23
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I did not see anything about Hungary in the posts on the page qo which You referred me. We are talking about Sept 1939, long before Germany had access to the captured Polish & Dutch guns mentioned and when Hungary is terrified of Romania, which hasnīt lost Transylvania to Hungary (under German and Italain pressure) or Bessaravia & Bukovina to the USSR in 1940. So this is a very strong Romania boosted by French troops and with a srong Poland, which would be quite angry if Hungary supplied anything to Germany, especially AAA. It would be suicidal for Hungary to part with its limited AAA in the face of Romania, eager to acquire more of Transylvania.
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Old 25 Jun 15, 02:00
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Why must we continually do your homework for you? You know so little about any subject you bring up it's pathetic. You do no real research and seem stunned when everything you propose turns out to be impossible fantasy.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...?f=70&t=111469
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