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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > Ukrainian Crisis

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Ukrainian Crisis Discuss the unfolding crisis in Ukraine.

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  #16  
Old 07 Apr 15, 10:27
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Originally Posted by Khepesh View Post
Not surprising that you immediately swing to the extreme and suggest Russian invasion, where I have simply posted about what Odessa and Odessites are. A pity that no so called "supporter" of Ukraine gives a damn about the actual people of Novorossiya, of what they see themselves as, as what they want, only of what Kiev and it's backers say they are. You go there and tell them what they are, tell them that you, on an internet forum, have decided who they are simply to serve your purposes here.
By the way, where are you living now and what ethnic group are YOU from?

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  #17  
Old 07 Apr 15, 10:30
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Well to be fair, I'd be all for an independent republic of Odessa,

just like I'd fully support the Kingdom Crimea - or The Confederation of Novorussyia,

but that's not in the cards is it - I wonder why - could it be the Big Bad Bear of the Tundra ?
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  #18  
Old 07 Apr 15, 10:40
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Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
By the way, where are you living now and what ethnic group are YOU from?

Pruitt
Russian from Krasnodar. And what is YOUR ethnicity and reason to be interested in Ukraine, do you have any valid reason other than use the situation as an excuse to shout at Russia. Are YOU interested in the people, all of them, not just the Galicians.
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  #19  
Old 07 Apr 15, 10:44
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Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
Well to be fair, I'd be all for an independent republic of Odessa,

just like I'd fully support the Kingdom Crimea - or The Confederation of Novorussyia,

but that's not in the cards is it - I wonder why - could it be the Big Bad Bear of the Tundra ?
You suggest you know the "cunning plan". Russia has shown no interest in anything other than Crimea, and it is not really in Russia's interests to move the border to Moldova. You cannot say there will not be a Novorossiya, either as joint DNR/LNR or slightly bigger, as a nation state as you do not know, and neither do I.
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  #20  
Old 07 Apr 15, 10:50
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Originally Posted by Khepesh View Post
You suggest you know the "cunning plan". Russia has shown no interest in anything other than Crimea, and it is not really in Russia's interests to move the border to Moldova. You cannot say there will not be a Novorossiya, either as joint DNR/LNR or slightly bigger, as a nation state as you do not know, and neither do I.
Point being - that there's no reason to rule Odessa from Moscow anymore than there's a reason to rule it from Kiev.

Plenty of hamsters of on the Tundra that like to pretend to be bears.
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  #21  
Old 07 Apr 15, 10:57
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Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
Point being - that there's no reason to rule Odessa from Moscow anymore than there's a reason to rule it from Kiev.

Plenty of hamsters of on the Tundra that like to pretend to be bears.
Plenty of hamsters, and worse, on these forums, and nobody is suggesting Odessa is ruled from Moscow, it is from Kiev and it's backers that we read all this as propaganda.
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  #22  
Old 07 Apr 15, 11:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
Khepesh, first you make a claim that Odessa is Russian because most of the people living there in 1897 were "Russian". When someone else points out the ethnic Russians are now less than the ethic Ukrainians in 2001, that should not count? Then two of you guys claim there are no ethnic Ukrainians? These are some strange claims. Good luck on trying to make this all seem logical.

Pruitt
Claiming that there is some ethnic Ukrainians is like claiming htat htere is ethnic Americans (native Americans excluded) or that there is ethnic Belgians. As a nation and citizenship they exist but as ehtnic group they do not.
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  #23  
Old 07 Apr 15, 11:14
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Originally Posted by Khepesh View Post
Plenty of hamsters, and worse, on these forums, and nobody is suggesting Odessa is ruled from Moscow, it is from Kiev and it's backers that we read all this as propaganda.
I've seen maps around here with pretty colours that suggest otherwise.
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  #24  
Old 07 Apr 15, 11:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
...
By the way, I like Ukrainians. I have worked with several over the years.
...
It's all a nightmare.

The vast majority of ordinary Ukrainians and European Russians are the same peoples. They are (used to be) like brothers. It is the Banksters, Nazis and other Fascists who purposely drive wedges between people who should be getting along with each other just fine.

Ultimately Gorbachev and Yeltsin are to blame for allowing the wicked people to make this horror story happen. Either of them could have prevented it, neither did.

Last edited by JimSmith; 07 Apr 15 at 11:51..
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  #25  
Old 07 Apr 15, 11:58
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Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
I've seen maps around here with pretty colours that suggest otherwise.
And likely maps that I have posted, but it is speculation about what variations of a speculative offensive by VSN could be. These type of maps litter the internet and mean nothing excpet what some would like them to mean. You or anybody shows the maps that Shoigu and Putin look at and people will take serious notice, but won't happen, and I think their maps will simply show the borders as they are now.
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  #26  
Old 07 Apr 15, 12:06
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Originally Posted by JimSmith View Post
It's all a nightmare.

The vast majority of ordinary Ukrainians and European Russians are the same peoples. They are (used to be) like brothers. It is the Banksters, Nazis and other Fascists who purposely drive wedges between people who should be getting along with each other just fine.

Ultimately Gorbachev and Yeltsin are to blame for allowing the wicked people to make this horror story happen. Either of them could have prevented it, neither did.
Precisely, and something that has been mentioned many times since this all began, but for some reason ignored. This is one of the reasons Putin said that collapse of Soviet Union was a disaster. He is deliberately taken out of context as meaning about control and power and maintaining an empire, but he meant about the human tragedies that occured during the breakup and continue to this day.
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  #27  
Old 07 Apr 15, 12:20
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Originally Posted by Khepesh View Post
Precisely, and something that has been mentioned many times since this all began, but for some reason ignored. This is one of the reasons Putin said that collapse of Soviet Union was a disaster. He is deliberately taken out of context as meaning about control and power and maintaining an empire, but he meant about the human tragedies that occured during the breakup and continue to this day.
But how was that in any way anyone else's fault but the Russians themselves ?

Gorbachev and Yeltsin were Russians, or Soviet Russians at least - in a position of power in accordance with what the Russians themselves envisioned for a political system - no ?

It's like the French blaming the Robespierre terror, or the Germans blaming the economic collapse of Weimar republic on anyone else but themselves.
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  #28  
Old 07 Apr 15, 12:29
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Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
This forum would have very few posts if only the people you approve of can post here, wouldn't it? I have no reason to tell the good people of the Ukraine who or what they are as ethnicity goes. Why are you so het up to tell them what they have to be? Let them make up their own minds without soldiers and tanks going down their streets.

By the way, I like Ukrainians. I have worked with several over the years.

If your grasp of the issues in the Ukraine right now is better than mine, why are you trying to shut me up? Reminds me of the old phrase: "Move along folks! Nothing to see here!" If you are right and can show it in good logic, you should fear no "foreign" posters with different views than yours. Maybe you want to only see views like your own?

Pruitt
My post should be taken literally, about anybody in the world to tell them who they are or who they should be, not specifically you or anybody on this forum. You can have, and voice any opinion you want, but if you or anybody tries to say who they are on ethnic grounds, and ignores the reality and the history, then likely this will be pointed out to you. Do not forget you have in an earlier post decided that ethnic Russians are now Ukranians on the basis of passport, a piece of paper, not blood flesh and bones. All those people on the 1897 census who described themselves as Great Russians did not suddenly go away or die out, their descendants are still there, and are still ethnic Russians. Sort of odd that nobody described themselves as "Ukranian", isn't it.

I do not run around this forum trying to stop debate, that is the preserve of certain Kiev "supporters". Interesting you mention tanks on the streets, for the people of Donbass voted overwhelmingly to decide their own future, and found Kiev's tanks on their streets and Kiev's artillery bombarding them. Pity they have not been allowed to make up their own minds and have to now fight for survival, and be insulted by being called "terrorists" or "Russian invaders"
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  #29  
Old 07 Apr 15, 12:30
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Originally Posted by Khepesh View Post
Russian from Krasnodar. And what is YOUR ethnicity and reason to be interested in Ukraine, do you have any valid reason other than use the situation as an excuse to shout at Russia. Are YOU interested in the people, all of them, not just the Galicians.
Why do you say I am just interested in Galicians? First off, do you mean the area in Spain or the area that used to be a province of Hungary?

I am a Louisiana Redneck as opposed to a Louisiana Cajun. My ancestors came from the British Isles. I also am Southern by the Grace of God. Dad was in the Air Force when I was born in California.

I have an interest in Military History and the Steppes have a lot of this.

So you are a Russian from Russia? Why are you interested in the Ukraine?

Pruitt
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  #30  
Old 07 Apr 15, 12:45
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Originally Posted by Khepesh View Post
My post should be taken literally, about anybody in the world to tell them who they are or who they should be, not specifically you or anybody on this forum. You can have, and voice any opinion you want, but if you or anybody tries to say who they are on ethnic grounds, and ignores the reality and the history, then likely this will be pointed out to you. Do not forget you have in an earlier post decided that ethnic Russians are now Ukranians on the basis of passport, a piece of paper, not blood flesh and bones. All those people on the 1897 census who described themselves as Great Russians did not suddenly go away or die out, their descendants are still there, and are still ethnic Russians. Sort of odd that nobody described themselves as "Ukranian", isn't it.

I do not run around this forum trying to stop debate, that is the preserve of certain Kiev "supporters". Interesting you mention tanks on the streets, for the people of Donbass voted overwhelmingly to decide their own future, and found Kiev's tanks on their streets and Kiev's artillery bombarding them. Pity they have not been allowed to make up their own minds and have to now fight for survival, and be insulted by being called "terrorists" or "Russian invaders"
Here in the US we have a different measure on who is what. America was built by many different people from many different countries. Most people here that are born here call themselves Americans. I am a bit confused as to your reasoning about ethnic groups in the former Soviet Union. When do people born in the Ukraine become Ukrainian? You seem to be saying that people from the Ukraine with passports saying they are Ukrainian should be called Russians? Well, if that floats your boat, go ahead, but it is not very logical.

Who said where the tanks came from?

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