HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > World War II > Armor in World War II

Notices and Announcements

Armor in World War II Discuss all aspects & disciplines of World War II Armor here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 04 Jun 15, 17:35
T. A. Gardner's Avatar
T. A. Gardner T. A. Gardner is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: T. A. Gardner
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 35,249
T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
2 points.
First, the US 75mm M3 and the Soviet 3" were about equal, and the 6pdr had superior AP performance than both.
Secondly the 6pdr seems to have been a success against the Tiger whether in Normandy, Tunisia or on the Eastern Front. It was a 6pdr shot that knocked out the only Tiger at Prokhorovka as an example.

However, I think we can agree that we have a capable commander, who knows his particular tank can stalk the Cat, and has a decent enough weapon to take it out.
While the 6 pdr is a bit better as an antitank gun, it is horrid by comparison to either the US 75mm or Russian 76.2mm as an HE weapon when it eventually had an HE round, something everybody found more useful.

And, I agree with the second bit. A good crew in any Allied medium tank could successfully take on a German "cat."
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 04 Jun 15, 22:54
flash's Avatar
flash flash is offline
General
UK
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tony.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: newcastle
Posts: 5,115
flash has a spectacular aura about [400]
flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

British ARV's tended to be the same tank as the troop it was attached to, ie tracked.

The uparmoured T-34, ie the T-43, proved to be a failure as it was not armoured enough.

The Jumbo M4 added almost 10 tons of weight, and suffered the same problems as the Panther, also about 10 tons heavier than its original design. However, Whites report, plus two scathing journalist articles in the Washington Post and NY Times convinced Patton to create more Jumbo's. There was aneed for armour, as current Western designs have proved again and again.
It didn't suffer the same problems as the Panther,firstly its gear ratio was toned down to give more low end grunt and the gears themselves were well built.
It broke down quicker than a standard M4 ,that's true but what do you want,a thin skinned comfortable family saloon of a tank that will go on forever or something that can actually take a hit or two and die of natural causes after 500 miles?
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 04 Jun 15, 22:58
flash's Avatar
flash flash is offline
General
UK
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tony.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: newcastle
Posts: 5,115
flash has a spectacular aura about [400]
flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
The M26 is still not a significant WW2 tank. It had no impact, and should not be included as a 'best' WW2 tank.

There were 3 Centurions in Germany in the 7th AD by the end of the war. They didn't fight afaik, but if you are going to include M26's in the list as possible best tank, you may as well include A41's. Perhaps IS-3's as well.
Nevertheless,the M26 did see combat while the A41 and IS3 didn't and therefore the M26 is officially a WW2 tank or are you suggesting that tanks that only fought in the first few months of the war are exempt too?
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 04 Jun 15, 23:17
flash's Avatar
flash flash is offline
General
UK
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tony.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: newcastle
Posts: 5,115
flash has a spectacular aura about [400]
flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
While the 6 pdr is a bit better as an antitank gun, it is horrid by comparison to either the US 75mm or Russian 76.2mm as an HE weapon when it eventually had an HE round, something everybody found more useful.

And, I agree with the second bit. A good crew in any Allied medium tank could successfully take on a German "cat."
Nope,that's going too far.

Did you not read the post,the Tiger killed three 34s and then a Valentine snuck up on it,were the 34 crews inept?

Picture the scene; You are in overwatch while the rest of your M4A1 platoon advance,one of the M4s goes up in smoke,you spot the firer,it's a Tiger 800 yards away,what do you do to defeat it?
It can't be that difficult because you are a good,well trained crew......c'mon! You've got seconds to act before your platoon buys the farm.

Do you:

A--Fire smoke at it.
B--Fire HE at it.
C--Fire AP at it.
D--Call in a fire mission.
E--Request air.
F--Write your platoon off and reverse into cover.
G--All of the above.

I would suggest firing smoke at it and calling in all sorts of s**t.
Hopefully it'll move off of its own accord then it'll be some other saps turn to lead the Bn.

But to simply state that any good allied medium tank crew can take on any cat is crazy,surprise them,yes,take them on,no.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 05 Jun 15, 04:28
Nick the Noodle's Avatar
Nick the Noodle Nick the Noodle is offline
General of the Forums
Wales
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls SPQR Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tin Pot Noodle
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Land of the Red Dragon
Posts: 17,695
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
While the 6 pdr is a bit better as an antitank gun, it is horrid by comparison to either the US 75mm or Russian 76.2mm as an HE weapon when it eventually had an HE round, something everybody found more useful.

And, I agree with the second bit. A good crew in any Allied medium tank could successfully take on a German "cat."
Agreed in the main with point 1, and totally with point 2. The US 75mm HE was even superior to the US 90mm HE in shrapnel effect.

As far as the reply was concerned, I return to the fact that the T-43 was a failure because it was neither uparmed, nor uparmoured enough to deal with the odd heavy, and the Soviets simply did not have the real capability of using medium artillery to drive off Cats. They needed a better gun on their mediums hence the T34/85.
__________________
How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 05 Jun 15, 04:32
Nick the Noodle's Avatar
Nick the Noodle Nick the Noodle is offline
General of the Forums
Wales
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls SPQR Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tin Pot Noodle
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Land of the Red Dragon
Posts: 17,695
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash View Post
Nevertheless,the M26 did see combat while the A41 and IS3 didn't and therefore the M26 is officially a WW2 tank or are you suggesting that tanks that only fought in the first few months of the war are exempt too?
Absolutely. A tank would need to have seen significant service in significant numbers to qualify imho. Since I believe that the King Tiger should be a possible contender, I would stipulate at least one years service and c500 minimum built, although I personally would not put the Tiger II anywhere near the top.
__________________
How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 05 Jun 15, 09:13
flash's Avatar
flash flash is offline
General
UK
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tony.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: newcastle
Posts: 5,115
flash has a spectacular aura about [400]
flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
Absolutely. A tank would need to have seen significant service in significant numbers to qualify imho. Since I believe that the King Tiger should be a possible contender, I would stipulate at least one years service and c500 minimum built, although I personally would not put the Tiger II anywhere near the top.
But then that's not a true representation of tanks which fought in WW2,
If you were to produce a list of footballers who played in the premier league in the last ten years would you rule out those who only appeared once or twice before being dropped?
No course not,a comprehensive and accurate list would include even those with the briefest appearance.

20 M26s fought from January to VE day, that's 6 months of the 11 since D-Day or over half of the entire European campaign,their actions are well documented and even filmed (As in Cologne).

I dare say that if a 20 plane squadron of Meteors or P80s had seen action for the last 6 months of the war then they would generally be accepted as WW2 vets.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 05 Jun 15, 09:36
Nick the Noodle's Avatar
Nick the Noodle Nick the Noodle is offline
General of the Forums
Wales
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls SPQR Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tin Pot Noodle
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Land of the Red Dragon
Posts: 17,695
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash View Post
But then that's not a true representation of tanks which fought in WW2,
If you were to produce a list of footballers who played in the premier league in the last ten years would you rule out those who only appeared once or twice before being dropped?
No course not,a comprehensive and accurate list would include even those with the briefest appearance.
False analogy. We are talking best in a set period of time. If Pele were to play just one game in a particular 10 year period, would he be best overall. The answer would be no, because one game does not make a side win a league trophy any more than any other one. He might get a player of the match award for that particular event, but that's it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash View Post
20 M26s fought from January to VE day, that's 6 months of the 11 since D-Day or over half of the entire European campaign,their actions are well documented and even filmed (As in Cologne).
7th March 1945 at Remagen was their first combat action. You might consider 20 tanks in combat for about 2 months suitable for best tank of WW2, but I don't. Their impact was simply not significant in the slightest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash View Post
I dare say that if a 20 plane squadron of Meteors or P80s had seen action for the last 6 months of the war then they would generally be accepted as WW2 vets.
The Meteor is already accepted as a WW2 jet, ie the first Allied jet. This is the first time I have ever heard that the Meteor was not considered a WW2 jet.
__________________
How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 05 Jun 15, 09:53
m kenny's Avatar
m kenny m kenny is offline
Lieutenant General
UK
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North-East England
Posts: 3,844
m kenny is a jewel in the rough [500]
m kenny is a jewel in the rough [500] m kenny is a jewel in the rough [500] m kenny is a jewel in the rough [500] m kenny is a jewel in the rough [500] m kenny is a jewel in the rough [500] m kenny is a jewel in the rough [500] m kenny is a jewel in the rough [500]
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash View Post
20 M26s fought from January to VE day
20 in the first issue. In all 300 were shipped to Europe of which 110 were issued to front line units.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 05 Jun 15, 10:28
Nick the Noodle's Avatar
Nick the Noodle Nick the Noodle is offline
General of the Forums
Wales
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls SPQR Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tin Pot Noodle
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Land of the Red Dragon
Posts: 17,695
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by m kenny View Post
20 in the first issue. In all 300 were shipped to Europe of which 110 were issued to front line units.

Hardly significant.



Hunnicutt (page 38) states 310 had been issued of which 200 were in front line units. I'd be interested if he was wrong.

Even so, I would not count the M26 either as a best, nor a significant tank in WW2, unlike the Sherman or T-34 as an example.
__________________
How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #71  
Old 05 Jun 15, 10:38
m kenny's Avatar
m kenny m kenny is offline
Lieutenant General
UK
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North-East England
Posts: 3,844
m kenny is a jewel in the rough [500]
m kenny is a jewel in the rough [500] m kenny is a jewel in the rough [500] m kenny is a jewel in the rough [500] m kenny is a jewel in the rough [500] m kenny is a jewel in the rough [500] m kenny is a jewel in the rough [500] m kenny is a jewel in the rough [500]
The key word is 'issued'. It all depends how you see a tank that is in control of a Unit but not serving in the front line. Not really worth a big debate. The point is the initial trial of 20 tanks in ZEBRA was not the only time the tank was in the front line.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 05 Jun 15, 23:06
flash's Avatar
flash flash is offline
General
UK
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tony.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: newcastle
Posts: 5,115
flash has a spectacular aura about [400]
flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
False analogy. We are talking best in a set period of time. If Pele were to play just one game in a particular 10 year period, would he be best overall. The answer would be no, because one game does not make a side win a league trophy any more than any other one. He might get a player of the match award for that particular event, but that's it.
7th March 1945 at Remagen was their first combat action. You might consider 20 tanks in combat for about 2 months suitable for best tank of WW2, but I don't. Their impact was simply not significant in the slightest.

The Meteor is already accepted as a WW2 jet, ie the first Allied jet. This is the first time I have ever heard that the Meteor was not considered a WW2 jet.
Ok then ,what if Pele had played in only the last five games of our ten season period?

Oh the Meteor was in Squadron service in WW2 alright,it just never flew against anything,we all know that.

You seem to believe that it was superior to the 262 when in fact only its engines were and that was due to us having access to exotic metals,Herr Junkers knew his engines were crap only because he could not build them to spec due to a complete lack of suitable material.
In fact I think his engine works pioneered the use of "spray on" stainless steel coating if I remember rightly.

It doesn't matter in the slightest where the RAF posted their Meteors,they saw no combat during WW2 and therefore must for the same reasons the A41 is considered a post war tank be considered post war.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 06 Jun 15, 08:52
Nick the Noodle's Avatar
Nick the Noodle Nick the Noodle is offline
General of the Forums
Wales
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls SPQR Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tin Pot Noodle
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Land of the Red Dragon
Posts: 17,695
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash View Post
Ok then ,what if Pele had played in only the last five games of our ten season period?

Oh the Meteor was in Squadron service in WW2 alright,it just never flew against anything,we all know that.

You seem to believe that it was superior to the 262 when in fact only its engines were and that was due to us having access to exotic metals,Herr Junkers knew his engines were crap only because he could not build them to spec due to a complete lack of suitable material.
In fact I think his engine works pioneered the use of "spray on" stainless steel coating if I remember rightly.

It doesn't matter in the slightest where the RAF posted their Meteors,they saw no combat during WW2 and therefore must for the same reasons the A41 is considered a post war tank be considered post war.
But I wouldn't call the Meteor significant either, certainly not as significant as the Spitfire, Mustang, Zero, Me 109, the Yaks, and many others.

It should be noted that the Soviets, who did not have cash problems or limited resources, nabbed a whole bunch of Nazi Jet scientists and kit, and tried to make the Me 262 and other axial flow jets work. They failed initially. Instead, they reverted to reverse engineering the British engine varient used on the Meteor F3 for their excellent Mig-15. Even more excellent was the F-86 Sabre, which was also powered by a development of Frank Whittles work.

The real influence of the Me 262 approaches zero.
__________________
How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 06 Jun 15, 10:58
Nick the Noodle's Avatar
Nick the Noodle Nick the Noodle is offline
General of the Forums
Wales
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls SPQR Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tin Pot Noodle
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Land of the Red Dragon
Posts: 17,695
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Just received my copy. Unfortunately, its appears to have been written for those who know nothing about tanks so far. Still, it could get better.
__________________
How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 06 Jun 15, 11:27
flash's Avatar
flash flash is offline
General
UK
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tony.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: newcastle
Posts: 5,115
flash has a spectacular aura about [400]
flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400] flash has a spectacular aura about [400]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
Just received my copy. Unfortunately, its appears to have been written for those who know nothing about tanks so far. Still, it could get better.
No,the narrative is for beginners,the interesting part is limited to his conclusions.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 17:10.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.