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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion > American Revolution

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American Revolution 1763-1789 The birth of a new nation - to commence at the Proclaimation of 1763 to the end of the Articles of Confederation.

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  #1  
Old 24 Jan 15, 13:46
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71st Regiment of Foot Cap Badge Found While Scuba Diving in the Savannah River, USA.

71st Regiment of Foot Cap Badge found While scuba diving in the Savannah River.


Could an amateur treasure diver really have turned up a possible Revolutionary War artifact?

While scuba diving in the Savannah River 13 years ago, a Georgia man uncovered a mysterious badge. With the number 71 inscribed in Latin,and with imprints of a thistle and a crown, it looks like a Regimental badge.
But the item raises more questions than it answers. The last time there was a crowned head ruling over the Georgia area was during Revolutionary times. How could a badge be that old and appear so un-corroded?

Moreover, what was the badge doing on the Rebel's side of the river?

The History Detectives head down South to uncover the truth about the Savannah River and the British High Command’s so-called Southern Strategy. Could this badge possibly have been from the 71st Highlanders — one of the fiercest troops of the war?

Was it part of a desperate maneuver by the British to turn the tide of the Revolutionary War and reclaim the U.S. colonies?


http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetect...hlander-badge/



Note; posted, etc, 4 years ago.


.
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File Type: jpg 71st of Foot Cap Badge.jpg (36.8 KB, 22 views)

Last edited by Spaņiard; 24 Jan 15 at 13:53..
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  #2  
Old 24 Jan 15, 19:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaņiard View Post
71st Regiment of Foot Cap Badge found While scuba diving in the Savannah River.


Could an amateur treasure diver really have turned up a possible Revolutionary War artifact?

While scuba diving in the Savannah River 13 years ago, a Georgia man uncovered a mysterious badge. With the number 71 inscribed in Latin,and with imprints of a thistle and a crown, it looks like a Regimental badge.
But the item raises more questions than it answers. The last time there was a crowned head ruling over the Georgia area was during Revolutionary times. How could a badge be that old and appear so un-corroded?

Moreover, what was the badge doing on the Rebel's side of the river?

The History Detectives head down South to uncover the truth about the Savannah River and the British High Command’s so-called Southern Strategy. Could this badge possibly have been from the 71st Highlanders — one of the fiercest troops of the war?

Was it part of a desperate maneuver by the British to turn the tide of the Revolutionary War and reclaim the U.S. colonies?


http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetect...hlander-badge/



Note; posted, etc, 4 years ago.


.
That badge 'could be' a cartridge pouch flap badge. The 71st would have been a kilted line regiment at the time of the revolutionary war in America. In 1809, it became a Light Infantry Regiment and lost its highland distinctions. Or It could be a Plaid Brooch. I go for a Plaid Brooch

Though Don Troiani goes for the former.





Paul
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Or with a bauble or medal
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Give honour to the dainty Corse,
The Pixie is a little shite.

Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 24 Jan 15 at 20:13..
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Old 25 Jan 15, 04:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
That badge 'could be' a cartridge pouch flap badge. The 71st would have been a kilted line regiment at the time of the revolutionary war in America. In 1809, it became a Light Infantry Regiment and lost its highland distinctions. Or It could be a Plaid Brooch. I go for a Plaid Brooch

Though Don Troiani goes for the former.





Paul
Would the Coat Tails be that long either ?since in a lot of contemporary paintings the Jackets are shorter and even plainer.

Made me laugh seeing the new cover of the Osprey Redcoats V Militiaman book on Amazon as the Redcoat is wearing a big tricorne which even before the war were not seen as suitable for Field work. While the Minuteman is dressing (if you change the coat colour) as more like the Red Coat would fight in that war
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Old 25 Jan 15, 12:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
That badge 'could be' a cartridge pouch flap badge. The 71st would have been a kilted line regiment at the time of the revolutionary war in America. In 1809, it became a Light Infantry Regiment and lost its highland distinctions. Or It could be a Plaid Brooch. I go for a Plaid Brooch

Though Don Troiani goes for the former.




Paul
Mr. Paul THK U FR YR time, that's true, forgot to mention, 'could be,' a cartridge pouch flap badge. Those badges, buttons were made out of Pewtar for the 71st and doesn't rust, only in salt water?


This was found on the beach, around salt water:





The second Attachment is a Cap badge from 1776 of the 71st. Looks like same badge for the cartridge pouch.




Found in Savannha:

Last edited by Spaņiard; 25 Jan 15 at 14:08..
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Old 25 Jan 15, 20:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaņiard View Post
Mr. Paul THK U FR YR time, that's true, forgot to mention, 'could be,' a cartridge pouch flap badge. Those badges, buttons were made out of Pewtar for the 71st and doesn't rust, only in salt water?


This was found on the beach, around salt water:





The second Attachment is a Cap badge from 1776 of the 71st. Looks like same badge for the cartridge pouch.




Found in Savannha:
That 'cap badge' is I take it, on a reproduction bonnet? If it was a pouch badge (or cap badge for that matter) why is it domed like a brooch? It also looks to be made of brass and not pewter?

Paul
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All human ills he can subdue,
Or with a bauble or medal
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And many a blessing know to stew
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Give honour to the dainty Corse,
The Pixie is a little shite.
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Old 28 Jan 15, 14:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
That 'cap badge' is I take it, on a reproduction bonnet? If it was a pouch badge (or cap badge for that matter) why is it domed like a brooch? It also looks to be made of brass and not pewter?

Paul
Like you can see this is not Brass in colour. SVP see link Image is too big to insert.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/53691420529935733/




http://blog.charlestonmuseum.org/2013/04/


I’m replying in deferent: I’m waiting for a response from the Savannah museum to see what’s repo, etc., for me without providence could all be Museum reproduction which are common. See first attachment of complete
display.


You made valid points that I have taken into consideration a long time ago, concluding illustrations can be misleading and not factual, especially what’s been written in books many have dropped the ball. On two olden day B/W sketches of Officers you see white cap badge worn 1776, with no cartage box, or brass badge. Because it’s domed and looks like a brooch is not relevant, many old day cap badges look like or could be used as a brooch. My UN PK Cyprus cape badge is domed and has a brooch attachment on the back.


Crest badges intended for wear as cap badges are commonly made of silver or some ... Women may wear a crest badge as a brooch to pin a sash of their clan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scottish_clans


The 71st etc., badge on the back from what I seen in two museums had 3 eye O holes attachment on the back, however both were in pewter, silver like in colour, not brass. However in Troiani’s Soldiers p 42: “The cartridge box badge has been frequently been misidentified as a “bonnet badge” among collectors: Many have claimed not a creatable source.


Title: Bonnet badge
Date: 1760-1783
Medium: Brass
Dimensions Diameter: 2 in. (5.1 cm)
Description: Round bonnet badge from 71st Regiment of Foot (Fraser's Highlanders) British Army. Found by William Howland Pell (1833-1911) in the garden of the country home of his grandfather, John H. Howland (1774-1849) at Bloomingdale about 1840, at what is now Riverside Drive and 86th Street. Text label in object file. Credit Line Gift of Captain Howland Pell, 1920

Object Number INV.5631.6: (6, 11) bonnet badge, 71st Fraser Highlander Regt.; circular crown at topand thistle center; "FACE REAUT PATE/IMPUNE/.........QUILQUIDAUT NEMO..." "71" (AT BOTTOM); (found at Riverside Drive and 86th St. in 1840, Gift of Howland Pell, 1920) engraved:

http://www.nyhistory.org/exhibit/bonnet-badge



The Montreal Military & Halifax Maritime Museum, now known as “The David M. Stewart Museum,” archives, documents, paint a different picture.

Uniform (71st) discusses info. on uniform L64-04-22 (Whitford); identifies photocopies of Lawson's uniform sketches as portraits of specific officers of 71st Reg't L64-05-07 (Stewart); discusses uniform of 71st Reg't. L64-05-10 (Whitford); refers to confusion of Fraser tartan with that worn by 71st Reg't. L64-09-09 (Harper);; reference to WO records for 71st uniform facings L64-10-18 (Clendenin); sends info.on 71st Reg't. uniforms L75-04-09 (Chartrand); discusses details of uniform in letter to Chartrand L75-04-15 (Harper); sample of buttons and illustrations and bonnet badge for 71st Reg't. uniform sent L96-12-31 (Petrovitch)


Could be officers wore silver, or pewtar in color cap badge, the uniform once in America was altered, they wore trouser etc.


SVP when I get all the facts on bonnet etc., from the Savannha M archives I will post them, THK U FR YR TME.


One more thing to add, found out few months ago, the brass badge of the 71st etc as seen at Charleston museum, found on-line they make a similar repo for $25. usf.


Joseph


.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Bonnet_zpse7ef3b8e.jpg (71.8 KB, 10 views)

Last edited by Spaņiard; 28 Jan 15 at 15:30..
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Old 30 Jan 15, 01:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaņiard View Post
Like you can see this is not Brass in colour. SVP see link Image is too big to insert.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/53691420529935733/




http://blog.charlestonmuseum.org/2013/04/


I’m replying in deferent: I’m waiting for a response from the Savannah museum to see what’s repo, etc., for me without providence could all be Museum reproduction which are common. See first attachment of complete
display.


You made valid points that I have taken into consideration a long time ago, concluding illustrations can be misleading and not factual, especially what’s been written in books many have dropped the ball. On two olden day B/W sketches of Officers you see white cap badge worn 1776, with no cartage box, or brass badge. Because it’s domed and looks like a brooch is not relevant, many old day cap badges look like or could be used as a brooch. My UN PK Cyprus cape badge is domed and has a brooch attachment on the back.


Crest badges intended for wear as cap badges are commonly made of silver or some ... Women may wear a crest badge as a brooch to pin a sash of their clan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scottish_clans


The 71st etc., badge on the back from what I seen in two museums had 3 eye O holes attachment on the back, however both were in pewter, silver like in colour, not brass. However in Troiani’s Soldiers p 42: “The cartridge box badge has been frequently been misidentified as a “bonnet badge” among collectors: Many have claimed not a creatable source.


Title: Bonnet badge
Date: 1760-1783
Medium: Brass
Dimensions Diameter: 2 in. (5.1 cm)
Description: Round bonnet badge from 71st Regiment of Foot (Fraser's Highlanders) British Army. Found by William Howland Pell (1833-1911) in the garden of the country home of his grandfather, John H. Howland (1774-1849) at Bloomingdale about 1840, at what is now Riverside Drive and 86th Street. Text label in object file. Credit Line Gift of Captain Howland Pell, 1920

Object Number INV.5631.6: (6, 11) bonnet badge, 71st Fraser Highlander Regt.; circular crown at topand thistle center; "FACE REAUT PATE/IMPUNE/.........QUILQUIDAUT NEMO..." "71" (AT BOTTOM); (found at Riverside Drive and 86th St. in 1840, Gift of Howland Pell, 1920) engraved:

http://www.nyhistory.org/exhibit/bonnet-badge



The Montreal Military & Halifax Maritime Museum, now known as “The David M. Stewart Museum,” archives, documents, paint a different picture.

Uniform (71st) discusses info. on uniform L64-04-22 (Whitford); identifies photocopies of Lawson's uniform sketches as portraits of specific officers of 71st Reg't L64-05-07 (Stewart); discusses uniform of 71st Reg't. L64-05-10 (Whitford); refers to confusion of Fraser tartan with that worn by 71st Reg't. L64-09-09 (Harper);; reference to WO records for 71st uniform facings L64-10-18 (Clendenin); sends info.on 71st Reg't. uniforms L75-04-09 (Chartrand); discusses details of uniform in letter to Chartrand L75-04-15 (Harper); sample of buttons and illustrations and bonnet badge for 71st Reg't. uniform sent L96-12-31 (Petrovitch)


Could be officers wore silver, or pewtar in color cap badge, the uniform once in America was altered, they wore trouser etc.


SVP when I get all the facts on bonnet etc., from the Savannha M archives I will post them, THK U FR YR TME.


One more thing to add, found out few months ago, the brass badge of the 71st etc as seen at Charleston museum, found on-line they make a similar repo for $25. usf.


Joseph


.
I'm still of the opinion that said brass badge is a plaid brooch. That they may have been adapted to be worn on the bonnet is also a possibility.

Can I say that the UN PK Cyprus cape badge being domed and 200 years later, is also irrelevant. Anyway, the 71st were a pewter and silver regiment.

Paul
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All human ills he can subdue,
Or with a bauble or medal
Can win mans heart for you;
And many a blessing know to stew
To make a megloamaniac bright;
Give honour to the dainty Corse,
The Pixie is a little shite.
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Old 30 Jan 15, 13:13
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Originally Posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
I'm still of the opinion that said brass badge is a plaid brooch. That they may have been adapted to be worn on the bonnet is also a possibility.

Can I say that the UN PK Cyprus cape badge being domed and 200 years later, is also irrelevant. Anyway, the 71st were a pewter and silver regiment.

Paul
The UN PK badge, was just to show badges can be domed and look like a brooch I have many others that look same, like a brooch.

"That said brass badge is a plaid brooch, that they may have been adapted to be worn on the bonnet is also a possibility." Yes that has a strong possability, rings true, since the majority of all accounts as illustrations they wore feathers, for the exception of two sketches.


As for the 71st were a pewter and silver regiment, that's why the pewtar in color cap badges I've seen added more questions then answers.



The thing that throws me off on the brooch for plaid, is the back attachment 3 0, Highland plaid brooches had different attachment from 1600 etc.





Photos: T. McDonald, 2005. 15th century, from Urquhart Castle.




1650 Scottish Plaid brooch at the Victoria and Albert Museum, London.



A 17th century plaid brooch.

1800 same.



This great plaid badge of the HLI dates about from early times according to the battle honors that go all around the edges such as Waterloo, Egypt, Pyrenees, Alma, Indostan, Vittoria, Peninsula. There are 30 battle honors running around it, but none seem as late as WWI. So it could well be assumed that this brooch could be much earlier. It’s constructed with a three-piece method with the badge being the last applied section. We’ll not go into the history of this elite Scottish regiment since so much can be found on the net. They are the most-celebrated regiment of foot in the British army. We will say that the name Highland Light Infantry evolved after it was adopted by the 71st Highlanders in 1809 as the first clan regiment at the outbreak of the American War of Independence. Later, in 1881, the 71st and 74th regiments of foot were redesignated as the 1st and 2nd Battalions, respectively, of the Highland Light Infantry. The brooch is massive measuring 4 inches in diameter.


http://www.germaniainternational.com/england4.html



THK U FR YR TME Mr. Paul.


Joseph

.

Last edited by Spaņiard; 30 Jan 15 at 14:00..
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Old 31 Jan 15, 00:36
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Now I have seen the badge in scale and the back of it too, I agree with the finder and reckon it is a belt badge (though it could be the sword belt). The three fastener loops would have gone through the leather belt then a brass backing plate would have been attached with the badge loops passing through corresponding cutouts in the plate on back of the belt and secured with split pins.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/to...uch-badge.html

Later types of pouch/sword belt badges would have had threaded attachment points instead of loops and fastened with small nuts.

Plaid brooches, both military & civilian, varied and still do, in size generally from 55mm up to 110mm.

Paul
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Or with a bauble or medal
Can win mans heart for you;
And many a blessing know to stew
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Give honour to the dainty Corse,
The Pixie is a little shite.

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Old 31 Jan 15, 03:01
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71st Regiment of Foot (Fraser's Highlanders) was one of the British regiments at Cowpens in January 1781.
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Old 31 Jan 15, 13:50
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71st Regiment of Foot (Fraser's Highlanders) was one of the British regiments at Cowpens in January 1781.

71st Regiment of Foot, 2nd Batt., surrendering at Yorktown in 1781, imprisoned at Fort Frederick.


42nd Regt. of Foot RHR:

1768 May 26th Inspection Return:
6 Fifers and 2 Pipers (as Drummers) – 9 Drums. Colours, 1768. 288 swords, 259 firelocks. Officers – plain scarlet short coat, lapelled to waist with dark blue; a small round blue cuff; numbered buttons; white lining, white waistecoat, kilted plaids, blue bonnets with black ostrich feathers – white highland hose, striped with red.

March 19th 1783. Headquarters Records of the British Army in America. Return of clothing and necessary embezzled and lost. P.R.O. 30/55, Vol. 65, pp 7164-6.
42nd Regiment: bonnets; soles and heels: stockings night cap; velvet stocks; black feathers; stock buckles; half gaiters; lace.

May 14th, 1790. Inspection Return:
The Lieut.-Col. appeared in boots and was mounted. Men – very hard features and countenances, bonnets are entirely disfigured, that are so covered with lofty feathers that they appear like high Grenadier caps of black bear-skin, and are made by that means expensive to the men.

71st Regiment of (Highland) Foot.
Miscellany Book. Dec. 15th 1775; clothing correspondence. Adj.-Gen. to Thomas Fauquier Esgre. W.O. 30/13A, p.32.
His Majesty has approved of the uniform which Maj.-Gen. Fraser has proposed for the Regiment [71st] to which he is appointed Colonel. The facings to be white. The number 71 to be on the buttons. The lace for the button holes to be white and red. No breeches.

1783 March 19th. Headquarters Records of the British Army in America. Return of clothing and necessarys embezzled and lost. P.R.O. 30./55, Vol. 65, pp. 7164-6.
71st Regiment: hose cloth; shirts; shoes; garters; thread; bonnets; night cap; mitts; soles and heels.

Headquarters Records of the British Army in America. Return of clothing and necessarys embezzled and lost. P.R.O. 30./55, Vol. 65, pp. 7164-6. 71st Regiment of (Highland) Foot light Infantry, red feathers.


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Old 31 Jan 15, 14:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
Now I have seen the badge in scale and the back of it too, I agree with the finder and reckon it is a belt badge (though it could be the sword belt). The three fastener loops would have gone through the leather belt then a brass backing plate would have been attached with the badge loops passing through corresponding cutouts in the plate on back of the belt and secured with split pins.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/to...uch-badge.html

Later types of pouch/sword belt badges would have had threaded attachment points instead of loops and fastened with small nuts.

Plaid brooches, both military & civilian, varied and still do, in size generally from 55mm up to 110mm.

Paul



http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/at...1&d=1332358532


Mr. Paul saw link yes that’s the 3 back O attachments, the Crossbelts in black leather they wore circa 2. ―” wide, the badge 2” diameter.” The leather CB hang from the shoulders, two, left for cartridge box, on the right hip, the right for bayonet scabbard would fit just right, considering the thickness of the leather and those O are very small. Could be easily attached to the cartridge box, crossbelts sword or bayonet, or used as a bonnet badge.


That badge posted on link as U know for The Royal Highland Emigrants" in 1775, in 1778 numbered the 84th.


Earnest Chambers writes: In 1775 when an increase of the army by 35 regiments for the American war was authorized, the regiment of Fraser’s Highlanders was reorganized in two battalions, consisting of 2,340 officers and men. The Colonel-in-chief was the Hon. Simon

Fraser of Lovat, the Lieut.-Colonel of the first battalion. Sir William Erskine, of Torry, and of the second battalion, Archibald Campbell. It was numbered the 71st, and served through the Revolutionary War.

Of the force of 1,800 men which formed the garrison of Quebec in 1775-76, 230 were men of the old Fraser’s and other Highland regiments, who had settled in Canada and the other English colonies and had been reembodied upon the outbreak of the war, under Lieut.-Colonel Allan Maclean, of Torloisk. These veteran Highlanders formed part of the first battalion of the two-battalion regiment raised in America under the name of "The Royal Highland Emigrants" in 1775, and in 1778 numbered the 84th. Most of the officers and men had previously served in Fraser's Highlanders, Montgomerie's Highlanders, or the Black Watch. The uniform of both battalions was the full Highland dress with sporrans made of racoon skins. The officers wore the broadsword and dirk, the men a half-basket sword. In 1783, after the war, the regiment was again disbanded, most of the members of the first battalion settling in Upper Canada, those of the second battalion in Nova Scotia.




THK U FR YR TME.


Joseph

Last edited by Spaņiard; 01 Feb 15 at 12:47..
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Old 03 Feb 15, 18:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by History fan View Post
Would the Coat Tails be that long either ?since in a lot of contemporary paintings the Jackets are shorter and even plainer.

Made me laugh seeing the new cover of the Osprey Redcoats V Militiaman book on Amazon as the Redcoat is wearing a big tricorne which even before the war were not seen as suitable for Field work. While the Minuteman is dressing (if you change the coat colour) as more like the Red Coat would fight in that war
The 71st, or Fraser's Highlanders, who served in Georgia, were a regiment raised for wartime service only. Mustered in early 1776, they were disbanded between 1783 and 1776. The 71st of the Napoleonic Wars, later the 71st Highland Light Infantry, was also a Highland regiment raised for AWI service. Known as MacLeod's Highlander's, it was originally numbered 73rd when it was formed in 1777 and re-numbered 71st in 1786. Since it was on active service in India when the AWI ended it was not disbanded but remained 'on the books.'

Macleod's was hardly the first clan-based regiment since there were several formed during the Seven Years War, including the original Fraser's number 78th. It might be fair to say that Macleod's 73rd , later the 71st, was the oldest surviving Highland regiment in the Regular army raised on a clan basis, although it has to be said there is an element of Romantic 'tartanry' in that notion.

The Troiani illustration posted previously shows a man of the 71st as he would have been when he arrived in America, in plaid and fully accoutred with firelock bayonet and broadsword. By the time the 71st were sent southward in 1778, after two years service they had become more streamlined.

There are no contemporary pictures of men of the 71st to illustrate the length of their jackets as worn in the field in the middle and later years of the AWI up to 1781. The della Gatta paintings of Paoli Tavern and Germantown illustrate the adapted clothing worn by the light coys of line infantry attached to the 2nd Light Infantry battalion in the form of jackets made from cut-down red waistcoats with sleeves attached. The light infantry of the 71st, attached to 2nd LI Bn may well have followed suit while still wearing their Highland bonnets instead of 'slouched' black felt hats worn by the rest. The Light Infantry also wore white, summer weight, linen 'pantaloons.'

It is known that Highland troops in America, particularly the Light Infantry and Grenadiers attached to the Flank battalions, did exchange their plaids and small kilts for either breeches and gaiters or trousers (of blue or brown wool 'cloth') in the winter, or linen trousers ('pantaloons') in the summer). Where Troani found the evidence of th 71st wearing tartan trews I can't recall but worn-out kilts were certainly made into trews in the Peninsula (I recall reading that the full length plaids of the 71st were put in store and given to another 'provincial' Highland regiment raised in America).

Troiani- 71st. 42nd RHR
main.jpg Gren 42nd 1779-80 Troiani.jpg

Lt. James Stewart, Light coy, 42nd RHR circa 1777-80
Lt James Stuart 42nd Light Coy.jpg
As for the badge in question being worn as a bonnet badge, it is not likely. Cap badges did not evolve in the British army until the 19th century. The equivalent in the C18th was the black cockade of Hanover, or 'rosette'. Any badge is more likely to have been a coat button with the regimental number worn to secure the spray of ostrich feathers behind the rosette (This was certainly the practice later). How long that arrangement would have survived the vicissitudes of campaigning is another matter.

Regarding the ?Savannah museum reconstruction of a bonnet of the 71st, it is a noble effort but it is innaccurate in many details. The diced band of the Highland bonnet is now known to have been integral to the knitted body of the bonnet. The rosette is more likely have been circular. The red cut-feather 'hackle' was not seen on Highland bonnets till considerably later. Until the late C18th distinguishing feathers were coloured ostrich feathers worn across the front of the main body of black ostrich feathers.

Officers of the 42nd RHR circa 1777
Capt Valentine Chisholm c.1777.jpg

Officers and man of the 42nd RHR circa1791
kays_v1_p_Page_270-1.gif42nd Regt (RHR) c.1791 (Dayes).jpg

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Old 05 Feb 15, 06:43
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Officer of 71st

I forgot this image of an officer who served in the 71st during the AWI period- Duncan Macpherson of Cluny. Not a very good C19th copy, I believe, of an C18th original at Edinburgh Castle. I may be wrong there but the original can be seen reproduced (in b/w) in Stuart Reid's '18th Century Highlanders' in the Osprey series.

Although somebody seems to have added crude foxtails to the right-hand side, the detail of the cockade and button arrangement appears to be faithful.

[ EDIT: This is, in fact, an image of the original.]

Duncan Macpherson of Cluny, Lt. Col. 19th (or 13th) Chief.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaņiard View Post
1783 March 19th. Headquarters Records of the British Army in America. Return of clothing and necessarys embezzled and lost. P.R.O. 30./55, Vol. 65, pp. 7164-6... 71st Regiment of (Highland) Foot light Infantry, red feathers. .
The above citation appears to relate to a document from March 1783 that dealt with replacement of uniform items required by British troops in captivity after Yorktown. In the actual record, there is no mention of feathers under the heading for 71st Regt.

Just to avoid confusion, the War Office record referring to red feathers worn by the 71st is this one: WO 26/29/149 GD153/Box 1/Bundle 5
It is an account (bill) dated 13 August 1783 from an outfitter in Scotland who had supplied 'Necessaries' to the several companies of the 71st Regiment "While in North America."

The items listed in the account - "212 Ostrich Feathers, 36 Red Feathers" - indicate that in the latter period of the war the Light Company of the 71st Regiment had been wearing bonnet feathers at a ratio of five black ostrich feathers to a single red feather (presumably ostrich, as well). The ratio extrapolated from the figures may be misleading since in the same bill the Grenadiers apparently wore "108 Ostrich feathers" and "39 White Feathers" - an apparent ratio of just under three to one. The figures, therefore, could be relatively random.

This should not be associated directly with the unreliable anecdote published in Stewart of Garth's 'Sketches of the Highlanders' (1822) relating to a red feather adopted by the 71st Regiment in the northern theatre circa 1777 and worn till the end of the war in memory of their late Colonel, Hon. John Maitland (who allegedly had ordered the feather to be worn).

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jf42 View Post


The above citation appears to relate to a document from March 1783 that dealt with replacement of uniform items required by British troops in captivity after Yorktown. In the actual record, there is no mention of feathers under the heading for 71st Regt.

Just to avoid confusion, the War Office record referring to red feathers worn by the 71st is this one: WO 26/29/149 GD153/Box 1/Bundle 5
It is an account (bill) dated 13 August 1783 from an outfitter in Scotland who had supplied 'Necessaries' to the several companies of the 71st Regiment "While in North America."



The items listed in the account - "212 Ostrich Feathers, 36 Red Feathers" - indicate that in the latter period of the war the Light Company of the 71st Regiment had been wearing bonnet feathers at a ratio of five black ostrich feathers to a single red feather (presumably ostrich, as well). The ratio extrapolated from the figures may be misleading since in the same bill the Grenadiers apparently wore "108 Ostrich feathers" and "39 White Feathers" - an apparent ratio of just under three to one. The figures, therefore, could be relatively random.

This should not be associated directly with the unreliable anecdote published in Stewart of Garth's 'Sketches of the Highlanders' (1822) relating to a red feather adopted by the 71st Regiment in the northern theatre circa 1777 and worn till the end of the war in memory of their late Colonel, Hon. John Maitland (who allegedly had ordered the feather to be worn).

Headquarters Records of the British Army in America. Return of clothing and necessarys embezzled and lost. P.R.O. 30./55, Vol. 65, pp. 7164-6. 71st Regiment of (Highland) Foot light Infantry, red feathers.

Thanks for clarifying, the “1783” record on red feathers, I was confused on that one, true for the 71st no mention of feathers, as previously stated I lost those notes.


Garth Sketches in 1822 alluded to old Tappan 1778, that involved Lady Washington Dragoons, however worn post Maitland’s death once the siege of Savannah was lifted 1779 according to the anecdote?


Maj.-Gen. James Stirling 1822 recollection; “the red feather was worn by the 42nd, and 2nd LI Batt “early 1776 in AWI, to make things uniform, whole.” It’s to be noted he first appears in the 42nd of Foot 1778 muster roll as Ensign 22 Apr. 1777, with in a year promoted Lieutenant, therefore wasn’t present when Howe supposedly ordered the 42nd to wear red feathers?


Like stated museum repos are common, Montreal etc are filled with them. That display on the 71st Line Infantry at the Savannah museum is a modern day reproduction, I asked if the badge is also a repo waiting for response.
Quote:
The items in the case are modern reproductions. I have copied our Director of Interpretation on my reply and if he has additional information he will let you know.

Sincerely,

Lydia Moreton




Make no mistake, I’m no badge uniform savant, or collector, however Franklin states two cartouche badges?



In British Army Uniforms of the American Revolution by Franklin; p 143.

The twenty-nine round cartridge pouch: “The badge was worn on the pouch; “the ‘alternative badge’ carried on the pouch.” The front view showing the method of retaining the badge by three split pins on the inside of the flap…..”

Franklin p.142 illustration # 3, 50 Regiment of Foot badge worn on the pouch, is different to #4 the ‘alternative badge’ carried on the pouch. Issued two cartouche box badges?



Museum quality, asking $600. this is a 84th Regt of Foot The Highland Emigrants, back of badge. The picture, too big, see link.

http://prospectofwhitbyantiques.com/...130_140305.jpg



THE 42nd. ROYAL HIGHLAND REGIMENT (BLACK WATCH) 1784 LOYALIST SETTLERS TO THE NASHWAAK VALLEY, YORK CO., NEW BRUNSWICK.
“The Dugald Campbell Grant” was the tract of land allocated to the 42nd. Royal Highland Regiment on the Nashwaak River in the Parish of St. Mary‟s, York County. The southern boundary met that of “The Lyman Grant” at present day McBean Brook and extended up the river to the mouth of Cross Creek. Both the Lyman Grant and that of the Highlanders was surveyed by Lt. Dugald Campbell. He reserved a large block of land for himself in both grants. Lt. Campbell also surveyed the Fredericton Town Plot, and his surveying equipment is currently on display in Fredericton City Hall, along with a wall-hanging in Council Chambers depicting him in full 42nd. Royal Highland Regimental dress of the time including red heckle.



I contacted Fredericton City Hall see if I can get Picture, year painted etc.




.

Last edited by Spaņiard; 05 Feb 15 at 13:36..
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