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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Warfare by Other Means

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Warfare by Other Means Economics, demographics, cultural, technological, and other factors that have affected the course of history.

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  #1  
Old 17 Jan 15, 11:17
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Globalization

Usually associated with third world resistance to western influence, the developed nations are also feeling the effects.

The Limits of European Integration

Quote:
Conscious of the dangers of nationalism, after World War II Europeans sought to weaken the nation-state and progressively replace it with the European Union, a grouping of supranational institutions that, over time, were meant to create a supranational European identity. The idea worked for some time, especially at the economic level, where institutions quickly achieved integration. But over the past few years, several changes in Europe have exposed the limits of the project.
Read more: Europe Rediscovers Nationalism | Stratfor http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/eur...#axzz3OphIb9lE
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  #2  
Old 17 Jan 15, 11:30
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The EU had potential but I think it is failing as a concept.

The EU economies combined are a rival for the US, Japan and China, in GDP terms. This economic bulk has not translated into robust economic performance, though it has delivered a vast, expensive and, to my eyes, self serving bureaucracy that sucks up tax payers money.

It is also involved the creation of a number of political and law making bodies that to my politics are sickeningly left wing. The crowning achievement of this ultra liberalism is the Human Rights Act, a charter for illegal immigrants.

Speaking more broadly, Globalisation has sharpened the divide between winners and losers. Inefficiency is punished mercilessly. It has probably made for a more angry and violent world but I doubt there is any going back.
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Old 17 Jan 15, 11:35
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From my pov that feeling of nationalism (not a bad word in this sense) the EU is only recognized at the government levels. The French remain French, the Germans, German and the Italians Italian. Few if any think of themselves first as being EU, but French etc. Fortunately. Being EU loses all identity. Do I want a EU pizza with and EU wine? Not I nor most Europeans.
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Last edited by Half Pint John; 17 Jan 15 at 14:02..
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  #4  
Old 17 Jan 15, 12:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
From my pov that felling of nationalism (not a bad word in this sense) the EU is only recognized at the government levels. The French remain French, the Germans, German and the Italians Italian. Few if any think of themselves first as being EU, but French etc. Fortunately. Being EU loses all identity. Do I want a EU pizza with and EU wine? Not I nor most Europeans.
I'm rowing back a bit on my previous post here but that EU largess paid for me to complete part of my undergraduate degree in Strasbourg. I was a poor student of French at school but my experience of living in France gave me a massively enhanced view of French people and culture. In that sense it made me feel more European. For the most part though, I think most Brits would agree with your sentiments.

Europe should work together as best as possible without this very intense legal and political integration.
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Old 17 Jan 15, 13:15
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EU should work on removing the borders within. Freedom of movement, economical integration, and all that. The nations should still remain nations, and they will of course.
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Old 17 Jan 15, 13:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karri View Post
EU should work on removing the borders within. Freedom of movement, economical integration, and all that. The nations should still remain nations, and they will of course.
As an Island nation, the UK is uncomfortable with free movement of people we cannot control. Just look at the camp of illegals in Calais trying to get in.

Economic integration has proved itself a disaster already. The UK is much more in tune with American business culture and many of our biggest companies are Anglo-American operations . In that sense the channel is wider than the Atlantic.
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Old 17 Jan 15, 13:24
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With reference to your 'EU Pizza'.
We recently had our bathroom done. The tiles came from Spain, the work men were Polish but the organisers were British, John Lewis.
I have a car with a German name built in the US, my wife has one with a German name built in Germany. I bank with the second largest bank in the world which has a Chinese name but is owned and run by British citizens.
Trade and multinational ownership is what enables us to live the comfortable lives that we do.
Where the EU fails is where it seeks to disrupt trade through tariffs on non-EU goods or through too much internal bureaucracy. The ideal EU would be an organisation whose sole purpose was to enhance and enable trade.
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Old 17 Jan 15, 13:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karri View Post
EU should work on removing the borders within. Freedom of movement, economical integration, and all that. The nations should still remain nations, and they will of course.
If anything- the recent attacks in France cause states within the E.U to reestablish firmer borders.
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Old 19 Jan 15, 06:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrey View Post
With reference to your 'EU Pizza'.
We recently had our bathroom done. The tiles came from Spain, the work men were Polish but the organisers were British, John Lewis.
I have a car with a German name built in the US, my wife has one with a German name built in Germany. I bank with the second largest bank in the world which has a Chinese name but is owned and run by British citizens.
Trade and multinational ownership is what enables us to live the comfortable lives that we do.
Where the EU fails is where it seeks to disrupt trade through tariffs on non-EU goods or through too much internal bureaucracy. The ideal EU would be an organisation whose sole purpose was to enhance and enable trade.
While I also have a mulit nation car, furniture from Italy and Sweden has nothing to do with the EU input. As a one a time fan of the EU they lost it when they started coming out with EU norms for food, drinks etc. Usually failing in the results. Do you remeber when they tried to standardize a glass of beer? No more pint at the pub nor a 1/2 at the Gasthaus. When they try to standardize local culture then they have gone to far and just wasting large amounts of money.
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Old 19 Jan 15, 23:47
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I was talking to someone about trade with China and during the course of the conversation we agreed that, all other things being equal, free trade was a good thing. The obvious catch being that very few things are actually equal in both the US and China at this time.
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Old 20 Jan 15, 00:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
While I also have a mulit nation car, furniture from Italy and Sweden has nothing to do with the EU input. As a one a time fan of the EU they lost it when they started coming out with EU norms for food, drinks etc. Usually failing in the results. Do you remeber when they tried to standardize a glass of beer? No more pint at the pub nor a 1/2 at the Gasthaus. When they try to standardize local culture then they have gone to far and just wasting large amounts of money.
Completely agree with you.
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Old 20 Jan 15, 05:05
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Completely agree with you.
The one that sticks in my mind was EU standard bananas with minimal bend, though I think it was dropped in the end.
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Old 20 Jan 15, 10:42
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The one that sticks in my mind was EU standard bananas with minimal bend, though I think it was dropped in the end.
Size and shape of the holes in the Comté cheese.Not stupid this one indeed..
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Old 20 Jan 15, 10:50
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Originally Posted by Karri View Post
EU should work on removing the borders within. Freedom of movement, economical integration, and all that. The nations should still remain nations, and they will of course.
In a terrorist-free world, perhaps. Not these days.
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Old 21 Jan 15, 23:18
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For now some EU members are taking a step backwards, however, I think the greater integration of EU economies is inevitable. To me it's not a matter of if but when it is eventually accomplished.

I don't think they will have any choice except to dive with their feet in the water. Either they will find a way to make it work or risk having everything they worked so hard to accomplish falling apart.

Give it a couple of decades and you will be surprised to see the EU going in the direction where no one thought it would be possible to witness today.
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