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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion

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American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion Military history of North America. .

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  #121  
Old 26 Jul 15, 20:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
But that all came so much later. Oldest Spanish settlement in the US dates to 1534 iirc. English 1607. Germans remain the largest ethnic group in the US but we still don't speak German in the States, damn it.
The "Dutchies" in Pennsylvania and Ohio do, not that there's very many of them but they're there. Well to be fair, Pennsylvania Dutch is about as much German as Creole is French but it's still not much worse than what the Swiss call German.

Even more important is French which is a primary language in Canada and is by far the third most spoken language in North America.
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  #122  
Old 26 Jul 15, 21:24
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There are some Texas Germans that still speak Deutsch but otherwise sound Texan. Most of the German settlers in Louisiana were absorbed into the Cajun Culture. A couple of very small communities like Robert's Cove put on a good Oktoberfest. My oldest Grandson took four years of High School German, but there is not a whole lot of German ancestry there. I think he is more Swedish from his Father's side.

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  #123  
Old 26 Jul 15, 22:53
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Er, John ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
REALLY, when it is all said and done who was first is just about meaningless WE,WE the people of the Americas are here. We speak English and Spanish as our main languages. Who may have come before are next to meaningless.
... the OP says "Muslims found Americas before Columbus says Turkey's Erdogan" -Americas is not synonymous with Americans, it should be, but the USA'ers claim it for themselves, which is why "United States of Columbia" should come into popular usage for you Columbians, and Columbian ex-patriots.

"Americans" of the countries of the Americas also speak Portuguese (over 200,000,000 Brazilians), French (Canada has 2 official languages), Dutch, Danish, and a variety of First Nation indigenous languages and patois.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas

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  #124  
Old 27 Jul 15, 05:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
... the OP says "Muslims found Americas before Columbus says Turkey's Erdogan" -Americas is not synonymous with Americans, it should be, but the USA'ers claim it for themselves, which is why "United States of Columbia" should come into popular usage for you Columbians, and Columbian ex-patriots.

"Americans" of the countries of the Americas also speak Portuguese (over 200,000,000 Brazilians), French (Canada has 2 official languages), Dutch, Danish, and a variety of First Nation indigenous languages and patois.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas
Given that Columbus tripped over the West Indies and didn't have any real notion of where he was or what he'd found calling the USA Columbia is a bit off beam. Cabotia perhaps?

Mind you if Groucho Marx was still around to run for president - Freedonia

BTW did you mean expatriates? Or are you referring to citizens of the USA who no longer support their own country? Back to the Confederates again.
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  #125  
Old 27 Jul 15, 06:49
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Marmat you do understand this simple sentence?

We speak English and Spanish as our main languages

Most of those languages on your chart are spoken by less than 100,000.

What did the Crown call the 13 Colony's?
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  #126  
Old 27 Jul 15, 11:11
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Er, John ...

Quote:
Marmat you do understand this simple sentence?

We speak English and Spanish as our main languages

Most of those languages on your chart are spoken by less than 100,000.

... I understand the sentence, it's just TOO SIMPLE, and chauvinistic, that's the problem! And that's not normally like you.


Quote:
What did the Crown call the 13 Colony's?
Too simple again, which Crown? Portuguese? Spanish? French? And when? After the departure of said colonies, the British Crown reorganized the remaining 20 colonial entities on the North American continent, or just offshore, as "British North America". That included familiar places such as East and West Florida, Nova Scotia, the Canadas etc., but didn't include the British Colonies in the Caribbean, or Bermuda, familiar places like the Falkland Islands, Honduras, Guiana, although they certainly remained in the "Americas".

When French colonists left France for the St. Lawrence and Fundy in the 17th Century, they didn't travel to "Canada" or "Acadia", they travelled to "L'Amérique"; it's in their diaries. They referred to the English to the south as "Les Bastonnais".
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  #127  
Old 27 Jul 15, 12:00
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What, do you ...

Quote:
Given that Columbus tripped over the West Indies and didn't have any real notion of where he was or what he'd found calling the USA Columbia is a bit off beam. Cabotia perhaps?

Mind you if Groucho Marx was still around to run for president - Freedonia


... really think that Amerigo Vespucci has a greater claim over naming the USA, than the nicely anglicized Christopher Columbus? I can see the former getting a Portuguese speaking country in South America, Vespucciland or something, but not somewhere in North America too. Residents of the loose federation of breakaway British colonies to the north clearly didn't know what they were doing when they meekly allowed themselves to be named by some flunky mapmaker in Europe. Then some uppity South American country went and stole their rightful name!

"United States of Columbia", I LIKE IT!



Oh yeah, Cabotia's in the Canadian Maritimes somewhere, Fredonia's in New York, west of Buffalo; stayed there once, it's like Dull, in the county of Perth and Kinross in Scotland, but without the nightlife.

Quote:
BTW did you mean expatriates? Or are you referring to citizens of the USA who no longer support their own country? Back to the Confederates again
.

I most certainly did! I misspelled it somehow, enough that my spellchecker suggested something totally Freudian and convinced me while I was unawares - but I take full responsibility.
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  #128  
Old 27 Jul 15, 13:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
What did the Crown call the 13 Colony's?
The treaty that ended the War of Independence gives the answer:

The Definitive Treaty of Peace 1783

In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity.

It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the hearts of the most serene and most potent Prince George the Third, by the grace of God, king of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, defender of the faith, duke of Brunswick and Lunebourg, arch-treasurer and prince elector of the Holy Roman Empire etc., and of the United States of America, to forget all past misunderstandings and differences that have unhappily interrupted the good correspondence and friendship which they mutually wish to restore, and to establish such a beneficial and satisfactory intercourse , between the two countries upon the ground of reciprocal advantages and mutual convenience as may promote and secure to both perpetual peace and harmony; and having for this desirable end already laid the foundation of peace and reconciliation by the Provisional Articles signed at Paris on the 30th of November 1782, by the commissioners empowered on each part, which articles were agreed to be inserted in and constitute the Treaty of Peace proposed to be concluded between the Crown of Great Britain and the said United States, but which treaty was not to be concluded until terms of peace should be agreed upon between Great Britain and France and his Britannic Majesty should be ready to conclude such treaty accordingly; and the treaty between Great Britain and France having since been concluded, his Britannic Majesty and the United States of America, in order to carry into full effect the Provisional Articles above mentioned, according to the tenor thereof, have constituted and appointed, that is to say his Britannic Majesty on his part, David Hartley, Esqr., member of the Parliament of Great Britain, and the said United States on their part, John Adams, Esqr., late a commissioner of the United States of America at the court of Versailles, late delegate in Congress from the state of Massachusetts, and chief justice of the said state, and minister plenipotentiary of the said United States to their high mightinesses the States General of the United Netherlands; Benjamin Franklin, Esqr., late delegate in Congress from the state of Pennsylvania, president of the convention of the said state, and minister plenipotentiary from the United States of America at the court of Versailles; John Jay, Esqr., late president of Congress and chief justice of the state of New York, and minister plenipotentiary from the said United States at the court of Madrid; to be plenipotentiaries for the concluding and signing the present definitive treaty; who after having reciprocally communicated their respective full powers have agreed upon and confirmed the following articles.

Article 1:

His Brittanic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz., New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be free sovereign and independent states, that he treats with them as such, and for himself, his heirs, and successors, relinquishes all claims to the government, propriety, and territorial rights of the same and every part thereof.

The full treaty is here.
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  #129  
Old 27 Jul 15, 13:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
But that all came so much later. Oldest Spanish settlement in the US dates to 1534 iirc. English 1607. Germans remain the largest ethnic group in the US but we still don't speak German in the States, damn it.
Nieuw Nederland was founded in 1614, only seven years after Jamestown, and would have lasted a good long time were it not for those greedy Scotsmen. And you, John, should be thankful to the Dutch: it was the Dutch, not the English, who gave the New World its notion of religious freedom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
There are some Texas Germans that still speak Deutsch but otherwise sound Texan. Most of the German settlers in Louisiana were absorbed into the Cajun Culture. A couple of very small communities like Robert's Cove put on a good Oktoberfest. My oldest Grandson took four years of High School German, but there is not a whole lot of German ancestry there. I think he is more Swedish from his Father's side.
In his magnum opus, "The Years of Lyndon Johnson," Robert Caro described in some detail the German communities of West Texas, where German was spoken daily into the 1970s. While certain aspects of German culture, like cuisine and religion, remained quite visible in New York through the 1980s, I don't think I heard the language spoken aloud. I'm guessing that that was a result of the two world wars, when popular views of German culture and German people grew decidedly negative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Marmat you do understand this simple sentence?
He's Canadian: cut him some slack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
We speak English and Spanish as our main languages
That's almost an accident of fate, as countless immigrant communities throughout the country held on to the old ways and the old tongues for two or three generations before going under.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Most of those languages on your chart are spoken by less than 100,000.
Doesn't make them any less valid -- unless you're submitting them to a popularity contest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
What did the Crown call the 13 Colony's?
Troublemakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
... really think that Amerigo Vespucci has a greater claim over naming the USA, than the nicely anglicized Christopher Columbus? I can see the former getting a Portuguese speaking country in South America, Vespucciland or something, but not somewhere in North America too. Residents of the loose federation of breakaway British colonies to the north clearly didn't know what they were doing when they meekly allowed themselves to be named by some flunky mapmaker in Europe. Then some uppity South American country went and stole their rightful name!

"United States of Columbia", I LIKE IT!
How did the late great wise man Sam Kinison put it?

"They're sending me to Colombia; going to fight the drug war."

"Put me on the front line!" [sniff]


I never could develop a taste for the nose candy, so perhaps it's just as well the US is named what it's named, rather than after a Bolivarian Republic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
Oh yeah, Cabotia's in the Canadian Maritimes somewhere, Fredonia's in New York, west of Buffalo; stayed there once, it's like Dull, in the county of Perth and Kinross in Scotland, but without the nightlife.
Is there any population left in Fredonia? if you wanted to see something dead and something dieing, why didn't you just keep going west, to Eire PA and Cleveland OH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
I most certainly did! I misspelled it somehow, enough that my spellchecker suggested something totally Freudian and convinced me while I was unawares - but I take full responsibility.
So what are you saying, that you're voting Bloc Québécois in the next election?
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  #130  
Old 27 Jul 15, 16:13
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Quote:
Troublemakers.
slick

Quote:
He's Canadian: cut him some slack
Then that is at least two of you.
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  #131  
Old 28 Jul 15, 12:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmackUm View Post
The invention of the boat seems to play an important part in most theory's of human dispersal.
There is a theory that Homo Erectus may have invented the first boat some 500,000 to 1 Million years ago.
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/08..._a_063351.html

The Earliest Historic Village in North America is Meadow Croft Rock Shelter @ 16,000 years just south of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
Probably a cool place to visit on a hot summers day!
http://www.heinzhistorycenter.org/meadowcroft/

Regards,

Patrick
I'm heading to Meadowcroft in a couple of weeks.
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  #132  
Old 27 Nov 17, 14:34
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Being most recent and closest thread in topic;
The Chinese may have beaten the famous voyage of Columbus by 70 years

https://www.theepochtimes.com/uplift...s_2361069.html
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  #133  
Old 27 Nov 17, 14:52
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Well, "Specifically, Menzies makes mention to a map charted by Admiral Zheng He which appears to show North American rivers and coasts and something of South America" seems to neglect the fact that the Yongle Emperor, Zhu Di, basically scuppered all Chinese shipping and became pretty isolationist.
In that light, it sounds more a sensationalist story than peer reviewed. That in itself does not mean nothing happened, but more supporting evidence is clearly needed, as any academic would know. Especially flying in the face of Imperial policy that had bad consequences if one disobeyed.
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