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American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion Military history of North America. .

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  #31  
Old 22 Jun 15, 12:16
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  #32  
Old 22 Jun 15, 18:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki View Post
There are some who believe the Chinese were the first to discover America.
Leaving absolutely nothing behind to support such a claim?
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  #33  
Old 22 Jun 15, 19:11
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http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...825828/?no-ist

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clovis_point

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  #34  
Old 22 Jun 15, 19:39
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Okay everyone.... cool..... Piri Reis did author the map showing North America in some navigational detail. In the early 16th c. He also was a great Admiral and cartographer of some standing. It is very doubtful he ever landed there, given how busy he was fighting the Portuguese in the Mediterranean and 'liberating' the Portuguese hold on Oman. I think that Erdoğan is given to more than a few flights of fantasy and kind of misses the point of history in that while Arab (or Islamic) seafaring was of a high order in world terms at the time, the main interest in the Arab/Islamic world pre 16th c. was concerned with the 'silk road of the sea' i.e. trade with the Far-East and china as well as trade along the East African coast as one can find detail in the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea. The whole political geography shows... not to mention evidence, that the spice trade, the trade in porcelain and metalwork in the eastern regions was far more important at that time than thoughts of what may have been beyond the Atlantic. The Vikings are another separate matter. Think Erdoğan has had too many Ramadan sweets and not sleeping well.
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  #35  
Old 22 Jun 15, 20:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
... a sod roofed Viking Mosque, next to the Church in L'Anse aux Meadows?

It's not a mosque - the Christian cross clearly identifies it.
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  #36  
Old 22 Jun 15, 20:38
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What ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
It's not a mosque - the Christian cross clearly identifies it.
... and you don't think I knew that BEFORE I posted this?

Let me put it another way:

The picture below is of the sod-roofed Viking Christian Church at L'Anse aux Meadows; now try and visualize a sod roofed Viking Mosque, next to the that Church??

Seriously, am I that difficult to understand?

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  #37  
Old 22 Jun 15, 20:48
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  #38  
Old 23 Jun 15, 06:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lāčplēsis View Post
Okay everyone.... cool..... Piri Reis did author the map showing North America in some navigational detail. In the early 16th c. He also was a great Admiral and cartographer of some standing. It is very doubtful he ever landed there, given how busy he was fighting the Portuguese in the Mediterranean and 'liberating' the Portuguese hold on Oman. I think that Erdoğan is given to more than a few flights of fantasy and kind of misses the point of history in that while Arab (or Islamic) seafaring was of a high order in world terms at the time, the main interest in the Arab/Islamic world pre 16th c. was concerned with the 'silk road of the sea' i.e. trade with the Far-East and china as well as trade along the East African coast as one can find detail in the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea. The whole political geography shows... not to mention evidence, that the spice trade, the trade in porcelain and metalwork in the eastern regions was far more important at that time than thoughts of what may have been beyond the Atlantic. The Vikings are another separate matter. Think Erdoğan has had too many Ramadan sweets and not sleeping well.
Too much omali you think?

Maps can be tricky. The Portugese had maps with Australia on them long before Cook or Tasman ever got there but there is no evidence that they ever went there themselves (probably learnt about it from local Asian voyagers) and they didn't tell anyone else about it because they didn't want other European nations using it as a base. Can they be credited as discovering it? No discover means reveal it (to the rest of the world)
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  #39  
Old 23 Jun 15, 08:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Too much omali you think?

Maps can be tricky. The Portugese had maps with Australia on them long before Cook or Tasman ever got there but there is no evidence that they ever went there themselves (probably learnt about it from local Asian voyagers) and they didn't tell anyone else about it because they didn't want other European nations using it as a base. Can they be credited as discovering it? No discover means reveal it (to the rest of the world)
Quite agree (also about the ommAli!). The Portuguese connection seems the most likely as the Atlantic would have been their pond as it were - as the Indian Ocean was to the Arabs, given the trade wind situation and the focus of interest for trade, fishing and so on.
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  #40  
Old 23 Jun 15, 09:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lāčplēsis View Post
Quite agree (also about the ommAli!). The Portuguese connection seems the most likely as the Atlantic would have been their pond as it were - as the Indian Ocean was to the Arabs, given the trade wind situation and the focus of interest for trade, fishing and so on.
Many authorities maintain that the Portuguese were also active in Australia well before the British and Dutch. Even that the Chinese were around.

But even if they were, and, indeed, even if there were Muslims in the Americas... so what ?
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  #41  
Old 23 Jun 15, 13:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BELGRAVE View Post
Many authorities maintain that the Portuguese were also active in Australia well before the British and Dutch. Even that the Chinese were around.

But even if they were, and, indeed, even if there were Muslims in the Americas... so what ?
well yes

The late Peter Simple a satirical columnist in the Daily Telegraph used to take the urea out these who discovered what first claims by writing pieces about the buried Aztec step pyramid under Chingford Library and long lost Mayan colonies in Bermondsy
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  #42  
Old 23 Jun 15, 14:44
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Originally Posted by BELGRAVE View Post
Many authorities maintain that the Portuguese were also active in Australia well before the British and Dutch. Even that the Chinese were around.

But even if they were, and, indeed, even if there were Muslims in the Americas... so what ?
Seeing that the Portuguese were active in the East, it would not necessarily be a shock that someone other than the British or Dutch landed on Australian shores. Chinese? More doubtful since the Yongle Emperor ordered all sea-going ships to be scuttled and became all isolationist for some time.

Does it matter? I refuse to loose sleep over the issue one way or the other. I just find it fatuous that Erdoğan is making claims that are not backed up by scholarship. If a Muslim or Confucius took a trip to Cuba well before Columbus I have no problem.

PS.. There IS a lost tribe of Incas in East London.....
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  #43  
Old 23 Jun 15, 15:22
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Originally Posted by Lāčplēsis View Post

PS.. There IS a lost tribe of Incas in East London.....
And if they've any sense they'll stay lost - don't really want HMRC coming round asking about VAT returns on your obsidian disembowelling knife business.
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  #44  
Old 23 Jun 15, 15:25
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And if they've any sense they'll stay lost - don't really want HMRC coming round asking about VAT returns on your obsidian disembowelling knife business.
thumup:
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  #45  
Old 25 Jun 15, 20:40
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If Muslims found America then thank god they failed to capitalize on the discovery. As a result, we are a prosperous country and we don't look, live and behave like the people in the photo below.

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