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  #1  
Old 26 Oct 14, 14:20
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Harpoon 3 Users

Has Harpoon 3 been outdated long enough to justify 59 bucks...?? Command: Modern Naval seems to a bit of a hodgepodge to me and needs more refinement..(My opinion only !!!!)..and I'm jonesing for a Naval Simulation...Needs to run on a MAC with Bootcamp or VmFusion...Price of Harpoon seems a bit steep for almost a decade old..If ua have it, can ya chime in !! ...Yes I have read ALL the reviews, was looking for up to date advise !
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  #2  
Old 30 Oct 14, 16:05
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I have both MNO and Harpoon3. Value is subjective. Here is how I see it. The Harpoon bundle comes with four versions of the game. I have added what I feel, IMO, the value of each version is worth.

Harpoon Classic Commanders' Edition [HCCE] ($20)
Harpoon3 [H3] v3.6.3 ($30)
Harpoon3 [ANW] v3.9.4 ($10)
Harpoon3 [HUE] v3.10.0 ($0)

Overall, as a bundle of games, I think it is okay for the $60 price tag since new scenarios are still being made for it and Harpoon ANW is the only naval wargame that actually has multi-player capability. Also, there are demos for both HCE and H3. I do not own a Mac, but there are numerous players who report no problem playing H3 on Bootcamp or VmFusion.

No demo exists for MNO and no way they will ever let you try the game before purchase. In fact, most players who try MNO end up asking themselves, "They want $80 for THIS!?"
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  #3  
Old 30 Oct 14, 19:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman Hum View Post
I have both MNO and Harpoon3. Value is subjective. Here is how I see it. The Harpoon bundle comes with four versions of the game. I have added what I feel, IMO, the value of each version is worth.

Harpoon Classic Commanders' Edition [HCCE] ($20)
Harpoon3 [H3] v3.6.3 ($30)
Harpoon3 [ANW] v3.9.4 ($10)
Harpoon3 [HUE] v3.10.0 ($0)

Overall, as a bundle of games, I think it is okay for the $60 price tag since new scenarios are still being made for it and Harpoon ANW is the only naval wargame that actually has multi-player capability. Also, there are demos for both HCE and H3. I do not own a Mac, but there are numerous players who report no problem playing H3 on Bootcamp or VmFusion.

No demo exists for MNO and no way they will ever let you try the game before purchase. In fact, most players who try MNO end up asking themselves, "They want $80 for THIS!?"
Thanks for your insight..I have read your reviews..(and others) regarding MNO..Ill wait for version 2.0 on that...Ill spring for Harpoon...Thanks..I have a new Windoze machine coming Saturday, so I can also reload Subsim as well..
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  #4  
Old 30 Oct 14, 19:42
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If you need any help with Harpoon or just want to fight some multi-player battle, let me know. Welcome aboard, shipmate.
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  #5  
Old 01 Dec 14, 18:37
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Hi Harpoon Afficionados,

I am new to announcing my scenarios on this forum, so I would like to introduce my series of battlesets in a fictitious war I have created called the Indochine War - taking place between 2007-2009. There have been 17 scenarios released thus far, and that has taken us through the first half of 2007.

A synopsis of this what-if war is written below. If it perks your interest, you can find the database and scenarios bundled within the PlayersDb Installation file under CasoDb. Please check it out and if you find it engaging, then you can look forward to a long line of scenarios in the future, as I will be at this for some time to come.

Thanks,
Alan Caso

************************************************** ******


THE INDOCHINE REGIME

This campaign is not for the purist. This is an eclectic composition of past and future platforms, that is made possible due to a "what if" historical scenario.

COMBAT TIME PERIOD: 2007-2010

HISTORY:
1992-1998


The early to mid-nineties sees China discover enormous oil deposits deep below the Southern Gobi Desert. These reserves are nearly as massive as the Saudi fields, extending off in branches as far north as the Russian Siberian tundra. Normally these deposits would be irretrievable because of their depth and the geological sub-strata, but a breakthrough by Chinese engineers and geologists unlock the secrets of this difficult extraction.

After the breakup of the Soviet Union, the Russian government struggles to find definition and structure. The discovery of the section of Chinese oil deposits which extend into Siberia gives a boost to the new fledgling Russian democracy. However, these deposits remain locked to the Russians deep beneath the surface, because they don't possess the necessary technology. China steps in and helps them retrieve the oil in exchange for the right to purchase much of the huge Russian fleet rusting in mothballs. In addition, they purchase the naval plans to all but a few of their surface platforms. The Russians are content to sit back and get rich selling their military hardware and new found oil. Giving up any last vestiges of being a projecting naval power, the Russians remain satisfied building up their defensive posture and staying behind the scenes.

On the other hand, the Chinese become a major naval power virtually overnight. Within a few short years, they create several carrier groups, cruiser squadrons and develop an amphibious capability second only to the US, while amassing large quantities of DDG's and FFG's. Their amazing ability to take ship plans and mothballed hulks from the former Soviet shipyards and copy and refit them with modernized weaponry is miraculous. In many of their shipyards, platforms are turned out in 210 to 240 days. Keeping in step are the Chinese naval academies and training facilities, creating an entire generation of highly motivated naval and air personnel, with a new cadre of young officers. Naval maneuvers and war games are stepped up to build experience and confidence. The Western Pacific becomes the personal playground for the Chinese navy, marines and air force.

Due to these extraordinary developments, the United States, United Kingdom and other NATO powers aggressively re-commission mothballed ships and step up development of platforms that are barely off the drawing board. By the mid nineties, the United States brings back recently decommissioned CV's, the Iowas, the Virginias and other CGN's. They reach back for mothballed Adams and Brooke units, and even re-commission surviving Leahy- and Belknap-class CG’s. All other scheduled decommissions are cancelled, and refits are conducted throughout the mothballed navy. The intent is to reinstitute a 700-ship navy as quickly as possible. A hawk is elected President in 1996, and the military arms race is ratcheted up. Development of the F/A-35 program goes forward full throttle, as well as many new weapons systems such as the AIM-120C9. The UK steps up the development of the Queen Elizabeth CV and Daring DDG programs while re-commissioning their older DDG's and FFG's such as the County's and Broadswords. The French put extra resources toward speeding up their Rafale program. France, Great Britain and Italy step up the joint Horizon Frigate project. Australia gets into the race by ordering two refitted Iwo Jima-class Carriers from the US and move forward with their River DDG program. For the first time in 20 plus years, the draft is reinstituted.

About the time that China finds oil, India discovers uranium - huge deposits that turn the country into a major player on the strategic game board. In addition, as if there was some divine entity driving the world into further chaos, diamond deposits are discovered by accident when a national company is strip-mining for iron ore - large and vast, these diamond deposits rival South African reserves. The Indian Government regales in its new-found wealth. Military activists gain control in the '94 elections and the arms build-up is underway, fueled by disputes with Pakistan.

THE BEGINNING OF THE INDOCHINE ALLIANCE
1998 - 2001


The late 90's find India and China realizing that it’s in their common interest to join together and determine the future of Asia. They form the Indochine Alliance. The fragile peace between Pakistan and India threatens the stability of their new alliance, so China attempts to broker an agreement between Pakistan and India. It offers Pakistan a seat at the table in return for their cooperation, although they require acknowledgement that India and China remain the final arbiters in all decisions. In lieu of these stipulations, US pressure on the Pakistani government wins out, and the Pakistan delegation steps away from the talks to claim a neutral position. However, they offer air space to the Allies for continued access to Afghanistan after the Allies make a heavy commitment to provide an increase in military hardware.

North Korea quickly steps on board the Indochine bandwagon, in all probability due to the fact that China dangles South Korea in front of their nose like a carrot. China shares its Russian naval windfall with India and the other members. The Indian shipyards take these plans and produce well-built versions of their own - cheaply and quickly. As the middle of the first decade in the new millennium approaches, the Indochine Alliance has a combined navy of over 800 ships!

THE START OF HOSTILITIES
2001 - 2006


The United States and her Allies, although lagging behind in the naval arms race, are quickly catching up with all their programs in re-commissioning, refitting, new ships and new weapons . However, this is side-tracked when the US is attacked in September, 2001. The Taliban, having been emboldened by the growing destabilization caused by the Indochine Alliance, carries out their terrorist operations. Saddam Hussein, believing that the rise of the Indochine Alliance preoccupies and threatens the US and her allies, begins to wave his stick around the Mideast once again. The American alliance invades Afghanistan and Iraq. By the end of 2006 the US and allies are still fully engaged in these conflicts; however, they have clearly begun to neutralize the two situations. Troop levels are being reduced, and plans for civil authority to be restored is about to be made a reality.

The US and Allies get their naval programs back up to full speed. However, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have seriously delayed their progress. This has undermined Allied plans for having enough resources to discourage any hostile expansion by the Indochines, and has curtailed their ability to respond to any first –strike action taken by the Indochine Alliance. This is not lost on the Indochine military planners. Believing the time is right to strike, the Indochine military machine makes its move.

In a well coordinated campaign, India strikes into Southeast Asia, taking control of Malaysia. While forming a shaky alliance with Myanmar, India threatens Thailand. Caught in the middle, Thailand agrees to join the Indochine Alliance and participates in the overthrow of the Cambodian and Laotian governments. Indonesia avidly joins the alliance, in the hopes of receiving new military hardware. The Indochine Alliance welcomes them eagerly, and provides them with limited naval and air materiel. Knowing their cooperation is invaluable in securing the oil fields there, the Alliance also sees Indonesia providing a buffer zone to Australia. The Chinese leave the administration of the Indian Ocean and the Indonesian theater to their Indian and Thai allies, while the south and western Pacific is the purview of the Chinese.

The Indochine Alliance is undecided about how to deal with Vietnam. The long and difficult history of discord between China and Viet Nam plagues policy makers in Beijing. All initial attempts at a dialogue offered by the Indochines had gone un-answered since the Alliance’s inception, but after the commencement of hostilities, Vietnam voluntarily joins the Regime, and a tenuous peace in Southeast Asia is achieved.

At the same time, Indochine forces invade and occupy Taiwan, the Philippines, and form a blockade around Japan and South Korea with the help of the North Koreans. Surprisingly, China restrains North Korea from invading South Korea. At first, the North Koreans are outraged, crying foul. Their understanding was that they were promised a free hand in the south. China manages to smooth their ruffled feathers. No doubt it's only a matter of time until South Korea is consumed. Behind this terrible drama, the Russians continue to ply the Indochine Alliance with more technology and materiel while making a bloody fortune.

In an effort to isolate Australia and control the trade routes across the Pacific, the Indochine forces strike out south and east towards the Solomons, New Guinea, Micronesia, the Marshalls, Tuvalu, Vanuatu and New Caledonia. Many of these islands and atolls were so valiantly liberated by the US Navy and Marines little more than sixty years before; the world sees them fall once again to dark forces. Although the Indochine Alliance is not nearly as oppressive and brutal as their Japanese predecessors, a foreign ruler still remains an insufferable one.

War is declared on the Indochine Alliance at the end of 2006, and countries around the globe align themselves with either the Allies, choose to remain neutral or opt for membership in the Indochine Alliance.

The immediate future sees the Alliance hoping to destabilize other areas in order to spread their influence for future expansion. Renegade nations in Africa and the Middle East are expected to align themselves soon with the Indochine Alliance after receiving heavy financial and military aid. Iran, whose fundamentalism finds a kinship with Indochine ideals, becomes their firmest ally in the Mid-East. In the Southwestern Hemisphere, South America is a ticking bomb. The many small republics comprising this continent find prestige in aligning themselves with major world powers. Therefore, pre-Indochine China spent many years cultivating relations with Peru, Ecuador, Argentina, Venezuela, and Cuba by offering to help through investment in refurbishing these nations’ infrastructures; another key strategy was buying their natural resources and providing military hardware. Now as the Indochine Alliance makes its move on the world stage, these countries are willing to align themselves with this extremely rich and resourceful benefactor. These restful nations accept the military hardware and technology in exchange for providing a staging area from which their masters will be able to strike deep into the very heart of the United States. Brazil and Chile remain neutral for the moment.

Spring – 2007:

By the beginning of 2007, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have stabilized. The result of the returned draft has helped fill the ranks of the United States and Allied services to full combat strength, with healthy reserves. These wars have also produced a military with veterans possessing combat experience unequalled anywhere else in the world. This experience is being passed on to the new rank and file. The Allied naval build-up is beginning to provide results from a program that has travelled a rocky road. The 700 ship navy is close at hand. This is how we find the situation at the beginning of this series of campaigns.

*****************
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  #6  
Old 01 Dec 14, 18:47
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Here is the announcement placed at other forums to announce the latest scenario and end of a third battleset for my "Indochine War" campaign. Please go to the forums at Harplonk to upload the entire previous series of scenarios and battlesets of the Caso Db within the Players Db.

************************************************** *******

End of 3rd Battleset – “Too Few Victories”

This following announcement for the scenario, “Islands In The Stream Pt 2”, is the seventeenth scenario and the last of the third battleset – “Too Few Victories”. The next battleset of the Indochine Campaign is “The Fifty Yard Line”. With luck and some hard work I will come out with the first scenario(s) sometime early next year with a projected series of 10 scenarios. I hope you check in and play.

Thanks,
Alan Caso

************************************************** ******

The 17th NEW Indochine Campaign Scenario

Islands In The Stream Pt 2

Southwest and Central Pacific:
North of the Solomons:

Federated States of Micronesia:

In the previous scenario, the Allies have taken Majuro in the Marshalls and Betio (Tarawa) in the Kiribati island group. This scenario finds the capitol of Palikir in eastern Micronesia as the target of the second offensive action taken by the allies in the war, and the final stage in securing the disparate island groups of the South Central Pacific - another gamble to free the Islands in the Stream.

Author: Alan Caso

This is the seventeenth scenario written for ANW and HUE using the customized CasoDB. The scenario and database are bundled within the PlayersDB installation file due to its phenomenal popularity and ease of use.

You can find the Players Db Installation files at the Harplonk Forum.
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  #7  
Old 04 Dec 14, 21:33
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Mgellis Mgellis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Holliday View Post
Has Harpoon 3 been outdated long enough to justify 59 bucks...?? Command: Modern Naval seems to a bit of a hodgepodge to me and needs more refinement..(My opinion only !!!!)..and I'm jonesing for a Naval Simulation...Needs to run on a MAC with Bootcamp or VmFusion...Price of Harpoon seems a bit steep for almost a decade old..If ua have it, can ya chime in !! ...Yes I have read ALL the reviews, was looking for up to date advise !
Command is definitely worth the money if it will run on your system. (I don't know if it runs on a Mac or not. It runs fine on my PC. As the song goes: FM...no static at all.)

Harpoon is a wonderful game, but it gets relatively little development these days. And almost no one is writing new scenarios for it. (Of course, it will probably take you a while to go through all the ones that have been written for it over the years.)

Command gets a LOT of support. And it was designed from the ground up to permit scenario development, so there are already about 200 scenarios for it. That's in the first year since its release.

More information can be found on the Matrix forums...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=1154

Command is actually on sale right now (as of 12/4/14)...you can get it for $50 download ($65 for a boxed copy). Here is the link...

http://www.matrixgames.com/store/483...e.Year.Edition

As for a "preview," Baloogan has a LOT of Command-related videos on Youtube. It will give you a good sense of how the game looks, plays, etc. Here is his web page and his Youtube channel...

http://baloogancampaign.com/

(his web page also includes documentation for the game's two gigantic databases so you can see what kind of platforms are available...thousands of ships, planes, subs, etc.)

http://www.youtube.com/user/baloogan

I hope this helps.

Mark
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Old 04 Jan 15, 16:02
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Ok here we go...

I do like the flexibility of Harpoon 3 Advanced Naval Warfare. But that said, I have to admit it really depends on the database you are using with the program. In ANW you can fight actions involving World War II up to the near future of naval warfare. Even now graphics are dated, Editors are complicated and have a learning curve, but you can do a lot with the H3:ANW sim. In fact if the database existed you could play H3:ANW all the way back to the Russo-Japanese War of 1905. ANW is hard caded for dates between 1900 to 2154.

Jane's/SCS Fleet Command is great in the graphics department. Also if you use the Naval Warfare Project database you can do some nice battles ifrom the Veitnam era to modern times. Again you have to learn the database to understand what you can do with it. With the NWP mod, well you get a very nice sim with a nice look and feel, but it isn't as flexible as ANW.

Naval Warfare: Arctic Circle, well i tried it, didn't like it, wasted my money on it. It is a joke. Its playing field is limited, its platforms are limited ans on.

Command MNO, well it is a good attempt to solve the issues of H. It looks good, and well I think it has posiblity, but 79 dollars is a joke for nothing more then an updated Harpoon. In fact its database is based on the DB2000 database that was developed for H3:ANW, and this gives it the same range of operational capabilities of ANW.

When you look at it, what you are getting in Command:MNO you get an updated version of the work that was started in the Harpoon series.

So once the bugs are worked out the price drops, then I believe it will make a good sim.
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Old 10 Jan 15, 10:59
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Again, I recommend the Baloogan videos to get a sense for how the game looks and plays.

http://baloogancampaign.com/

His site also includes documentation on the two databases, so you can see the range of platforms available. Frankly, they are pretty amazing. And the game also includes import files that lets you add hundreds of detailed versions of air bases and thousands of generic cities and airports (i.e., locations have already been set up so you don't have to track them down) from around the world.

Hands down, the Command databases and related features are simply better than any database for Harpoon.

(By the way, I think there are a lot fewer bugs in Command than in Harpoon. I love Harpoon, but it could be a very buggy game. Command has a few glitches, but nothing compared to Harpoon. And go to the Matrix forums and you will see how dedicated the developers are to catching and squashing bugs FAST.)
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Old 16 Jan 15, 19:34
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Herman Hum Herman Hum is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy31a View Post
I do like the flexibility of Harpoon 3 Advanced Naval Warfare. But that said, I have to admit it really depends on the database you are using with the program. In ANW you can fight actions involving World War II up to the near future of naval warfare. Even now graphics are dated, Editors are complicated and have a learning curve, but you can do a lot with the H3:ANW sim. In fact if the database existed you could play H3:ANW all the way back to the Russo-Japanese War of 1905. ANW is hard caded for dates between 1900 to 2154.

Jane's/SCS Fleet Command is great in the graphics department. Also if you use the Naval Warfare Project database you can do some nice battles ifrom the Veitnam era to modern times. Again you have to learn the database to understand what you can do with it. With the NWP mod, well you get a very nice sim with a nice look and feel, but it isn't as flexible as ANW.

Naval Warfare: Arctic Circle, well i tried it, didn't like it, wasted my money on it. It is a joke. Its playing field is limited, its platforms are limited ans on.

Command MNO, well it is a good attempt to solve the issues of H. It looks good, and well I think it has posiblity, but 79 dollars is a joke for nothing more then an updated Harpoon. In fact its database is based on the DB2000 database that was developed for H3:ANW, and this gives it the same range of operational capabilities of ANW.

When you look at it, what you are getting in Command:MNO you get an updated version of the work that was started in the Harpoon series.

So once the bugs are worked out the price drops, then I believe it will make a good sim.
The flexibility of Harpoon lies in its database editing capability. In Harpoon, any weapon, ship, plane (real or imagined) can be created at a whim. No other game allows for this capability, especially MNO. There are no artificial and arbitrary speed limits set on aircraft the way MNO does. Harpoon allows for realistic speeds according to real world data.

Some folks have made World War 2 databases. One player was even working on the WWI and Russo-Japanese war before he passed away.

To see the absurdity of unrealistic aircraft speeds, check out the review at 54min 44sec:

Modern Naval Ops Review (Steam v1.05)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy31a View Post
79 dollars is a joke
I couldn't agree more. MNO would have to drop to $30 to be worthwhile.
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  #11  
Old 12 Jul 15, 15:51
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04.0 The Fifty Yard Line

This is to announce the 4th Battleset of the Indochine Campaign, consisting of ten scenarios that occur during July-Aug of 2007.

As a stalemate begins to form across the world stage in the Indochine conflict, the balance of control is easily tipped one way or the other. Its first down, and ten to go at the fifty yard line. The question is, who has possession of the ball?


Author: Alan Caso

************************************************** ************

The 18th NEW Indochine Campaign Scenario

Operation Life Jacket

Central West and Northwest Pacific:

East of the Japanese Home Islands:

The Allies attempt running several groups of supply convoys past the Indochine blockade to bring food, arms and supplies to the beleaguered Japanese people and military. Amphibious Squadron 1 out of San Diego is shepherding this desperately needed care package.

Author: Alan Caso.

This is the eighteenth Indochine scenario written for ANW and HUE using the customized CasoDB. The scenario and database are bundled within the PlayersDB installation file due to its phenomenal popularity and ease of use.

Last edited by aotino; 12 Jul 15 at 16:21..
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  #12  
Old 15 Aug 15, 12:49
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The comment was made that no one is producing scenerios for Harpoon anymore, well that isn't exactly true. I am working with a group that is putting together a campaign built around a war in the Atlantic in 1969.
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Old 01 Sep 15, 22:55
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I have no idea who said that no one is producing scenarios for Harpoon, because there are new scenarios released every few weeks.

I can't wait to try your war in 1969.
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  #14  
Old 01 Sep 15, 23:59
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Mgellis is on the path to success [1-99]
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Originally Posted by Cowboy31a View Post
The comment was made that no one is producing scenerios for Harpoon anymore, well that isn't exactly true. I am working with a group that is putting together a campaign built around a war in the Atlantic in 1969.
There are certainly a few people still producing scenarios for Harpoon, but Command has attracted a LOT of scenario design talent. Nearly 300 scenarios have already been released--comparable to the 500 or so available with the PDB--and the game is less than two years old.

By the way, the beta version of the version 1.09 release is now available. Lots of new features, including EMP effects for nuclear warheads.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3923060
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  #15  
Old 02 Sep 15, 00:37
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I think that Mark David sums up the MNO scenario community efforts best as, "Seal Clubbing".

Quote:
I noticed that many, if not most, of the modern era scenarios being created are seal-clubbing expeditions; meaning, carrier groups with F-35, Super Hornets, Burkes, Ticos and LA-class subs, etc, against developing world hellholes whose' job it is only to spam whack-a-mole 3rd gen export jets for target practice and ancient Soviet era corvettes. Generally the only "threat" is an S-300 installation they bought from Russia or China.
If you think that a fun game is sailing your modern carrier battle group up to some third-world country (without either an air force or navy) and then bombing it back to the Stone Age, then MNO is definitely the right game for you. The rest of the world probably wants something more challenging and realistic, like Angry Birds.
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Last edited by Herman Hum; 02 Sep 15 at 00:42..
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