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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East > Gaza Conflicts

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Gaza Conflicts Discuss the series of conflicts between Israel and Gaza militants.

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  #31  
Old 19 Aug 14, 17:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
Qatar does send its money to civilians in Gaza
No, it directly funds Hamas, but hey, if you consider the two interchangeable then it's all you baby.
Quote:
If you want to claim that Qatar sends money to supply terrorists as opposed to supporting the people of Gaza, then I dont care, Qatar is an ally of the USA
You do realize you just officially condoned terrorism, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by marktwain View Post
I try to use calm , factual rational logic.
Sorry, can't see it.
  #32  
Old 19 Aug 14, 17:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani View Post
Israel will probably accept the concept, much like it had with all of the above, but not only will it not solve any of the problems- it will just make for a far worse next round...
Spoken as if the current round proved a walk in the roses for Israel.
  #33  
Old 19 Aug 14, 18:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
In 2011 the Washington Times reported that Qatar was providing weapons and funding to Abdelhakim Belhadj, leader of the formerly U.S. designated terrorist group, Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) and then leader of the conservative Islamist Al-Watan Party[65]
In December 2012 the New York Times accused the Qatari regime of funding the Al-Nusra Front, a U.S. government designated terrorist organization.[66] The Financial Times noted Emir Hamad's visit to Gaza and meeting with Hamas, another internationally designated terrorist organization.[67] Spanish football club FC Barcelona were coming under increasing pressure to tear up their £125m shirt sponsorship contract with the Qatar Foundation after claims the so-called charitable trust finances terrorist group Hamas. The fresh controversy follows claims made by the Spanish newspaper El Mundo that the Qatar Foundation had given money to extremist cleric Yusuf al Qaradawi who is an advocate of terrorism, wife beating and anti-semitism.[68]
In January 2013 French politicians again accused the Qatari Government of giving material support to Islamist groups in Mali and the French newspaper Le Canard enchaîné quoted an unnamed source in French military intelligence saying that “The MNLA [secular Tuareg separatists], al Qaeda-linked Ansar Dine and Movement for Unity and Jihad in West Africa have all received cash from Doha.”[69]




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-s...errorism#Qatar


Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani View Post
No, it directly funds Hamas, but hey, if you consider the two interchangeable then it's all you baby.

You do realize you just officially condoned terrorism, right?
Take it up with the USA gov, the USA is friends with Qatar.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5437.htm
  #34  
Old 19 Aug 14, 19:27
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The US is buddies with Saudi Arabia one of the chief exporters of Wahhabism. For some reason we seem to buddy up with some of the worst governments on the planet. Must be the money being donated to the political parties. We 'like' China which has some of the worst practices on the planet.

So just because the state dept likes a country doesn't mean that they are one of the good guys...

So again your arguments are fallacious...
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  #35  
Old 19 Aug 14, 21:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
My religious belief is not the topic of discussion here. What you asked for was a solution to the problem in Gaza and I gave you one.

I never claimed Palestinians are a slave race. How did that get that in your little head?
ok. I'll accept that you posted in 'good faith.'
For better or for worse, Land given up by the Palestinians to Israel " doesn't come back."( Two minor exceptions).

Secondly, they have been kicked around, misinterpreted, etc., to the point where the couple we have had posting here simply - left.

DNA studies show that Palestinians sit square in the middle of the Jewish Oriental sequence.

This is a Canaanite vs. Canaanite struggle. "They never left- "
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  #36  
Old 20 Aug 14, 01:18
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While the Qatari government has probably been pressured into cutting back on funding to Hamas, the same cannot be said for wealthy private individuals throughout the gulf region.

Hamas set to gain support, funding from Gaza battle

Quote:
Facing the Israel and Egyptian blockade, Hamas has been adapting its economic strategy for the long haul by investing in agriculture and trade to generate more local revenues, according to Gaza political analyst Hani Habib.

"The group has a keen economic mentality. They're good merchants," Habib said.

"I don't think Hamas's suffering is permanent. Its ability to bring in money gets limited at times, their methods may have to change. But they remain intact," he added.

Officials of the group refuse to discuss their financing and insist the bulk of their resources comes from donations by individuals in Arab and Muslim countries rather than states.
Hamas

Quote:
As a designated terrorist entity, Hamas is cut off from official assistance that the United States and European Union provide to the PLO in the West Bank. Historically, much of its funding came from Palestinian expatriates and private donors in the Gulf. In addition, some Islamic charities in the West have channeled money to Hamas-backed social service groups, prompting asset freezes by the U.S. Treasury.
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  #37  
Old 20 Aug 14, 03:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn239 View Post
Spoken as if the current round proved a walk in the roses for Israel.
Violent conflicts have the nature of not being a "walk in the roses", that given and all things considered it relatively was.

Of course it was harder then the past, this we owe to our mistakes in 2012, 2008-9 and 2005, for which we'll say the same about 2014 in, say, 2017...
  #38  
Old 20 Aug 14, 04:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marktwain View Post
Some of the gulf states may be able to contribute funds.
the Unrra says that the average Gazan , as of Sunday, has three litres of potable water, per day. In plus thirty degree heat. Infants can't be bathed, sewers are destroyed.

ANYTHING has to be better than the present situation.
The balanced budgets obviously are just an excuse, if Europe should ever switch to a "war economy" (allowing debt to arm themselves) again they'd dwarf whatever the the gulf states can throw at them.

I can see no West European nation eager to get involved in such an hornets nest however, the East-Europeans in the past could be swayed with money to contribute to mostly whatever, but I suspect they'll be looking at their own eastern border these days

I predict some diplomatic hoopla, some protest marches with Palestinian flags, numbering in the 1000s, and countermarches with other flags numbering in the 100s.

After that "..the needle returns to start of the song, and we all sing along like before."

Sadly.
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  #39  
Old 20 Aug 14, 09:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani View Post
Violent conflicts have the nature of not being a "walk in the roses", that given and all things considered it relatively was.
Right, because losing 10 times more troops in battle than the last go around is always the way to measure how close to the rose garden one is.

Anything but to admit that the current Israeli policy isn't working and that fresh ideas are needed, right?
  #40  
Old 20 Aug 14, 09:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
The balanced budgets obviously are just an excuse, if Europe should ever switch to a "war economy" (allowing debt to arm themselves) again they'd dwarf whatever the the gulf states can throw at them.
Not quite sure what the point of the EU is if not in large part to keep military spending way down.

Quote:
I can see no West European nation eager to get involved in such an hornets nest however, the East-Europeans in the past could be swayed with money to contribute to mostly whatever, but I suspect they'll be looking at their own eastern border these days
Europe might not be able to stick its head in the sand and hope it all goes away - CNN reports this morning that ISIS fanatics are recruiting large numbers of Europeans to the ME, and US officials are worried that they'll return home to commit terrorist attacks.
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Old 20 Aug 14, 10:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn239 View Post
Right, because losing 10 times more troops in battle than the last go around is always the way to measure how close to the rose garden one is.

Anything but to admit that the current Israeli policy isn't working and that fresh ideas are needed, right?
Any valid links to support your claims, or is this just bluster?
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  #42  
Old 20 Aug 14, 10:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn239 View Post
Not quite sure what the point of the EU is if not in large part to keep military spending way down.
You mean as sharing cost, or removing internal rivalries ?

Quote:
Europe might not be able to stick its head in the sand and hope it all goes away - CNN reports this morning that ISIS fanatics are recruiting large numbers of Europeans to the ME, and US officials are worried that they'll return home to commit terrorist attacks.
Yup and they will - the attack on the Jewish museum here recently was apparently carried out by a French Syria veteran.

On the level the EU operates however events like that are insignificant.

More of interest to police and intelligence communities than politicians.

Note that we're talking about a EU-UN force in Gaza here, not unilateral actions in Syria or Iraq - French and Brits are presumably on route as we speak if not already active there.

Germany and others have agreed to sell weapons to the Kurds etc..
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  #43  
Old 20 Aug 14, 10:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn239 View Post
Right, because losing 10 times more troops in battle than the last go around is always the way to measure how close to the rose garden one is.
You already showed your lack of understating of a battlefield and now you show your lack of reading comprehension.

I refer you to "Of course it was harder then the past".

That said, comparing Cast Lead to Protective Edge is wrong within itself and again, shows the lack of understanding of war.
It's like saying that the Allies did worse in WWII then in WWI because they had more casualties, not taking into account the time that lapsed, scope and length of warfare, the technological advancements, the change in doctrine, the urbanization, the enemy casualties, etc. etc. etc.

If friendly casualties is your only frame of reference you will always lose.
Quote:
Anything but to admit that the current Israeli policy isn't working and that fresh ideas are needed, right?
Again, if you actually read what I'm saying, always saying, is that the current Israeli doctrine isn't working. But who am I to burst your bubble?
  #44  
Old 20 Aug 14, 10:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn239 View Post
Europe might not be able to stick its head in the sand and hope it all goes away - CNN reports this morning that ISIS fanatics are recruiting large numbers of Europeans to the ME, and US officials are worried that they'll return home to commit terrorist attacks.
Which will bring yet more death raining down onto the Middle East. Europeans having their heads in the sand is far preferable than Europeans taking action, and turning a blind eye.

The only thing that stands between the forcible eviction of the Palestinians from their current holdings is world (ie, US and European) opinion, and the US is strongly pro-Israel. Kill enough Europeans, and Israel will get a free hand.

ISIS needs to grasp that pulling down the rotten fabric that is Syria or Iraq is a far different thing than pushing the EU into a hostile posture.

World opinion about wanton violence on thin pretexts is already lower than I have ever seen it in my lifetime. They really don't want to drop the bar much more.
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  #45  
Old 20 Aug 14, 10:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
Any valid links to support your claims, or is this just bluster?
During Cast Lead Israel lost 10 KIA, in Protective edge we had 56 KIA (referring only to soldiers, not civilians and only to killed, not wounded), that makes it 5.6 times, not 10 times like Glenn had mentioned.

Of course, as I told him, that isn't the only nor the major factor and as always- a bad perspective of the conduct of war. Just as a small example of how wrong this observation is- it fails to take into account the fact that Cast Lead lasted 23 days, while Protective Edge has been going so far for 37(?) days, making the KIA per day ration 0.43~ in Cast Lead and 1.51~ for Protective Edge a difference of only 2.2~ and the longer this round lasts the ratio is likely to further drop.

But, you know what they say about statistics...
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