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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > Ukrainian Crisis

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Ukrainian Crisis Discuss the unfolding crisis in Ukraine.

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  #46  
Old 13 Oct 14, 07:45
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Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
"Communist" is to many US Americans what "Fascist" is to many Russians here, shadows of the Cold War in one case, 2nd War the other.

Examples of successful propaganda - both.
You shouldn't forget the term "Fascists" is extensively used by the Left all over the world.
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  #47  
Old 13 Oct 14, 07:55
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As an adjective then - as in "fascist cops" ?

It is true some regard every nation state as fascist and will thus refer to every public servant as being "fascist" be it a train conductor a policeman or tax collector,

but I suspect that was more the prevalent in 70s and 80s, the German RAF or the Belgian CCC, for example used such rhetoric, while their rivals of course labelled them "Communist" terrorists.
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  #48  
Old 13 Oct 14, 08:28
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Originally Posted by Karri View Post
What registry number?

Unless we know exactly what it means it's impossible to say. The military hardly ever uses sequential order starting from 0(Ukraine doesn't have 93 brigades for example).

The picture does not offer much proof either, is it just two graves? And if so, why the numbers end in 2 and 4, should it not be 2 and 3 if the order is starting from zero? It could be too many things to be any one thing.
Great post, you argue about what it means without even being able to read Ukranian and understand what it says, well done, top marks.
It says, in Ukranian, реєстр, which is register, and then the number. Somehow I suspect you knew this.....

Last edited by Khepesh; 13 Oct 14 at 09:14..
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  #49  
Old 13 Oct 14, 10:16
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Originally Posted by Khepesh View Post
Great post, you argue about what it means without even being able to read Ukranian and understand what it says, well done, top marks.
It says, in Ukranian, реєстр, which is register, and then the number. Somehow I suspect you knew this.....
I am going by personal experience here, if you can prove me that the army uses this kind of sequential scheme to number the dead then by all means do so. Otherwise I am going to assume it doesn't, since it does so no where else either.

Also, it could read in Ethiopian for all I care and it still does not prove the numbering sequence either way, so your argument is rather flat on those grounds.

You do understand that register is just that, a register number. The number itself can follow any scheme, hell it can even have letters in it. This is not so hard to understand that I need to learn Ukrainian, but apparently for you it is.
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  #50  
Old 13 Oct 14, 10:29
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Originally Posted by Karri View Post
I am going by personal experience here, if you can prove me that the army uses this kind of sequential scheme to number the dead then by all means do so. Otherwise I am going to assume it doesn't, since it does so no where else either.

Also, it could read in Ethiopian for all I care and it still does not prove the numbering sequence either way, so your argument is rather flat on those grounds.

You do understand that register is just that, a register number. The number itself can follow any scheme, hell it can even have letters in it. This is not so hard to understand that I need to learn Ukrainian, but apparently for you it is.
not interested in these games....
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  #51  
Old 13 Oct 14, 10:38
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Originally Posted by Khepesh View Post
not interested in these games....
Then stop making arguments you can't see through.
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  #52  
Old 13 Oct 14, 11:11
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Originally Posted by Karri View Post
Then stop making arguments you can't see through.
You asked me a question and I gave you a proper reply. If you don't like my answer, then that is your affair.
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  #53  
Old 13 Oct 14, 11:20
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Originally Posted by Khepesh View Post
You asked me a question and I gave you a proper reply. If you don't like my answer, then that is your affair.
What are you on about? You're the one who started crying about games.

In any case, shouldn't there be about 6000 other such graves somewhere? We only have pictures of two. So I'm gonna leave this discussion here as usual.
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  #54  
Old 13 Oct 14, 11:40
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Originally Posted by Karri View Post
What are you on about? You're the one who started crying about games.

In any case, shouldn't there be about 6000 other such graves somewhere? We only have pictures of two. So I'm gonna leave this discussion here as usual.
So, you cannot read Ukranian, which I do not expect you to, yet make some argument based on not knowing what the words on the grave marker actually mean, which is rather bold, to say the least. Then when given a proper reply, and further information from Ukranian TSN channel, particulary about the convoys of dead turning up to morgues everyday, and an admission from ukies that they have 2000 MIA, this is still insuficient evidence for you that ukies suffered many thousands of deaths, and you now want photos of all the graves, which you know is totaly unrealistic and evidence that nobody can provide. And if 6500+ photos of graves could be produced, what would you need next to satisfy you, a golden calf perhaps. No wonder you want to leave the "discussion"......
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  #55  
Old 13 Oct 14, 12:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khepesh View Post
So, you cannot read Ukranian, which I do not expect you to, yet make some argument based on not knowing what the words on the grave marker actually mean, which is rather bold, to say the least.
I can read English, which is what yous have been posting here in. From that on the discussion is clear enough, furthermore the text does not make any difference as was proven by the translation.

Quote:
Then when given a proper reply, and further information from Ukranian TSN channel, particulary about the convoys of dead turning up to morgues everyday, and an admission from ukies that they have 2000 MIA, this is still insuficient evidence for you that ukies suffered many thousands of deaths, and you now want photos of all the graves, which you know is totaly unrealistic and evidence that nobody can provide.
This is not a discussion of "many thousand deaths" this is about what these graves and the text proves; which is nothing so far. If you watch the video you can see that the numbers do not follow any sequence besides starting with 6.

Really, what is your argument?
That there's a grave with the number 6554 in it, that there's reports of deaths(in a war, how strange), and thus this number MUST MEAN that it is defender number 6554 who is dead here. You don't know what the number means anymore than I do. only difference is that I am not claiming to know what it means.


Quote:
And if 6500+ photos of graves could be produced, what would you need next to satisfy you, a golden calf perhaps. No wonder you want to leave the "discussion"......
I'd just need someone who actually KNOWS what the number means. Not someone who assumes he knows, then think he knows and then denounces everyone who asks a question.

And also, with your theory, should there not be 6500+ graves of unidentified soldiers? Which would mean that there'd have to be a lot more identified bodies(following normal figures in this case). Which again is pointless speculation since we don't know what the numbers means. Other than that it is a registry number.
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  #56  
Old 13 Oct 14, 12:50
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Originally Posted by Karri View Post
I can read English, which is what yous have been posting here in. From that on the discussion is clear enough, furthermore the text does not make any difference as was proven by the translation.



This is not a discussion of "many thousand deaths" this is about what these graves and the text proves; which is nothing so far. If you watch the video you can see that the numbers do not follow any sequence besides starting with 6.

Really, what is your argument?
That there's a grave with the number 6554 in it, that there's reports of deaths(in a war, how strange), and thus this number MUST MEAN that it is defender number 6554 who is dead here. You don't know what the number means anymore than I do. only difference is that I am not claiming to know what it means.




I'd just need someone who actually KNOWS what the number means. Not someone who assumes he knows, then think he knows and then denounces everyone who asks a question.

And also, with your theory, should there not be 6500+ graves of unidentified soldiers? Which would mean that there'd have to be a lot more identified bodies(following normal figures in this case). Which again is pointless speculation since we don't know what the numbers means. Other than that it is a registry number.
Please let your blood pressure drop and then repeat in reasonable English so you can be understood better.
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  #57  
Old 13 Oct 14, 13:19
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Well, I dumbed it down already, but I guess not low enough. I'll try again:
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBER MEANS.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBER MEANS.
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  #58  
Old 13 Oct 14, 15:11
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Originally Posted by Karri View Post
Well, I dumbed it down already, but I guess not low enough. I'll try again:
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBER MEANS.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBER MEANS.
No matter how I disagree with you on many other points, I'm with you on this one. A registry number might mean just about anything: the number of dead in a certain "accounting period", which might be a whole decade, it might be the number of all casualties lumped together, or these numbers might mean something entirely different, like in the number 6554 the digits "65" might indicate a certain region and "54" stands for the number of dead. Unless someone provides exact information on the methodology of official registry of casualties in the Ukrainian Army, we can't say anything definitive about these plaques.
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  #59  
Old 13 Oct 14, 19:26
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You asked me a question and I gave you a proper reply.
You didn't.
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  #60  
Old 13 Oct 14, 21:14
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