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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East > Gaza Conflicts

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Gaza Conflicts Discuss the series of conflicts between Israel and Gaza militants.

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  #31  
Old 03 Aug 14, 16:40
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Originally Posted by michaelozzie View Post
I'm wondering if all those in the US, UK etc criticising Israel over the Palestinian civilian casualties should remember that their own soldiers killed a lot of civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting the terrorists there too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilia...%80%93present)
The two are not comparable. Israel is in military control of Palestine while the USA has handed over military control to the Iraqis in Iraq, as bad as it may be, there is a HUGE difference between how the USA handled itself in Iraq and Afghanistan compared to how Israel is handling itself in Palestine. You have to also remember something Israel is a Jewish state, while the USA is not a Jewish state. In countries like Israel and Saudi Arabia, religious law plays a role in family court, this is simply non existent in the USA legal system.

Also, and probably most important, the US army was able to get many Afghani locals to fight against the Taliban, where as Israel cant get any real support from the Palestinians against Hamas.


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Originally Posted by michaelozzie View Post
Remember he who is without sin should cast the first stone
Putting aside your sarcastic statement, you quoted Jesus Christ and I Agree, this can be said to both sides.
  #32  
Old 03 Aug 14, 16:56
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michaelozzie

In addition, from your link

Civilian and overall casualties (2006)[edit]
A report by Human Rights Watch said that 4,400 Afghans had been killed in 2006, more than 1,000 of them civilians. Some 2,077 militants were killed in Coalition operations between September 1 and December 13.[38]
An Associated Press tally based on reports from Afghan, NATO and coalition officials puts the overall death toll slightly lower, at about 4,000, most of them militants


So we have Human rights watch, and the AP reporting that the USA killed far more militants in comparison to civilians,

And from the other years, its not clear how many Afghan civilians were killed by USA forces, but it appears, that the percentage of civilian deaths in the Afgan war are lower then that of the percentage of civilian deaths in Gaza in this recent Israel Gaza conflict.

But again, either way, the two situations are not comparable. The USA fought alongside local Afganis, and trained them as well. This is simply not the case in Israel.

edit: and to add,

According to the United Nations, the Taliban were responsible for 76% of civilian casualties in Afghanistan in 2009, 75% in 2010 and 80% in 201

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilia...surgent_forces

Last edited by Taieb el-Okbi; 03 Aug 14 at 17:13..
  #33  
Old 03 Aug 14, 17:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
The two are not comparable. Israel is in military control of Palestine while the USA has handed over military control to the Iraqis in Iraq, as bad as it may be, there is a HUGE difference between how the USA handled itself in Iraq and Afghanistan compared to how Israel is handling itself in Palestine. You have to also remember something Israel is a Jewish state, while the USA is not a Jewish state. In countries like Israel and Saudi Arabia, religious law plays a role in family court, this is simply non existent in the USA legal system.

Also, and probably most important, the US army was able to get many Afghani locals to fight against the Taliban, where as Israel cant get any real support from the Palestinians against Hamas.



Putting aside your sarcastic statement, you quoted Jesus Christ and I Agree, this can be said to both sides.
How is Israel in military control of Gaza? It may be blockading Gaza but I don't see why they would need to invade it then if they were in military control?
The huge difference is what? The US and NATO allies did not give prior warning to civilians to evacuate before assaults. Both were fighting armed insurgents in urban areas and civilians were caught in the crossfire. Accidents happen even when trying to avoid civilian casualties, that is part of war. Why then the double standard of calling Israeli soldiers war criminals in the west?

They get support from Egypt and collaborators in Gaza against Hamas.
I have seen lots of Palestinians throwing lots of stones on the news but never the Israelis
  #34  
Old 03 Aug 14, 17:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelozzie View Post
How is Israel in military control of Gaza? It may be blockading Gaza but I don't see why they would need to invade it then if they were in military control?

Exactly, they are blockading Gaza, you said it yourself, that right there is a military incursion on another group. And in addition, we have the illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank. Both the West Bank and Gaza are considered prisons by the Palestinians, thats another thing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelozzie View Post
The huge difference is what?

The numbers and the fact that the USA had support from the Local Afganis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelozzie View Post
The US and NATO allies did not give prior warning to civilians to evacuate before assaults. Both were fighting armed insurgents in urban areas and civilians were caught in the crossfire. Accidents happen even when trying to avoid civilian casualties, that is part of war. Why then the double standard of calling Israeli soldiers war criminals in the west?
Yes, civilians were caught in the crossfire, but it seems the USA and their Afghan Allies(which is huge, the fact the USA had allies in Afghanistan and you ought to address this in going forward) did not kill as many civilians, percentage wise, when compared to the # of civilians killed by Israel, percentage wise, in this recent conflict

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelozzie View Post
They get support from Egypt and collaborators in Gaza against Hamas.
I have seen lots of Palestinians throwing lots of stones on the news but never the Israelis
Some Israel settlers have shot at and thrown rocks at Palestinians.

Michael, there are extremists in Israel just as there are extremists in Palestine. I can show you video proof if you need it?
  #35  
Old 03 Aug 14, 17:42
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Originally Posted by Yono View Post
Oded represents the far right?
Yes, It seems like it, based on Odeds posting, have you read some of the guys posts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yono View Post
Dude if Oded is the "far" right then you represent Americas extreme liberal left. You really have no clue what you are talking about.


Not at all, not even close. Oded has posted bigoted pictures/remarks on Muslims and Arabs, There are no posts of mine which demean Jews, Muslims, Christians, or Arabs here on ACG, so your allegations fall flat.

I voted for Gary Johnson btw, not Obama.
  #36  
Old 03 Aug 14, 17:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani View Post
I'd tell you to quite lying but that would be like asking water to stop being wet.

Here's a +1 for ya, you managed to troll me.
- In one example, you responded to a post with a picture of a Arab/Muslim guy, seemingly you were trying to denote Arabs/Muslims as these evil, inhumane people.

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...6&postcount=41

- Your claims about human shields falls flat, according to multiple humanitarian groups the IDF has commited war crimes. I dont care that your in the IDF and you are compelled to disagree, Im non bias. Im not in the IDF or with any Palestine groups.

Last edited by Taieb el-Okbi; 03 Aug 14 at 18:27..
  #37  
Old 03 Aug 14, 18:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani View Post
They actually have plenty to go to. It's just that Hamas forces them to say put and serve as human shield to influence the feeble minded.

Obviously it's working quite well for them.

The amount of innocent being killed is, relatively, the lowest in any conflict involving a military organization using the population as a human shield (and probably most that weren't such).

The reports of "no Hamas only children" is nothing short of blood libel. It has been proven beyond the shadow of any doubt that Hamas had been using schools, mosques, hospitals, family homes and every type of UN facility in the Gaza strip as some sort of terrorist facility- weapon storage, rocket launching, HQ, etc. Just as they had done since it's onset.
They are the only one to blame.
Ah and of course the old anti-semitism argument.
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  #38  
Old 03 Aug 14, 21:03
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Originally Posted by eddie3rar View Post
Would Hamas have the capacity to build a Syrian style tunnel bomb? The one in the video was supposedly 1km long and was packed with 60tons of fertilizer.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f48_1399313710
I don't think there are any Israeli settlements that close to the border but if the ground is suitable I supposed it could be done.

And since the thread has degenerated into who is and is not a liar.

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Last edited by GCoyote; 03 Aug 14 at 21:08..
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