HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East > Gaza Conflicts

Notices and Announcements

Gaza Conflicts Discuss the series of conflicts between Israel and Gaza militants.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 29 Jul 14, 12:36
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
France
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Summer Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 26,979
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
I am not proposing that the IDF goes in Tunnel Rat Fashion to find out where every possible exit is. Why risk Israeli soldiers if you don't have to? On the other hand, the presence of these underground tunnels under Gaza does not mean they can't be blown up. Actions have consequences and if Hamas has dug these things under Gaza Town, then it should be on Hamas' head if they are blown up. If the local Oil Shieks want to rebuild Gaza under IDF control, then that may be a win/win situation.

Pruitt
__________________
Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 29 Jul 14, 12:52
Michele's Avatar
Michele Michele is offline
General of the Forums
Italy
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Udine
Posts: 6,610
Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100]
Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
I am not proposing that the IDF goes in Tunnel Rat Fashion to find out where every possible exit is. Why risk Israeli soldiers if you don't have to? On the other hand, the presence of these underground tunnels under Gaza does not mean they can't be blown up.
I suppose they can be blown up that way, as a matter of technical fact, though I'm not well informed about FAE devices. The question was whether it would be in compliance with international treaties Israel is a signatory of, and whether it would be wise, even if it was not in compliance only of more recent treaties Israel is not a signatory of.
__________________
Michele
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 29 Jul 14, 23:19
GCoyote's Avatar
GCoyote GCoyote is offline
ACG Forums - canis administrationem
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Gary C
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Posts: 19,077
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
One of the reasons cited for the IDF going in on the ground was the tunnel network. Apparently there are questions as to its sophistication and extent. At the least I would expect them to examine several in detail and possibly send robots down as many as they can to collect intell.
__________________
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

Questions about our site? See the FAQ.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 30 Jul 14, 09:08
Yono's Avatar
Yono Yono is offline
Captain
Israel
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: T.A.
Posts: 883
Yono has demonstrated strength of character [100] Yono has demonstrated strength of character [100] Yono has demonstrated strength of character [100] Yono has demonstrated strength of character [100] Yono has demonstrated strength of character [100] Yono has demonstrated strength of character [100] Yono has demonstrated strength of character [100] Yono has demonstrated strength of character [100] Yono has demonstrated strength of character [100] Yono has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Rockets have been found in an UNRWA school...for the third time.
__________________
I am G.I. Jew
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 30 Jul 14, 09:24
Michele's Avatar
Michele Michele is offline
General of the Forums
Italy
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Udine
Posts: 6,610
Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100]
Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yono View Post
Rockets have been found in an UNRWA school...for the third time.
Well, let's look at the bright side of it. This means the UNRWA personnel is getting wiser to the terrorists' tricks and regularly searching their premises; better late than never. On top of that, even if it's a pity that the ordnance is handed back to Hamas, at least this burdens them with finding a new hiding place, at a time when I suppose most movements in the area undergo a pretty attentive scrutiny by the enemy.
__________________
Michele
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 30 Jul 14, 09:47
Snowygerry's Avatar
Snowygerry Snowygerry is offline
General of the Forums
Belgium
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Gent
Posts: 11,281
Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Just out of interest I checked their offial site:

http://www.unbrussels.org/agencies/unrwa.html

Quote:
UNRWA is by far the largest UN operation in the Middle East, with around 30,000 staff, almost all of them refugees themselves, working directly to benefit their communities – as teachers, doctors, nurses or social workers.
Obviously this led me wonder how they define "refugees" :

Quote:
Palestine Refugees
• Palestine refugees are people whose normal place of residence
was Palestine between June 1946 and May 1948, who lost both
their homes and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 Arab-
Israeli conflict;
• UNRWA’s services are available to all those living in its area of
operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the
Agency and who need assistance;
• Descendants of the original Palestine refugees are also eligible
for registration
.
The last one is particularly bizar, but best kept for another thread perhaps.

http://www.unbrussels.org/images/UNRWA_at_a_Glance.pdf

So do I conclude from that their 30 000 employees are in fact for the most part Palestinians who's loyalties - at least in Gaza - would not be different from anyone else living there ?

Seems a good job opportunity for someone with half a brain - a lot better then suicide squad leader or somesuch - likely offers your friends and relatives some protection as well - perhaps even a way out.

If so - this goes a long way to explain how "UN" operations could end up inifltrated by Hamas and despised by Israel.

Edit: Oh and this gentleman leads the entire affair, perhaps Michele knows of him ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Grandi
__________________
High The Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor - The Napoleonic Wars Campaign.

Captain Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 30 Jul 14, 10:08
Michele's Avatar
Michele Michele is offline
General of the Forums
Italy
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Udine
Posts: 6,610
Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100]
Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
Obviously this led me wonder how they define "refugees" :



The last one is particularly bizar, but best kept for another thread perhaps.
Huh, post #12 in this thread.


Quote:
Edit: Oh and this gentleman leads the entire affair, perhaps Michele knows of him ?
No. Please note that many of the members of Un agencies at these levels are often unknown in their country of origin; they are part of a jet-setting elite of expatriates keeping only a tenuous link with their homeland. This guy in particular - I had to look him up - has worked for UN agencies since the 80s.
__________________
Michele
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 30 Jul 14, 10:12
Snowygerry's Avatar
Snowygerry Snowygerry is offline
General of the Forums
Belgium
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Gent
Posts: 11,281
Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Snowygerry has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michele View Post
(...)
Under the UNRWA's own rules, a baby born in Jordan today, whose father was born in Jordan, and whose grandfather was born in Jordan, and whose grand-grand-father was born in some place that is now Israel since 1949 - wait for it - is a refugee, entitled to the UNRWA's help.
Indeed - it is a self-perpetuating loop.

Sorry read that post, but didn't really register the meaning.
__________________
High The Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor - The Napoleonic Wars Campaign.

Captain Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 30 Jul 14, 10:13
marktwain's Avatar
marktwain marktwain is offline
General of the Forums
Canada
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
 
Real Name: Reg S.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 7,230
marktwain has a spectacular aura about [400]
marktwain has a spectacular aura about [400]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michele View Post
I suppose they can be blown up that way, as a matter of technical fact, though I'm not well informed about FAE devices. The question was whether it would be in compliance with international treaties Israel is a signatory of, and whether it would be wise, even if it was not in compliance only of more recent treaties Israel is not a signatory of.
The odds are good that the tunnels have elementary fire stops in them. I suggested , in"the other thread', digging perimeter water pits to the depth of the tunnels. the pits can store sewerage, the winter flood rains, etc.

got slammed for that idea...
__________________
The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 30 Jul 14, 11:27
Golani's Avatar
Golani Golani is offline
General of the Forums
Israel
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
 
Real Name: Oded
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Israel
Posts: 9,437
Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
Indeed - it is a self-perpetuating loop.

Sorry read that post, but didn't really register the meaning.
Yeah. Makes you kinda think that that's the exact point the U.N designated the Palestinians as the only "people" who'll remain refugees for ever, as any other ethnicity/nationality/religion will only receive refugee status for the first generation...
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #41  
Old 30 Jul 14, 15:07
Golani's Avatar
Golani Golani is offline
General of the Forums
Israel
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
 
Real Name: Oded
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Israel
Posts: 9,437
Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Golani has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
More UNRWA war crimes....
Quote:
3 IDF soldiers killed in booby-trapped UNRWA clinic
Forces were trying to safeguard building before demolishing a tunnel there when device exploded, also injuring 15 other troops


Read more: 3 IDF soldiers killed in booby-trapped UNRWA clinic
http://www.timesofisrael.com/3-idf-s...-unrwa-clinic/
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 30 Jul 14, 16:54
Sergio's Avatar
Sergio Sergio is offline
General of the Forums
UK
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 7,515
Sergio gives and gets respect [800] Sergio gives and gets respect [800]
Sergio gives and gets respect [800] Sergio gives and gets respect [800] Sergio gives and gets respect [800] Sergio gives and gets respect [800]
Another war crime? Does finding rockets in vacant sites and immediately reporting it now count as war crimes? For all of their flaws, and they are many, what war crimes are we talking about?
__________________
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
G.B Shaw

"They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
Grandad, Only Fools and Horses
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 30 Jul 14, 18:50
GCoyote's Avatar
GCoyote GCoyote is offline
ACG Forums - canis administrationem
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Gary C
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Posts: 19,077
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Presumably using a protected site (school, hospital, religious building, etc.) for military purposes.
__________________
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

Questions about our site? See the FAQ.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 30 Jul 14, 20:26
PitchRate's Avatar
PitchRate PitchRate is offline
Colonel
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Bob
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Great Mid-west
Posts: 1,516
PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200] PitchRate is walking in the light [200]
Interesting video of one of the tunnels.

One of the comments posted said: "Imagine how great of a place Gaza could be if Hamas used all the aid money, concrete and human labor for the betterment of their own people instead of perpetuating their insane Jihad against Israel."

Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 30 Jul 14, 22:06
marktwain's Avatar
marktwain marktwain is offline
General of the Forums
Canada
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
 
Real Name: Reg S.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 7,230
marktwain has a spectacular aura about [400]
marktwain has a spectacular aura about [400]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchRate View Post
Interesting video of one of the tunnels.

One of the comments posted said: "Imagine how great of a place Gaza could be if Hamas used all the aid money, concrete and human labor for the betterment of their own people instead of perpetuating their insane Jihad against Israel."

The tunnels were designed so Israel would dig deep pits to find and collapse them. then in winter the pits can be filled with flood and treated effluent water, so the Aquifer recharges.

I was ,yes, born last night...
__________________
The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:14.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.