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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East > Gaza Conflicts

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Gaza Conflicts Discuss the series of conflicts between Israel and Gaza militants.

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  #61  
Old 10 Jul 14, 14:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn239 View Post
It's pretty clear that neither Gaza nor Israel can fix this problem. The US has to step up and the international community has to occupy Gaza and rout out all the rockets. Israel doesn't have the resources to fix the problem itself, and Gaza cannot be expected to shake the control of the terrorist organization running it.
The U.S. does NOT have to "step up," whatever that means.

Let Canada "step up"! Israel is not the 51st state that we are in charge of taking care of!!!!!

Israel could fix the problem in a few days, but doesn't have the will to do it. So they'll go on as they are from crisis to crisis until something changes.

Glenn, you know very well that the "international community," whatever you mean by that, is hardly going to occupy Gaza. Not in this millennium! If it did, it would probably ensure that Hamas got MORE rockets! UN "peacekeepers" would be a bad solution for Israel and would result in Israel's quick dissolution and takeover by the Palestinians.
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  #62  
Old 10 Jul 14, 14:57
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This all seems very familiar, complete with the same old rhetoric. Hamas fire rockets into Israel. Israel then hits back hard (and fully justified too) and ends up killing more civillians than Hamas. It stops, Israel pull out, then a few months later it all starts up again. You can almost set your watch by it and that's really depressing.

Good article by Hilik Bar in the Telegraph and shows somone is thinking long term though

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ith-Hamas.html
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  #63  
Old 10 Jul 14, 15:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phebe View Post
The U.S. does NOT have to "step up," whatever that means.

Let Canada "step up"! Israel is not the 51st state that we are in charge of taking care of!!!!!

Israel could fix the problem in a few days, but doesn't have the will to do it. So they'll go on as they are from crisis to crisis until something changes.

Glenn, you know very well that the "international community," whatever you mean by that, is hardly going to occupy Gaza. Not in this millennium! If it did, it would probably ensure that Hamas got MORE rockets! UN "peacekeepers" would be a bad solution for Israel and would result in Israel's quick dissolution and takeover by the Palestinians.
The obvious alternative is Israel anexs the Gaza strip and makes it part of Israel, though that would also include the people of Gaza becoming or gaining the rights of Israeli citizenship. Essentially doing what Rome did with its enemies. Though that would mean ending Israel as simply a Jewish state, though with the Arab-Israeli population growing, that was going to happen sooner or later anyway.
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  #64  
Old 10 Jul 14, 15:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn239 View Post
There would be only one way to find out for sure - give Hamas the scapel and see whether they make precision cuts or not.

That doesn't strike me as a better bargain for Israel though, right?
That strikes me as a very uninformed assessment of the issue.

HAMAS could choose not to fire at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha
How about we mind our own business? Israel could take care of the gaza problem if we just let them. How about we just offer to veto any UN resolution that comes up to stop them from prosecuting a well deserved spanking on gaza? I say that hamas is a terrorist organization that was elected to power. Show the bastards the error of their ways...
Exactly. Give the Israelis what ever they need in terms of aid, and give 'em thirty days to sort the matter out.
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  #65  
Old 10 Jul 14, 15:07
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Originally Posted by History fan View Post
The obvious alternative is Israel anexs the Gaza strip and makes it part of Israel, though that would also include the people of Gaza becoming or gaining the rights of Israeli citizenship. Essentially doing what Rome did with its enemies. Though that would mean ending Israel as simply a Jewish state, though with the Arab-Israeli population growing, that was going to happen sooner or later anyway.

Or they occupy it, eject the current population, and annex it. Simpler solution.
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  #66  
Old 10 Jul 14, 15:19
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Or they occupy Gaza, eject the current population, and annex it. My solution, too.

Next stop: West Bank.
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  #67  
Old 10 Jul 14, 15:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by History fan View Post
The obvious alternative is Israel anexs the Gaza strip and makes it part of Israel, though that would also include the people of Gaza becoming or gaining the rights of Israeli citizenship. Essentially doing what Rome did with its enemies. Though that would mean ending Israel as simply a Jewish state, though with the Arab-Israeli population growing, that was going to happen sooner or later anyway.
This is a remarkably bad idea from the point of view of Israel continuing in any realistic form.

Rome did indeed incorporate their enemies! Well, until finally overrun and entirely dissolved by those same enemies, of course. It worked for a few centuries because Rome was the largest empire that ever occurred, possibly excepting the British Empire lately, and so they had the advantage of overwhelming might and population size.

Israel is NOT as large as the Roman Empire and would instantly be overwhelmed by incorporating their Muslim enemies.

The usual solution all over the world by Muslims who take over countries by their usual violence is to kill, convert, or expel all the Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, animists, whatever religions the people hold who live there. I can't see why they are especially likely to live in peace and harmony with the Israelis!

Israel has to drive off these perpetually attacking enemies at their border. Incorporate that land and settle it and regularize their very strange and nonviable approach to borders. Either they will do this, or Israel will fail.

Depending on us to do it for them -------- losing idea.
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  #68  
Old 10 Jul 14, 15:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
Or they occupy it, eject the current population, and annex it. Simpler solution.
So your proposing ethnic cleansing instead nice
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  #69  
Old 10 Jul 14, 15:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phebe View Post
This is a remarkably bad idea from the point of view of Israel continuing in any realistic form.

Rome did indeed incorporate their enemies! Well, until finally overrun and entirely dissolved by those same enemies, of course. It worked for a few centuries because Rome was the largest empire that ever occurred, possibly excepting the British Empire lately, and so they had the advantage of overwhelming might and population size.

Israel is NOT as large as the Roman Empire and would instantly be overwhelmed by incorporating their Muslim enemies.

The usual solution all over the world by Muslims who take over countries by their usual violence is to kill, convert, or expel all the Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, animists, whatever religions the people hold who live there. I can't see why they are especially likely to live in peace and harmony with the Israelis!

Israel has to drive off these perpetually attacking enemies at their border. Incorporate that land and settle it and regularize their very strange and nonviable approach to borders. Either they will do this, or Israel will fail.

Depending on us to do it for them -------- losing idea.
Actually not quite what happened, nor that they were even enemies either in the sense you mean. I reccomend you read Adrian Goldsworthys book on the end of the Roman Empire.

Ill ignore the ethnic cleansing demands, though the irony that you are calling on Israel to do the exact same thing seems to be lost on you.
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  #70  
Old 10 Jul 14, 15:36
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Oh, lets stop giving them foreign aid as well. We could set up a lottery for honorably discharged Vets that would disburse the 490 million dollars to people that deserve it, say each year 490 vets get 1 million each tax free.
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  #71  
Old 10 Jul 14, 15:40
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So your proposing ethnic cleansing instead nice
You might want to look up the definitions of 'eject' and 'ethnic cleaning'. You clearly don't understand the difference.
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  #72  
Old 10 Jul 14, 15:42
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Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
Oh, lets stop giving them foreign aid as well. We could set up a lottery for honorably discharged Vets that would disburse the 490 million dollars to people that deserve it, say each year 490 vets get 1 million each tax free.
Israel's R&D contributions more than pay us back for our aid.

And its one of the very few times the USA has backed a faction which can win on its own.

Usually, we get stuck with the only buggers in the game who are unwilling to stand up and fight.
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  #73  
Old 10 Jul 14, 15:54
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Originally Posted by History fan View Post
Ill ignore the ethnic cleansing demands, though the irony that you are calling on Israel to do the exact same thing seems to be lost on you.
Don't ignore the ejecting or ethnic cleansing idea (a distinction without a difference?). It is the normal solution through the millennia, after all, and if it isn't done, a culture cannot possibly remain intact.

As we see occurring all around us with the overwhelming pressure of out-migration from totally failed societies into successful societies ---- until, that is, they are overwhelmed and become just as corruption and crime-ridden and primitive as the people invading them.

Violence such as we see against Israel is a real, real, real good reason for ejecting the enemies. That's what America did with the Indians, who were much given to tomahawking settlers, burning their cabins, raping and enslaving the women and children, and tieing the Dads to anthills. I know there is lots of PC crap talked about this today, but at the time, it seemed best to just march them off to reservations far away, and I entirely agree. Any American who wants to whine about it, I suggest you get out the title to your house and land and go find an Indian to give it to. It will be easy to find one: there are plenty around.
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  #74  
Old 10 Jul 14, 16:11
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Yoav Galant (a former head of IDF SOUTHCOM, his candidacy for chief of staff was shot down due to corruption) was just interviewed on T.V about the possibility of a ground operation.
His answer was "it's better to win 2-0 then 10-1".
With this kind of mentality you can't even win 1-0....

Galant kinda looks like Mattis-



I wish he had some other traits "Chaos" has...
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  #75  
Old 10 Jul 14, 16:25
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Israel's R&D contributions more than pay us back for our aid.

And its one of the very few times the USA has backed a faction which can win on its own.
Just curious about this statement.

Last time I looked Israel had received over one trillion US dollars in cumulative aid from America (real dollars not inflated or deflated) and was currently receiving an annual 3 billion dollars in US military.

Surely sufficient aid to bring about any military solution it cared to impose on any of its neighbours.
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