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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East > Gaza Conflicts

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Gaza Conflicts Discuss the series of conflicts between Israel and Gaza militants.

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  #31  
Old 09 Jul 14, 12:36
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You know, we have long-serving, quality posters here who make be called up for active military service, and all some here can think to do is to try to harass them. No class.
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Last edited by Arnold J Rimmer; 09 Jul 14 at 13:15..
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  #32  
Old 09 Jul 14, 12:51
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Dimona and Yeruham under attack, estimations are that Hamas is trying to target the nuclear reactor outside of Dimona.
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  #33  
Old 09 Jul 14, 13:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
but as we know, the rockets from Hamas, put civilians at risk, just as some of the actions of the IDF put civilians at risk.
No, dude. This is a false equivalence. Now, I am sure you are not peddling it on purpose; you are not trying to propalate this lie, it's just a complete lack of understanding on your part. Let me help you.

The IDF operations do put civilians at risk, even though they appear to always take as many precautions as they can to reduce the risk;

on the contrary, Hamas operations deliberately target civilians.

The intention of the IDF is to hit military targets;

the intention of Hamas is to kill civilians.

I'm sure you will be able to understand the two are not comparable if you take a pause and think very slowly and carefully about it.

In order to help you, the IDF is like a bus driver doing his job; from time to time an accident may happen, even if he does his very best to prevent that.

Hamas is a madman who jumps on a bus and drives full speed into a pedestrian plaza trying to hit as many pedestrians as he can.

Got that now?
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  #34  
Old 09 Jul 14, 13:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani View Post
Dimona and Yeruham under attack, estimations are that Hamas is trying to target the nuclear reactor outside of Dimona.
That would be yet another war crime under recently formed customary international law and under Additional Protocol I 1977.
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  #35  
Old 09 Jul 14, 13:22
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Those rockets fired from Gaza are not very effective, are they?

Yesterday, the BBC reported that missiles had hit Haifa. That had to be a mistake on the Beeb's part, right? Haifa is an awful long way from Gaza. What range do they have?


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  #36  
Old 09 Jul 14, 13:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipLaos View Post
Those rockets fired from Gaza are not very effective, are they?
Effective as much as rockets are. Most are intercepted by Iron Dome, those that aren't are intended to hit open areas and are therefore left alone.
Quote:
Yesterday, the BBC reported that missiles had hit Haifa. That had to be a mistake on the Beeb's part, right? Haifa is an awful long way from Gaza. What range do they have?


Philip
That is a mistake.
As I noted in this thread (I bring only the "exotic" cases) the furthest registered hit so far was outside Zikhron-Ya'akov some 125km away from the strip.
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  #37  
Old 10 Jul 14, 04:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani View Post
Effective as much as rockets are. Most are intercepted by Iron Dome, those that aren't are intended to hit open areas and are therefore left alone.
Sorry, I suppose you mean that the rockets that aren't intercepted are expected - by the Israeli defence - to fall into open areas. I don't think any rockets are intended - by the firers - to hit an empty field or the desert. I am under the impression that since the integrated defence system is able to calculate the trajectories for interception purposes, they also can predict it when a rocket isn't likely to hit anything significant, and that they save those costly Iron Dome missiles, in those cases.
Is that correct?
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  #38  
Old 10 Jul 14, 04:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michele View Post
Sorry, I suppose you mean that the rockets that aren't intercepted are expected - by the Israeli defence - to fall into open areas. I don't think any rockets are intended - by the firers - to hit an empty field or the desert.
Indeed- that's what I meant
Quote:
I am under the impression that since the integrated defence system is able to calculate the trajectories for interception purposes, they also can predict it when a rocket isn't likely to hit anything significant, and that they save those costly Iron Dome missiles, in those cases.
Is that correct?
Yes, that's how the system is meant to operate and that's how it usually works, with a natural glitch here and there.
The overall success rate so far is said to be 90%.
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  #39  
Old 10 Jul 14, 05:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golani View Post
(...)
The overall success rate so far is said to be 90%.
Quite amazing really, and a first afaik,

do you estimate the enemy is testing it ?

Like swamping it with "low quality" missiles and mixing in a few "quality" ones ?

Or simply observing its operation on the ground ?
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  #40  
Old 10 Jul 14, 05:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
the rockets from Hamas, put civilians at risk, just as some of the actions of the IDF put civilians at risk.

This comparison alone is all one needs to understand you.
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  #41  
Old 10 Jul 14, 05:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipLaos View Post
Those rockets fired from Gaza are not very effective, are they?

Yesterday, the BBC reported that missiles had hit Haifa. That had to be a mistake on the Beeb's part, right? Haifa is an awful long way from Gaza. What range do they have?


Philip
From what I've been reading, it seems the Palestinians are employing some of their longer ranged toys.
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  #42  
Old 10 Jul 14, 05:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
do you estimate the enemy is testing it ?
There had been talk about them trying to launch barrage so that at least 1 will go through. All interceptions above Gush Dan were of 3-5 rockets so that sounds right.

Thad said- they still gain something even when the rockets are intercepted. A single interceptor costs a few thousand dollars and people still panic and their daily routine is disrupted, kids develop anxiety, etc. Shrapnel still hits the ground (a large chunk landed on a gas station this morning) and car accidents are caused (of course that's a lot less bad then if the actual rocket hits).

The purpose of Iron Dome should be to allow military forces (most importantly ground forces) to operate with as much freedom and "breathing space" without worrying about the families back home and strategic installations.
It is not meant to be used as a huge shield that forces us to remain passive thinking we are protected from everything.

Passivity is the key to losing.
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  #43  
Old 10 Jul 14, 05:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michele View Post
No, dude. This is a false equivalence. Now, I am sure you are not peddling it on purpose; you are not trying to propalate this lie, it's just a complete lack of understanding on your part. Let me help you.

The IDF operations do put civilians at risk, even though they appear to always take as many precautions as they can to reduce the risk;

on the contrary, Hamas operations deliberately target civilians.

The intention of the IDF is to hit military targets;

the intention of Hamas is to kill civilians.

I'm sure you will be able to understand the two are not comparable if you take a pause and think very slowly and carefully about it.

In order to help you, the IDF is like a bus driver doing his job; from time to time an accident may happen, even if he does his very best to prevent that.

Hamas is a madman who jumps on a bus and drives full speed into a pedestrian plaza trying to hit as many pedestrians as he can.

Got that now?
Well said, but it may not be simple enough for those that attempt to attach moral equivalence to both sides in this mess.

So maybe this will help.

There's good guys and bad guys. Yes, Sergio there's no absolutes. The good guys sometimes act badly, and the bad guys infrequently do something good. THIS DOES NOT MAKE THEM MORALLY EQUAL!!!!!

Those of you who elevate the terrorists by equating their actions to those defending against them are supporting the terrorists. That's it. If that bothers you, rethink your position.
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  #44  
Old 10 Jul 14, 06:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
Well said, but it may not be simple enough for those that attempt to attach moral equivalence to both sides in this mess.

So maybe this will help.

There's good guys and bad guys. Yes, Sergio there's no absolutes. The good guys sometimes act badly, and the bad guys infrequently do something good. THIS DOES NOT MAKE THEM MORALLY EQUAL!!!!!

Those of you who elevate the terrorists by equating their actions to those defending against them are supporting the terrorists. That's it. If that bothers you, rethink your position.
Interesting that you feel the need to bring me into a thread I was not even a part of. Am not going to get into a back and forth with you or respond further. However, I would appreciate it if you responded to the posts or comments that I actually make, rather than this kind of thing.
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  #45  
Old 10 Jul 14, 08:58
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The Guardian has a good analysis on what Hamas is up to and why it's doing this

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...rael-ceasefire
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