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American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion Military history of North America. .

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  #1  
Old 13 Jun 14, 07:39
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A "Politically Correct" Conquest of North America

We have been hearing for years, how the evil white people came to America, stole the Indians land, and killed the Indians. While it most certainly was much more complex than this, I do feel sympathy for the Indians. They did get treated badly. I have often wondered how it could have been different. Could the US have given the Indians a better deal? How? Secondly, what do all the PC people think should have happened? I've never heard them say. Leaving all that under utilized land and resources for the Indians seems crazy, but what is their ideas on what should have happened? What would a PC conquest of North America look like?
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  #2  
Old 13 Jun 14, 08:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny87kz View Post
We have been hearing for years, how the evil white people came to America, stole the Indians land, and killed the Indians. While it most certainly was much more complex than this, I do feel sympathy for the Indians. They did get treated badly. I have often wondered how it could have been different. Could the US have given the Indians a better deal? How? Secondly, what do all the PC people think should have happened? I've never heard them say. Leaving all that under utilized land and resources for the Indians seems crazy, but what is their ideas on what should have happened? What would a PC conquest of North America look like?
Not gone there I would imagine. Its poppycock of course when you view history through the lens of today.
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Old 13 Jun 14, 08:04
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Not gone there I would imagine. Its poppycock of course when you view history through the lens of today.
Agreed, it's silly to apply the standards of today on the past. Things went the way they did for a lot of pressing reasons.

How would it be instead? well, taking, with a sizable pinch of salt, the idea of a more 'PC' America. The US probably wouldn't be around today. A few coastal city states MIGHT, if the Indian land was strictly taboo.
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Old 13 Jun 14, 08:10
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I just had to do a paper on Indian mascots and names in sports. All the stuff I had to read through about the evil whites made me wonder what these people think should have happened.
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Old 13 Jun 14, 08:18
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DId you do the Blackhawks? I'm a Blackhawks fan

It's an interesting question to ask - I wonder what kind of state(s) the Indians would have formed if left to their own devices. Presuming we cut off the original flow from about the discovery of the Americas. If later, say, when the US expanded West, and prevent that happening, then it would have just remained the 13 colonies- area, albeit independent.
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Old 13 Jun 14, 08:41
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It was just a short paper. So I did a general approach on how using Indian names and mascots can promote stereotypes. Oh sorry Native American...
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Old 13 Jun 14, 08:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny87kz View Post
It was just a short paper. So I did a general approach on how using Indian names and mascots can promote stereotypes. Oh sorry Native American...
Both 'Indian' and 'American Indian' are more than acceptable...

Sincerely,
M
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Old 13 Jun 14, 08:55
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The most I can see happening would be the US leaving larger portions of land to the Indians. With a large semi autonomous region in the plains.
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Old 13 Jun 14, 09:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny87kz View Post
We have been hearing for years, how the evil white people came to America, stole the Indians land, and killed the Indians.

While it most certainly was much more complex than this, I do feel sympathy for the Indians. They did get treated badly. I have often wondered how it could have been different. Could the US have given the Indians a better deal?
That's the rumor.

Lets try proportion. Say someone, and bringing their buddies along with them, lets add armed as well, pay you a visit at your home and say bivouac on your front lawn. What would you consider their status to be at that point? Guests, visitors, passersby, squatters, Pikeys just passing through on their way to wherever, anything else. Say they were even friendly and genteel, initially.

What kind of deal could they have made to you to stay in ever increasing numbers if you weren't in the mood to move, share your space, and otherwise bear the burdens of encroachment and not the slightest bit amenable to deals, enticements, offers to settle amicably, or anything else meant to endear your cooperation, hospitality and indulgence.
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Old 13 Jun 14, 09:59
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Originally Posted by Massena View Post
Both 'Indian' and 'American Indian' are more than acceptable...

Sincerely,
M
I personally agree with you. It's just that to be PC you have to use Native American.
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Old 13 Jun 14, 10:01
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Originally Posted by HMS Jr. View Post
That's the rumor.

Lets try proportion. Say someone, and bringing their buddies along with them, lets add armed as well, pay you a visit at your home and say bivouac on your front lawn. What would you consider their status to be at that point? Guests, visitors, passersby, squatters, Pikeys just passing through on their way to wherever, anything else. Say they were even friendly and genteel, initially.

What kind of deal could they have made to you to stay in ever increasing numbers if you weren't in the mood to move, share your space, and otherwise bear the burdens of encroachment and not the slightest bit amenable to deals, enticements, offers to settle amicably, or anything else meant to endear your cooperation, hospitality and indulgence.
I can see what you are getting at, but after the Europeans "discovered" America things weren't going to stay the same.
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Old 13 Jun 14, 10:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny87kz View Post
I just had to do a paper on Indian mascots and names in sports. All the stuff I had to read through about the evil whites made me wonder what these people think should have happened.
"Evil" is debatable. Otherwise nice people are capable of doing evil things, and evil people are capable of doing nice things. One can quite comfortably and easily reside in a nation-state, lets say ancient Rome for a minute, and enjoy the generosity, perks, and largess provided by the emperor and his legions. Thing is, it's at the expense of others far, far away. Things stayed like that globally and for a long, long time and it's not too much different today, just gone about differently within a relatively civilized global manner. It's still about keeping the folks back home happy to one degree or another and for the obvious reasons.

Indian mascots huh? Fundamentally, I saw no harm. Still don't, well, to a point. But, then too, I'm not a Native American, Indian, member of any tribe of either, and nor is the squaw I share my teepee with either and our papooses by extension because of her ancestral exclusion.

I don't attend sporting events based on team names as such. To me it's just a name recognition of who's playing. They could all be referenced by location and sport only for all I care:

The Houston Baseball Team.
The Houston Basketball Team.
The Dallas...
The Los Angeles...
The NY whatevers.

I just have a decided tendency to look at another guy's beef, toss-in a measure of empathy, ask myself if I'd dig it, and ponder accordingly if I walked in his moccasins, boots, sandals, barefoot, Air Jordans, flip flops, or Allen-Edmonds.
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Old 13 Jun 14, 10:35
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I can see what you are getting at, but after the Europeans "discovered" America things weren't going to stay the same.
Quite true and no debate whatsoever. Things didn't decidedly, and it's been too late for a long time to stuff the **** back into the donkey. Granted. However, the occasional, and only if token, remedy and/or redress isn't such a bad thing and gesture either if we care to address both sides of the convenience/inconvenience/inconvenienced equation.
It's only a name, not a nation we're talking about. Cheap at a comparative price.
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Old 13 Jun 14, 11:51
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I personally agree with you. It's just that to be PC you have to use Native American.
So who wants to be PC? I most certainly don't. I'd rather be historically correct at least most of the time.

So, Indians it is.

Sincerely,
M
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Old 13 Jun 14, 11:54
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It's just that to be PC you have to use Native American.
Or specific tribal name as the occasion suits. One guy's PC might be another guy's matter of preference of ID reference.
Manners and respecting what another person or people like to be addressed as predates conceptions and notions of PC a very, very long time.
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