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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus

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Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus Post-Soviet Russia and some neglected smaller neighbors.

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  #1  
Old 20 Dec 12, 14:28
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Thumbs down Sucker punch by Duma

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20795523

Quote:
Russian President Vladimir Putin has defended a ban on Americans adopting Russian children, which has been proposed by the Russian parliament.

Quote:
The rate of adoption in Russia is low. Some 3,400 Russian children were adopted by foreign families in 2011, nearly a third of them by Americans. The number of children adopted by Russian citizens was 7,416.

Americans have adopted around 60,000 Russian children over the past 20 years, with 19 recorded deaths among them. Over the same period, 1,500 orphans died in Russian adoptive families, according to the Russian prosecutor-general's office.
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  #2  
Old 20 Dec 12, 14:49
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And of those 19 deaths how many were due to conditions obtained in the horrid conditions of Russian orphanages? It is ridiculous, especially singling out America. How about starting with reforming the archaic orphanage system and taking some of that Gazprom money and spending it on that? The SKA Ultras that I am a part of 'sponsor' an orphanage, every month we go and play football with the children and bring diapers, formula, clothes, and toys. Looking at the condition of the facilities, how the children are treated, and their Oliver Twist style food makes me sick. But yeah, they are better off there than letting an American family who doesn't care if the child is 3 months or 10 years take them into their home and love them unconditionally..

Wake up Russia, quit kidding yourself your system sucks, Joe Kony takes better care of children than you.
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  #3  
Old 20 Dec 12, 15:31
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Americans have adopted around 60,000 Russian children over the past 20 years, with 19 recorded deaths among them
Unless an average American could live 2000 years such a low death rate is simply impossible.
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Old 20 Dec 12, 15:37
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Unless an average American could live 2000 years such a low death rate is simply impossible.
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Old 20 Dec 12, 15:43
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Quote:
QUESTION: Ksenia Sokolova, Snob magazine.

In response to US Congress passing the Magnitsky Act, the State Duma adopted restrictive measures against US nationals who want to adopt Russian orphans. Do you think this is an adequate response? Does it not bother you that the most destitute and helpless children become a tool in a political conflict?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: First of all, you have just said that this is a response to the so-called Magnitsky Act. Let me tell you briefly what I think about it. I have already spoken about it, but let me just outline my attitude to this case.

This is undoubtedly an unfriendly act towards the Russian Federation. What is at issue here is not just officials who are not allowed to open bank accounts or own real estate. I mentioned this in my Address to the Federal Assembly recently. We also believe that Russian state officials, especially high-ranking politicians should keep their money in Russian banks. Incidentally, there are many banks in Russia with one hundred percent foreign capital, and there can be no doubt as to their efficiency and reliability. If such a bank has an office in Russia or in Vienna, or in some other capital makes no difference; what is important is that it is an international financial institution. Hold it here, please.

As for real estate, I have also spoken about this. If our colleagues abroad can help us identify those who violate laws, we will be grateful to them and can even give them a prize for their efforts. However, the issue here has nothing to do with officials. It’s a matter of one anti-Soviet, anti-Russian law being replaced with another. They can’t seem to do without it. They keep trying to stay in the past. This is very bad, and has a negative impact on our relations.

As for the issue you have mentioned, the adoption of Russian children by foreigners, as far as I know, public opinion polls show that the overwhelming majority of Russians do not support the adoption of Russian children by foreign nationals. We must do it ourselves. We must support the adoption of abandoned children or orphans.

In this regard, I fully support Mr Medvedev’s proposal. We should promote this work in our country, remove bureaucratic barriers and give even more support to the families that adopt children.

Now for the American side. It’s not about specific people, US citizens who have adopted our children. We know that tragedies happen but the vast majority of people who adopt Russian children take good care of them and are good, decent people. The State Duma’s response was not to that but to the US authorities’ position. What is their position? It is a fact that when a crime is committed against an adopted Russian child, the American justice system often does not react at all and releases the people who have clearly committed a criminal offense against a child, of any criminal responsibility. But that's not all. Russian representatives are denied any access, even as observers, in these legal processes.

We recently signed an agreement between the US State Department and the Russian Foreign Ministry on the actions Russian representatives can take in such crises or conflicts. What happens in practice? In practice, it turns out that according to US legislation, states have jurisdiction over such cases. And when our representatives try to fulfil their obligations under the agreement, they say, ‘This is not a federal case, it’s a state case, and you do not have any agreements with the individual states. Go to the State Department and sort it out with them because you signed an agreement with them’. But the federal government refers them to the states. So what is the point of this agreement? Russian representatives are not even granted access as observers, much less as participants in the case.

What concerns do our partners in the United States and their lawmakers voice? They talk about human rights in Russian prisons and places of detention. That is all well and good, but they also have plenty of problems in that area.

I have already talked about this: Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, where people are kept jailed for years without being charged. It is incomprehensible. Not only are those prisoners detained without charge, they walk around shackled, like in the Middle Ages. They legalised torture in their own country.

Can you imagine if we had anything like this here? They would have eaten us alive a long time ago. It would have been a worldwide scandal. But in their country everything is quiet. They have promised many times that they would close down Guantanamo, but it’s still there. The prison is open to this day. We don’t know, maybe they are still using torture there. These so-called secret CIA prisons. Who has been punished for that? And they still point out our problems. Well, thank you, we are aware of them. But it is outrageous to use this as a pretext to adopt anti-Russian laws, when our side has done nothing to warrant such a response.

I understand that the State Duma’s response is emotional but I think it is adequate.

QUESTION: Mr President, I am Alexander Kolesnichenko from Argumenty i Fakty.

I am an adoptive parent myself, and regardless of the foreign policy context I considered the amendment passed by the State Duma yesterday to be outrageous, inadequate and, sorry, cannibalistic. The people who have passed this law say that we have enough money to take care of our orphans and enough families willing to adopt tens of thousands of abandoned children. This is not true, or not completely true. Moreover, I think they are deceiving us, just as the regional authorities deceive us when they report on the growth of average wages in the public sector.

We have a national newspaper, and we get a lot of letters from the regions saying that teachers get a real shock when they compare their salaries to the so-called average wages. Sorry, this is probably another question. I hope that some of my colleagues will devote more attention to it. In yesterday’s news ...

VLADIMIR PUTIN: I will answer that question too.

Go on.

QUESTION: I think there were only two good news items yesterday.

First, more people got a better idea of what the State Duma stands for.

And second, Prime Minister Medvedev said that there is a real need for new steps, new programmes.

Could you tell us in a little more detail what steps and programmes these will be? My personal three-year experience shows that our system treats adoptive parents as a threat on the one hand and a burden on the other. It was a great shock for me when we got to the final step in the process, came to court and had to face legal violations and humiliation out of nowhere.

Sorry, this is probably the third question. I am sure some of my colleagues will also ask about the judicial system.

Thank you.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: I have already voiced my position regarding yesterday’s decision. I disagree with you totally.

First of all, I repeat, this is not about specific people but about the attitude of the American authorities to the problems that arise in extraordinary situations when children's rights are violated and criminal offenses are committed. They are well known, as is the reaction of the US authorities.

I will say again that they do not allow Russian representatives access to these cases, even as court observers. I believe that is unacceptable. Do you think this is normal? How can it be normal when you are humiliated? Do you like it? Are you a masochist? They shouldn’t humiliate our country. It is true that we must work to enhance our system. Moreover, we have not banned adoptions by all foreigners. There are other countries besides the United States.

As you may know, many US states do not allow observers from international organizations to be present during elections. Do you like that? The OSCE Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights was told outright that they must keep a 300-metre distance or they will be arrested. And all is quiet, everyone likes it. This ODIHR wrote that the election was fine and democratic. Do you like it? I don’t think so.

Why then do you call the law cannibalistic? The fact that you have adopted a child is highly commendable. I hope that many others will follow your example. You are a sincere and decent man if you did what you did, it is true, I know what I’m saying.

As for our judicial system, which perhaps is unnecessarily meticulous in such cases. You know, this largely depends on the personality of the judge who decides the case. People are different, including in the judicial system.

I remember when my good friend and colleague Gerhard Schroeder adopted two Russian children, they came to the court in St Petersburg and the judge asked, ‘How does your eldest daughter feel about the adoption?’ She said, ‘What does that have to do with me? Nobody has asked me’. And the judge said: ‘I'm asking you. If you are against it, I will not allow it’.

You know, this makes sense because each member of the family has to make this decision for themselves. And that is what the whole judicial system is aimed at. It would have been a tough decision but a fair one. After all, there is another problem: people reject the children they adopt and the number of such cases is growing. Therefore, it would not be right to simplify procedures here. Society must have a clear understanding whether a given family is capable of bringing up a child, whether they have the means to support him and whether the state aid that the family receives will be sufficient to raise the child. All these things are extremely important, and if a family is just looking to get some benefits, then perhaps they should be rejected.

It is important to understand all these things. If you want to ask me what exactly is to be done, I will have to think about it. This should be considered by specialists, experts and people like you. I say this completely sincerely. These are not just words. These are not empty words. We must talk with the people who bring up adopted children. There are many aspects to that. But as I said, I completely agree with Mr Medvedev and we had even discussed this issue previously, that we must expand the opportunities for Russian families to adopt children, to become adoptive and foster parents, and so on. We must establish a whole range of support measures, both financial and moral.
Official presidential website.


Quote:
Rusia quiere prohibir que padres de Estados Unidos adopten niños rusos


Los huérfanos rusos tendrán más difícil encontrar unos buenos padres. La Duma ha aprobado la primera fase de un proyecto de ley que penaliza a los estadounidenses responsables de abusos contra los Derechos Humanos e incluye la prohibición de adopciones de niños rusos por parte de ciudadanos de EEUU. Desde medios gubernamentales no se oculta que se trata de una venganza por el último desaire de Washington: la aprobación de la llamada 'lista Magnitski'.

Con ella EEUU quiere cerrar sus fronteras a los implicados en la muerte de Sergei Magnitstki. Este abogado ruso, fallecido en prisión en 2009 en extrañas circunstancias, acabó en la cárcel acusado de corrupción fiscal cuando en realidad él mismo había sido el primero en denunciarla a escala gubernamental. Los funcionarios ligados al caso, aunque resultaron inocentes en Rusia, no podrán pisar EEUU y, si tienen cuentas allí, se congelarán. Los rusos protestaron denunciando la medida como una "intromisión".

Moscú ya había adelantado que su respuesta sería "asimétrica". Ahora Rusia planea prohibir a los ciudadanos de EEUU las adopciones de niños rusos. "La misma gente que inaugura cárceles secretas y legaliza la tortura en la investigación viene a indicarnos nuestros defectos", criticó anteriormente el presidente ruso, Vladimir Putin.
Elmundo

Quote:
Ban on US Adoptions Advances in Duma

MOSCOW, December 19 (RIA Novosti) – A controversial amendment that would ban US citizens from adopting Russian children passed in a second reading in the State Duma on Wednesday.

The draft law retaliates for enactment of the Magnitsky Act in the US, which imposes visa bans and asset freezes on Russian officials deemed guilty of human rights abuses.

The amendment approved on Wednesday would also bar Russian organizations from facilitating adoptions by US citizens.

The original bill, without the ban, passed a first reading last week.

It will come up for a third and final reading on Friday and could come into effect in January once approved by the Federation Council and signed by the president.

The draft law was dubbed the Dima Yakovlev bill, after a 21-month-old who died of heatstroke in July 2008 after his adoptive father, Miles Harrison, left him unattended in a car for nine hours.
RIA
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Old 20 Dec 12, 16:04
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Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
first off, this has nothing to do with the so-called Magnitsky Act, and the BBC tells lies.
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Old 20 Dec 12, 16:06
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the BBC tells lies.
Amen!
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Old 20 Dec 12, 16:07
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first off, this has nothing to do with the so-called Magnitsky Act, and the BBC tells lies.
Tell us the truth.
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Old 20 Dec 12, 16:08
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Quote:
Retaliatory Ban of U.S. Adoptions Proposed

The proposed ban appeared to have widespread support among Duma deputies.


MOSCOW — State Duma deputies stepped up Russia’s retaliatory response to the so-called Magnitsky Act on Monday by introducing a measure that would ban U.S. citizens from adopting Russian orphans.

The move was roundly condemned by children’s rights advocates, who warned that a blanket ban on U.S. adoptions would disproportionately affect orphans with mental and physical disabilities.

It also seemed to signal a further souring in the U.S.-Russian relationship, which has suffered since Vladimir Putin’s return to the presidency in May.

The measure would ban U.S. citizens from adopting Russians and bar agencies that facilitate such adoptions from operating in Russia. It would also nullify a bilateral agreement aimed at improving oversight and reducing abuses that was signed last year and went into effect on Nov. 1.

“It’s pure politics and an attempt at blackmail,” said Alexander Gezalov, head of the Successful Orphans project. “Children are not rockets or torpedoes” for governments to use against each other, he said.

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Old 20 Dec 12, 16:15
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Originally Posted by Stryker 19K30 View Post
Russia, quit kidding yourself your system sucks
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Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Tell us the truth.
her orphanage system sucks exactly because it's relied on adoptions by foreigners for too long. Americans would better adopt there own homeless children, especially black ones.
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Old 20 Dec 12, 16:21
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The government seems to have gone mental, shooting itself in the foot at the slightest opportunity. First the Puzzy Riot affair, then these ridiculous gay scandals and threats to Madonna and Lady Gaga, now this
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Old 20 Dec 12, 16:26
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The government seems to have gone mental, shooting itself in the foot at the slightest opportunity. First the Puzzy Riot affair, then these ridiculous gay scandals and threats to Madonna and Lady Gaga, now this
Just business as usual. I just hope they should impose a ban on Jeans Soon. I would laugh.
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Old 20 Dec 12, 16:32
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ban on Jeans
i would certainly have welcomed a ban on jeans of blue and black colours, just hate them.
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Old 20 Dec 12, 16:36
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Originally Posted by stalin View Post
i would certainly have welcomed a ban on jeans of blue and black colours, just hate them.
And also ban all blacks and blues ( aka голубые ) too.
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Old 20 Dec 12, 16:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
And also ban all blacks and blues ( aka голубые ) too
well at least there's a ban on gay marches up here.
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