HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East > Gaza Conflicts

Notices and Announcements

Gaza Conflicts Discuss the series of conflicts between Israel and Gaza militants.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 18 Nov 12, 13:43
marktwain's Avatar
marktwain marktwain is offline
General of the Forums
Canada
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
 
Real Name: Reg S.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 7,230
marktwain has a spectacular aura about [400]
marktwain has a spectacular aura about [400]
Texas, you are forgettign part of the history

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberknight View Post
Texas signed peace treaties with Mexico in 1836 and again a decade later. It rejoined the US after the Civil War along with the rest of th Confederacy and has manged to remain a part of our contentious Union for 150 years. Nobody in Dallas or Lubbock are firing rockets inton Washington or New York City.

The Palestinians neeed to demonstrate that they are willing to try and behave like a country.
+++++++++++++

Sam Houston negotiated & signed the treaty in 1836, along with alliances with the Texas Cherokee, ceasefires with the Commancheria -& got turfed.

Mirabeau Lamar BROKE all of Houston's treaties- with disasterous results - no civilised tribe allies when the Commancheria countr attacked, the Santa Fe Expediton disaster, etc. etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirabeau_B._Lamar
So you see Gaza voting Hamas like Texas voting in Lamar- threatened people do odd stuff!

As to point two, refer to Eisenhower's vision of an expanded Gaza.Or Moshe Dayan's, which would l have solved a lot of stuff in '67.
I am out of here...

Last edited by marktwain; 18 Nov 12 at 17:07..
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 18 Nov 12, 14:04
GCoyote's Avatar
GCoyote GCoyote is offline
ACG Forums - canis administrationem
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Gary C
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Posts: 19,077
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Diplomatic Efforts Mount As Death Toll Rises In Gaza

MELISA GOH and DANA FARRINGTON
November 18, 201210:02 AM

Quote:
... Egyptian security officials say an Israeli official has arrived in Cairo to talk about a possible cease-fire. Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi warns there are no guarantees, Frenkel says.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...-efforts-mount
__________________
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

Questions about our site? See the FAQ.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 18 Nov 12, 17:04
johnbryan's Avatar
johnbryan johnbryan is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: John
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 25,893
johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCoyote View Post
MELISA GOH and DANA FARRINGTON
November 18, 201210:02 AM



http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...-efforts-mount
More Hamas smoke and mirrors. Much better for Israel to really turn up the heat on Hamas in Gaza using airstrikes, helicopter assaults and raids, plus artillery and offshore naval bombardment where needed.
__________________
"Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 18 Nov 12, 17:11
Sergio's Avatar
Sergio Sergio is offline
General of the Forums
UK
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 7,515
Sergio gives and gets respect [800] Sergio gives and gets respect [800]
Sergio gives and gets respect [800] Sergio gives and gets respect [800] Sergio gives and gets respect [800] Sergio gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbryan View Post
More Hamas smoke and mirrors. Much better for Israel to really turn up the heat on Hamas in Gaza using airstrikes, helicopter assaults and raids, plus artillery and offshore naval bombardment where needed.
Are the reports of a more long-term ceasefire negotiations being carried out prior to the killing of Jabari also smoke and mirrors?
__________________
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
G.B Shaw

"They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
Grandad, Only Fools and Horses
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 18 Nov 12, 17:27
Scupio's Avatar
Scupio Scupio is offline
Captain
UK
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Manchester
Posts: 773
Scupio is on the path to success [1-99] Scupio is on the path to success [1-99] Scupio is on the path to success [1-99] Scupio is on the path to success [1-99] Scupio is on the path to success [1-99] Scupio is on the path to success [1-99] Scupio is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Posted by johnbryan View Post
More Hamas smoke and mirrors. Much better for Israel to really turn up the heat on Hamas in Gaza using airstrikes, helicopter assaults and raids, plus artillery and offshore naval bombardment where needed.
Why not just nuke them and be done with it.

One day this load of idiots are going to have to learn to live with each other.

I just wish it was soon or maybe the rest of us saner human beings should despatch the bloody lot to the promised land.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 18 Nov 12, 18:55
johnbryan's Avatar
johnbryan johnbryan is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: John
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 25,893
johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
Are the reports of a more long-term ceasefire negotiations being carried out prior to the killing of Jabari also smoke and mirrors?
Perhaps it was the several thousand Hamas rockets falling on Israel since 2009 that may have had something to do with Israel finally drawing a line in the sand.
__________________
"Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 18 Nov 12, 19:02
johnbryan's Avatar
johnbryan johnbryan is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: John
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 25,893
johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scupio View Post
Why not just nuke them and be done with it.

One day this load of idiots are going to have to learn to live with each other.

I just wish it was soon or maybe the rest of us saner human beings should despatch the bloody lot to the promised land.
The Palestinians don't want to live in peace. During the Camp David accords, Israel literally gave in to EVERYTHING Arafat wanted, including a piece of Jerusalem. It still wasn't enough for the Pal's, so they went back to their usual murderous ways, while screaming and whining to the UN everytime Israel slaps them on the nose with a rolled up newspaper..
__________________
"Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 18 Nov 12, 19:03
johnbryan's Avatar
johnbryan johnbryan is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: John
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 25,893
johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
There's an old and oh so appropriate saying about the Palestinians. "They never miss a chance to miss a chance."
__________________
"Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 18 Nov 12, 19:16
RS116's Avatar
RS116 RS116 is offline
General
Ukraine
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 4,697
RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300]
HAMAS missile launcher





__________________
Dixi.

Beware of Occam's razor !!!!

Last edited by RS116; 18 Nov 12 at 20:17..
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 19 Nov 12, 03:04
TuffGong's Avatar
TuffGong TuffGong is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
Germany
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rhein-Ruhr
Posts: 1,410
TuffGong is on the path to success [1-99] TuffGong is on the path to success [1-99] TuffGong is on the path to success [1-99] TuffGong is on the path to success [1-99] TuffGong is on the path to success [1-99] TuffGong is on the path to success [1-99] TuffGong is on the path to success [1-99]
Here an argument, which aloud to bomb hospitals:

__________________
Mundstuhl - We Germans
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #71  
Old 19 Nov 12, 03:12
Michele's Avatar
Michele Michele is offline
General of the Forums
Italy
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Udine
Posts: 6,607
Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100]
Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frtigern View Post
I believe the real proxy war will come from Lebanon and Hezballah. Iran provides more support to them and they could use an Israeli urban assault into Gaza City as an opportunity to attack from the north. Then we'll see their true capabilities. It would also pressure the UN peacekeepers on the border to act which may escalate the whole conflict to another level.
Yes. Which brings up another question I've had in the back of my head for a while now.
What if this is what the Israeli want?
Let's face it, Hamas has been firing rockets off and on for a while since the last invasion of Gaza. The Israelis have retaliated at low intensity for a while, too. Why do they up the reaction now? Have they just reached the limit of their patience? Or is the issue that - right now, and maybe only for the time being - the Iranians still have no nuclear capability?

Suppose the Israeli invade Gaza. Hezbollah joins in. Hezbollah has stronger, more evident links with iran than Hamas. How will Israel retaliate against Hezbollah?
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 19 Nov 12, 03:15
Sergio's Avatar
Sergio Sergio is offline
General of the Forums
UK
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 7,515
Sergio gives and gets respect [800] Sergio gives and gets respect [800]
Sergio gives and gets respect [800] Sergio gives and gets respect [800] Sergio gives and gets respect [800] Sergio gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbryan View Post
The Palestinians don't want to live in peace. During the Camp David accords, Israel literally gave in to EVERYTHING Arafat wanted, including a piece of Jerusalem. It still wasn't enough for the Pal's, so they went back to their usual murderous ways, while screaming and whining to the UN everytime Israel slaps them on the nose with a rolled up newspaper..
Could you expand upon that please? How exactly did Israel offer Arafat everything that the Palestinians were asking for. Depending which version of events you go for some argue that the Palestinias were not offered viable land and others say that the main sticking point was the right of return. Similarly the failure of these talks then led on to Taba, the failure of which many place more on Israel.

That question, by the way, is not based on support for what Arafat did or said at that point it is a request for facts.

Once again there are an increasing number of reports coming out that Israel was in the midst of negotiations for a long lasting ceasefire with Hamas until they killed Jabari.
__________________
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
G.B Shaw

"They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

Last edited by Sergio; 19 Nov 12 at 03:27..
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 19 Nov 12, 03:33
Michele's Avatar
Michele Michele is offline
General of the Forums
Italy
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Udine
Posts: 6,607
Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100]
Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100] Michele is a pillar of the community [1100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffGong View Post
Here an argument, which aloud to bomb hospitals:
I suppose that by "aloud", you mean "allowed". Your posts are nearly unintelligible. I kindly advise you to brush up your English or to stick to forums in German.

That said, it's not an "argument". It's a fact supported by declassified intelligence that was made public in the Malam report after the 2008 Gaza war.

It may also be interesting for you to know that under Protocol II 1977 additional to the Geneva Convention IV 1949, Art. 13, the protection and safeguards of "civilian medical units" (which by the Protocol's definitions include hospitals) can be "discontinued" if these units are used to commit "acts harmful to the enemy".

Not that Israel - let alone Hamas! - signed that Protocol, but to call a spade a spade, yes, under international law you can bomb hospitals if the enemy is using them to hide command centers and ammunition magazines.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 19 Nov 12, 04:00
Crackshot's Avatar
Crackshot Crackshot is offline
Brigadier General
Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Noosa
Posts: 2,269
Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
Could you expand upon that please? How exactly did Israel offer Arafat everything that the Palestinians were asking for. Depending which version of events you go for some argue that the Palestinias were not offered viable land and others say that the main sticking point was the right of return. Similarly the failure of these talks then led on to Taba, the failure of which many place more on Israel.

That question, by the way, is not based on support for what Arafat did or said at that point it is a request for facts.
97% of the West Bank, all of Gaza, East Jerusalem (including the Temple Mount) as the capital, an overland highway without Israeli interference and a $30 billion refugee compensation.

BTW, what do you mean by Taba? That town was returned to Egypt in the late 1980's. Nothing to do with Oslo and Arafat.

And no, that's not everything the Palestinians were asking for or wanted - they also wanted unrealistic options, like the right of return to Israeli territories by Palestinians who weren't born in Palestine and wanted to skip any citizenship options.

And not only did Arafat choose war, he declined to even counter-offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
Once again there are an increasing number of reports coming out that Israel was in the midst of negotiations for a long lasting ceasefire with Hamas until they killed Jabari.
First of all - there is nothing really definitive other then say-so at this point.

Besides - this all seems to be operating by the assumption that terrorist leaders who shell countries and bomb civilians are trustworthy. Not saying their should be no negotiations, just saying take it with a gain of salt.
__________________
You, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace, after having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.

-- Ataturk
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 19 Nov 12, 04:04
Crackshot's Avatar
Crackshot Crackshot is offline
Brigadier General
Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Noosa
Posts: 2,269
Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffGong View Post
Here an argument, which aloud to bomb hospitals:
How is that an argument to bomb hospitals? The IDF's just calling a spade a spade, Hamas does hide behind kids, hospitals, ambulances, etc. No one is advocating bombing hospitals. Also, I think that's a no-no under the IDF's ROE.
__________________
You, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace, after having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.

-- Ataturk
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:30.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.