HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East > Gaza Conflicts

Notices and Announcements

Gaza Conflicts Discuss the series of conflicts between Israel and Gaza militants.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 16 Nov 12, 23:16
RS116's Avatar
RS116 RS116 is offline
General
Ukraine
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 4,697
RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat Engineer View Post
As I said, he flashes quickly on the screen. Did the BBC notice? I would not if I was not looking for it.

Were the injuries faked? Looks like it, sure.

Once again, I see no reason for them not to fake it. They are in a war and trying to win. Would you NOT do so? We do, why not them?
Once again, It is not about Palestinians.
It is about BBC.
They should not broadcast faked video, or at least, delete
faked, or even suspicious part.

It what IMO should be called balanced, or fair approach.
But it did not happened.
Not on BBC.
__________________
Dixi.

Beware of Occam's razor !!!!
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 16 Nov 12, 23:20
Combat Engineer's Avatar
Combat Engineer Combat Engineer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: John Rainey
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Saint Louis MO
Posts: 23,361
Combat Engineer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Combat Engineer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Combat Engineer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Combat Engineer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Combat Engineer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Combat Engineer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Combat Engineer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Combat Engineer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Combat Engineer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Combat Engineer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Combat Engineer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RS116 View Post
Once again, It is not about Palestinians.
It is about BBC.
They should not broadcast faked video, or at least, delete
faked, or even suspicious part.

It what IMO should be called balanced, or fair approach.
But it did not happened.
Not on BBC.
Your link is to a youtube video. Can you find it still on the BBC site?
__________________
“Who knows himself a braggart, let him fear this, for it will come to pass that every braggart shall be found an ass.”
― William Shakespeare
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 16 Nov 12, 23:51
johnbryan's Avatar
johnbryan johnbryan is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: John
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 25,893
johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+] johnbryan has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
It's past dawn now in the Middle East, so we should see some serious Hamas action in launching rockets.
__________________
"Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 17 Nov 12, 00:43
stalin's Avatar
stalin stalin is offline
Banned
Russia
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: moscow, russia
Posts: 5,953
stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200] stalin is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCoyote View Post
Israel kills Hamas top military leader, destroys Hamas Fajar missiles
the Jews just want to prevent the upcoming dig up of Arafat's corpse.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 17 Nov 12, 01:47
Crackshot's Avatar
Crackshot Crackshot is offline
Brigadier General
Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Noosa
Posts: 2,269
Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200] Crackshot is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by stalin View Post
the Jews just want to prevent the upcoming dig up of Arafat's corpse.
Oh please. You're so full of crap, if someone gave you an enema you'd lose 30 pounds. No, it has nothing to do with the rockets being fired into Israel, it's a Jewish conspiracy.
__________________
You, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace, after having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.

-- Ataturk
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 17 Nov 12, 02:48
TuffGong's Avatar
TuffGong TuffGong is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
Germany
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rhein-Ruhr
Posts: 1,410
TuffGong is on the path to success [1-99] TuffGong is on the path to success [1-99] TuffGong is on the path to success [1-99] TuffGong is on the path to success [1-99] TuffGong is on the path to success [1-99] TuffGong is on the path to success [1-99] TuffGong is on the path to success [1-99]
May you should think about your idea to make the jews responsibel for the crime of the zionists. It would be this special kind of anti-semitism, I don´t like. Enough jews are fighting on the zionis regime. For excample: Not all the germans were Nazis as well not all the Jews are Zionists.
__________________
Mundstuhl - We Germans
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 17 Nov 12, 03:03
Daemon of Decay's Avatar
Daemon of Decay Daemon of Decay is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
Sinc
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: @ThatDerekFellow
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Drying out the home in Texas
Posts: 24,845
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
Sadly, yes. This is the harsh reality. We are animals. That's it.
I'm sorry for you. I try to be more than just a mindless beast. I expect the same from others. There is a reason we have standards for behavior that except a level of decency and morality from our fellow man, and why we are so disgusted when those rules are broken.

We do not live like animals. The fact that we have this discussion in the first place is proof already of that fact.

Quote:
That it true. But also, at the end of the day, the purpose of a nation's military is to protect it's own population.

You're taking it too far. You're argument paints everything black and white, but we live in a world of shades of grey. We didn't need to kill every German and Jap, just reduce them to a point where the threat will not return. We can say that Germany and Japan are much better off as a result.
I have not taken it too far, I am just apply what was said in its most basic and simple terms.

If a military has no moral responsibility but to protect its own population, then the best means of doing that is to completely eradicate all threats. If one follows the logic that you expressed then US should have put every German man, woman, and child up against the wall to ensure there were no future threats to Americans in the near or far-future. After all, history had shown that Germans can not be trusted to stay peaceful. Barely a generations passed before they were starting another, even more devastating, world war. Only the eradication of all Germans could guarantee peace and safety for Americans.

Animals have no compunction killing the defenseless. If you are right then the military is nothing but an appendage of the state with no greater purpose than self-preservation and no restrictions on its actions except those inflicted upon it by those naive fools who fail to understand the need for armed conflict to progress outside the boundaries of human morality.

If a nation has only the moral duty to protect itself and its people, and threats to the nation excuse any and all means at ones disposal, then one cannot argue morality on any level. If you are right then the holocaust was not immoral nor wrong - the Aryan state was eradicating a physical and genetic threat to its "nation".

War excuses nothing. A society that is willing to disregard its basic humanity when it is prudent or expedient is a shameful disgrace and a sad reflection of an immoral people. Thankfully I live in a nation that does not throw its morality away just because it would make things easier.

Morality is hard; it is a struggle to live a moral life. Living like an animal, without morality, is the easy way - the cowards way. True heroes do not discard morality because it is expedient to do so. They do what is right, not what is easy.

Quote:
Our primary concern, in war, is to protect the homeland. That's it.
Primary is not the same as only. Of course our primary concern is to protect ourselves and to win. But our primary concern does not override common human morality.

Quote:
However, the conflicts we have engaged in since WW2, with few exceptions, are "complicated". We've engaged in "police actions" and "nation building" that hamper our forces. Unfortunately, our enemies are/were fighting wars.
So a dozen or so victories and status quo ante bellum's, and one loss - and thats just the 20th century. Not bad for not deciding to embrace mass murder.

Quote:
BUT, this isn't about US forces. This is about Israel/Palestine. Israel MUST act to protect it's people first. The safety of any Palestinian is secondary. And I expect the same from the Palestinians.
I don't. I hold both sides to the same standards. I do not let my guard down and expect everyone to follow them, but I judge them according to those standards. Terrorists are not just in the wrong because of who they are fighting, they are in the wrong because of the tactics they employ.

Morals and ethics do not get put on hold when it is convenient. If your contention that national defense is the primary concern and that one has no obligation for morality when at war, then one cannot judge any activity engaged in while at 'war' in moral terms.

Thus the Normady Invasion is no better or worse than the Rape of Nanjing, morally speaking. We were at war with the Nazis; the Japanese were at war with the Chinese. The Holocaust just becomes another "front" in a war where the Nazi's were fighting to exterminate a threat. It doesn't matter then that the "threat" was unarmed - they had a duty to protect their nation, and as their nation was both a political and a racial construct, that meant exterminating any threat to either.

I think the best thing I can say, in the end, is that thankfully the world doesn't subscribe to your views. And I am glad to say that the Israeli men and women who are even now risking their lives to protect their countrymen will continue to try and fight in a moral manner against an immoral foe. Because that is what the heroes of a moral society do - they take on the challenge of fighting within the constraints of human morality because they value that morality.
__________________
"In Iraq, the U.S. intervened and occupied, and the result was a costly disaster. In Libya, the U.S. intervened and did not occupy, and the result was a costly disaster. In Syria, the U.S. neither intervened nor occupied, and the result is a costly disaster."
-- Philip Gordon, 2015

Last edited by Daemon of Decay; 17 Nov 12 at 04:20..
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 17 Nov 12, 06:43
Gixxer86g's Avatar
Gixxer86g Gixxer86g is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Jim
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Lost Valley
Posts: 15,553
Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Gixxer86g has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
I'm sorry for you. I try to be more than just a mindless beast. I expect the same from others.
I'm not going to repost your entire quote.

Just because I see the world for what it is, doesn't mean I like it. We may not be simple beasts, but we are animals. You just choose to ignore what is going on all around you. We may evolve on an individual level, but as a whole the animal still manifests itself all around the world.

We have our values, our enemies have theirs. That is reality. Our previous president thought he could impose our values on Iraq, and look what happened. We are still attempting to impose our values on Afghanistan, and look what is happening.

Normandy and Nanking have nothing in common. However, there are other comparisons that could be made from the same era that are valid. Dresden, Tallin, etc. And yes, they were justified. History is written by the winners. And these are all examples of the human animal. But this is much more severe than civilians killed because their "freedom fighters" set up a mortar in their backyard.

I honestly wish we were as evolved as a species as you would like to believe. Unfortunately the wolf is still out there.
__________________
ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 17 Nov 12, 09:43
PhilipLaos's Avatar
PhilipLaos PhilipLaos is offline
Lord Of The English Manor
UK
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Philip Gibson
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vientiane, Laos
Posts: 14,580
PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
What these four gentlemen come up with will be.................

Quote:
Hamas official confirms meeting of Hamas leader Meshal, Emir of Qatar, Egypt's Mursi and Turkey's Erdogan in Cairo tonight - @JonDonnison


Philip
__________________
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."— Bertrand Russell
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 17 Nov 12, 10:25
RS116's Avatar
RS116 RS116 is offline
General
Ukraine
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 4,697
RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat Engineer View Post
Your link is to a youtube video. Can you find it still on the BBC site?
It doesn't matter.
Such video lives one - two days,
does its jobs and disappears.

Even if they removed this video,
it is still irrelevant by the reasons I have mentioned above.
Unless BBC published official apology for mistake,
which they have not done.
__________________
Dixi.

Beware of Occam's razor !!!!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #71  
Old 17 Nov 12, 10:27
Hida Akechi's Avatar
Hida Akechi Hida Akechi is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Jeff Allison
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Noblesville, IN
Posts: 6,223
Hida Akechi is a jewel in the rough [500]
Hida Akechi is a jewel in the rough [500] Hida Akechi is a jewel in the rough [500] Hida Akechi is a jewel in the rough [500] Hida Akechi is a jewel in the rough [500] Hida Akechi is a jewel in the rough [500] Hida Akechi is a jewel in the rough [500] Hida Akechi is a jewel in the rough [500] Hida Akechi is a jewel in the rough [500]
Comedic Communist Causes Coughing Fit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackshot View Post
Oh please. You're so full of crap, if someone gave you an enema you'd lose 30 pounds. No, it has nothing to do with the rockets being fired into Israel, it's a Jewish conspiracy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stalin
the Jews just want to prevent the upcoming dig up of Arafat's corpse.
This made me laugh so hard I think I broke something. I won't say it's the stupidest thing I've read here, but it's close.

But, to counter it...no wait, it's so stupid it counters itself. And Crackshot pretty much summed up how to treat stalin's posts.
__________________
The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 17 Nov 12, 10:28
RS116's Avatar
RS116 RS116 is offline
General
Ukraine
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 4,697
RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300] RS116 is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackshot View Post
Oh please. You're so full of crap, if someone gave you an enema you'd lose 30 pounds. No, it has nothing to do with the rockets being fired into Israel, it's a Jewish conspiracy.

He is banned from Politics forum, so he needs some
implementation for his talents.
__________________
Dixi.

Beware of Occam's razor !!!!
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 17 Nov 12, 10:41
Glenn239's Avatar
Glenn239 Glenn239 is offline
General of the Forums
Canada
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 6,495
Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackshot View Post
Oh please. You're so full of crap, if someone gave you an enema you'd lose 30 pounds. No, it has nothing to do with the rockets being fired into Israel, it's a Jewish conspiracy.
If Israel is about to attack Iran, occupying Gaza will secure that flank from counterattack.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 17 Nov 12, 10:43
Glenn239's Avatar
Glenn239 Glenn239 is offline
General of the Forums
Canada
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 6,495
Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200] Glenn239 is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
Just because I see the world for what it is, doesn't mean I like it....
Just...stop.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 17 Nov 12, 10:46
PhilipLaos's Avatar
PhilipLaos PhilipLaos is offline
Lord Of The English Manor
UK
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Philip Gibson
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vientiane, Laos
Posts: 14,580
PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+] PhilipLaos has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn239 View Post
If Israel is about to attack Iran, occupying Gaza will secure that flank from counterattack.
If you're thinking like that then, like me, you're probably wondering what role Hezbollah are going to play in this.

They have lots of rockets aimed at Israel, too.


Philip
__________________
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."— Bertrand Russell
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:15.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.