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Real Time Strategy Games Discussion of all strategy games that use a Real-Time system, from the typical RTS games to the hardcore wargames.

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  #31  
Old 10 Nov 12, 21:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StellarRat View Post
It's not the game or the functionality of anyone scenarios, it's that your both carrying on a personal feud on this website that supposed be for discussing games. Please carry on by email or Skype or something besides here. I have a pair of pistols if you want to go that route.
Absolutely. I apologize for having gotten side-tracked by Herman a couple of times because that has not been helpful. From now on, I'm going to make an effort to simply talk about the scenarios.
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  #32  
Old 10 Nov 12, 21:39
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Getting them fixed and actually functional would probably be better than just talking about it and them.

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Originally Posted by Herman Hum View Post
I notice that you have yet to repair the problems found and reported within your scenarios:

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...4&postcount=16
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  #33  
Old 10 Nov 12, 22:22
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The Taking of Sakhalin, from the HUD3 GC1 battleset

AAR by Mark Gellis

I am taking the role of Japan. It is 1994 and I have to escort amphibious ships to a landing point on Sakhalin. The Russians, not surprisingly, are eager to stop me. They have a task force in the area and some submarines, including an Oscar, according to my intelligence briefing. I have my task force, a trio of submarines, and about 20 aircraft at Sapporo.

Before starting, I set up patrol missions for the submarines, as I am playing at full realism and will not be able to control them otherwise. I’m sending all three on sub hunts.

This scenario was prepared for the HUD-4 (v1.1 b10) simply by opening it in the scenario editor and rebuilding all platforms; the revised scenario was then saved.

Scenario seems to load properly. I made a point of keeping an eye out for database errors. In this scenario, I did observe one database error that might have affected gameplay; it will be discussed in detail later in this AAR.

20:00. Set course for task force. I’m going to hug the coast and hope that helps. Sending up a Hawkeye and a P-3.

20:09. Putting up two Eagles and…Vampire! Vampire! I’ve got incoming missiles headed for my task force. I’m going to full active sensors on the task force. My SAMs are already firing at the incoming group of missiles. Where the hell did they come from!?

20:13. Missiles are downed. RIM-66s seem to handle them fine.

20:15. More planes ready at Sapporo.

20:18. Another pair of incoming missiles, fired by something to the west. Both missiles downed by 20:19 by SAMs.

20:21. More incoming missiles and an air contact. Sending F-15 s to look at the air contact.

20:24. More missiles down and more missiles coming in from the West—it has to be the Oscar that has been reported in the area in my intelligence briefing, but where is he?

20:37. The contacts have been ID’d as hostile and the Eagles are taking them down. More missiles incoming! If I did not have a Kongo in this task force, I would probably be dead already.

20:41. J-Eagles splash one bogie. Incoming missiles destroyed by SAMs. Eagles are out of missiles, so I’m putting up two more and two F-4s with SO loadouts. And now there are more incoming missiles!

20:50. The barage of incoming cruise missiles seems endless, but my SAMS are handling them.

20:58. More missiles down and no ships hurt.

21:00. I have lost track of my subs. They’re on patrol and I wish them good hunting.

21:07. Another air contact to the northwest…sending Eagles to check it out.

21:11. Eagles returning to base. Low on fuel. But now the bogies that ran away are coming back. Sending two of my F-4s after them. They’ve got Sparrow-Ms, too, so they can double as interceptors.

21:22 Two unidentified contacts close by. I’ve got F-4s looking hard at them. One bogie is hostile and fires but its missile does not hit my F-4. Instead, it is shot down. Closing on other bogie. ID’d as a Flanker and shot down with an AIM-7M. The victorious F-4s are going home. No other bogies in sight right now.

21:27 Two more bogies are up. Sending Eagles to look at them.

21:45. Sending a P-3 to patrol the passage between Japan and Sakhalin. Good place to put a submarine.

21:48. Bogies hostile…F-15s taking them on. The F-15s start to head back to base. A curious bit of game behavior is that the AI will sometimes decide it is time for an aircraft to come home even if it has a bit of fuel or ammunition left. I am not sure what causes this. One can order the aircraft to do something else, but its default instructions are now to head home and one has to “nag” it a little to keep it on any other task. In this case, a bit of fancy flying lets me maneuver the F-15 into range of one of the bogies and take it down with its last missile.

22:29. Got a bogie headed towards my task force. No clear ID. If he gets too close to my ships, I will down him and face a board of inquiry later if I have to.

22:34. Bogie is hostile and firing missiles at the task force. He stays out of range so I cannot get him with a SAM. No ships hit, though.

23:15. More bogies going after task force. I’m shooting down missiles and getting a couple of them, too, but not as many as I want. My task force is still okay, though.

00:15. I’ve been having the P-3 drop sonobuoys in the channel but no contacts so far.

03:03. More air contacts. Putting up two Eagles.

03:22. Contacts are hostile. Hostile bogies splashed with AIM-7Ms.

03:56. New air contact to the west of the task force, which is now nearly at the channel between Sakhalin and Japan.

04:09. Eagles splash another bogie.

05:43. Sub contact in channel and not where one of my patrolling subs should be. Hostile? Sending the Orion to check him out.

07:15. Various air contacts appear, but do not get close to task force anymore.

08:17. I sent a pair of F-15s to investigate two air contacts. Both were hostile. Both are destroyed, but I have lost one F-15 to their missiles.

08:42. Hostile sub spotted. I know he is hostile because he is shooting at me! I am returning fire. Oh, no! The dreaded database ASROC error has reared its ugly head! Some ASROCs do not fire properly in the HUD-4. It is very annoying! However, the error has been reported to the database editor and the editor thinks he has the problem solved and the fix will be in the next release of the database. Meanwhile, I have no intention of giving up just because one weapon does not fire! I’ll shoot back with anything I’ve got, and I’ve got a Kongo-class destroyer with VLS ASROCs that are NOT affected by the database error. And I’ve got other ships with other torpedoes. I’m sinking this sub! Four torpedoes on their way, baby!

8:48. A destroyer, Yamagumo, appears to have been sunk by torpedoes from the sub. But the sub appears to have been sunk, too, so it’s an even trade.

8:54. Oh, no! One of my amphibious ships, the Ojika, is sinking, too! One of the torpedoes fired by the enemy sub must still have been running. In retrospect, as the sub fired its torpedoes before I was able to shoot back, the failure of some of the ASROC weapons was probably academic in this case. My two ships probably would have been sunk no matter what I did.

12:00. Surface contacts spotted to the West. Sending F-4s with missiles to investigate.

12:30. Ships hostile and firing. I’m firing with missiles and trying to get out of there!

12:40. All four F-4s lost! At least one of the ships in this task force have some serious SAM capability.

22:22 I’m getting close to the target area and suddenly another of my ships, the Umigiri, is sinking! I’m not sure what hit it. Submarine?

I search for the submarine, but to no avail. And he keeps shooting at me. By 0:600 of the next morning, I have lost all but three of my ships.

I am not surprised at 20:00 that I learn I have not achieved the victory conditions. I did sink the one submarine and I shot down about eight enemy aircraft (including Flankers and a Tu-95), but I lost several aircraft and more than half of my task force. The high command is not going to be very happy with me. I’ll probably get a choice between seppuku and having to watch the live action version of Sailor Moon.

Although I lost, I liked this scenario. It’s got some sneaky surprises in it and you need to really need to be on your ASW game to win.
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  #34  
Old 10 Nov 12, 22:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgellis View Post
Iíll probably get a choice between seppuku and having to watch the live action version of Sailor Moon.
Or, worse. You might have to try and run through another HUD4 scenario.

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Originally Posted by Herman Hum View Post
I notice that you have yet to repair the problems found and reported within your scenarios:

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...4&postcount=16
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  #35  
Old 15 Nov 12, 19:39
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A new H3/ANW scenario is available at Harpgamer...

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index...des-wind-2017/

Operation Andes Wind (2017)

A few years in the future...a military coup has put a junta hostile to the United States in power in Chile. American citizens need to be evacuated before they can be detained and used as hostages. An amphibious task force, and two other ships, must complete this mission while protecting themselves against Chilean forces.

Comments and feedback on storyline, tactics, choice of units, design, etc. welcome.

No errors were spotted in the posted version of the scenario (I would not have posted it if I thought there were errors), but if I did miss something, please document it so I can pass the information on to the database editor. Thanks.
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  #36  
Old 15 Nov 12, 21:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgellis View Post
Comments and feedback on storyline, tactics, choice of units, design, etc. welcome.

No errors were spotted in the posted version of the scenario (I would not have posted it if I thought there were errors), but if I did miss something, please document it so I can pass the information on to the database editor. Thanks.
Tried to run this scenario and immediately stopped it as soon as this previously reported bug was encountered, as per the established doctrine regarding HUD4 scenarios and database bugs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman Hum View Post
I notice that you have yet to repair the problems found and reported within your scenarios:

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...4&postcount=16
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  #37  
Old 16 Nov 12, 00:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman Hum View Post
Tried to run this scenario and immediately stopped it as soon as this previously reported bug was encountered, as per the established doctrine regarding HUD4 scenarios and database bugs.
The issue with the RUR-5A Mod 4 (Mk46m5) missile has already been reported. Of course, there shouldn't be any of those in this scenario (the American DDG and the CG both use a VLS system and I don't think the RUR-5A can be loaded in it), so I'm not sure how the error even cropped up this time. At what point did the error occur?

Does anyone have any other feedback about the scenario?
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  #38  
Old 16 Nov 12, 11:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgellis View Post
The issue with the RUR-5A Mod 4 (Mk46m5) missile has already been reported. Of course, there shouldn't be any of those in this scenario (the American DDG and the CG both use a VLS system and I don't think the RUR-5A can be loaded in it), so I'm not sure how the error even cropped up this time. At what point did the error occur?

Does anyone have any other feedback about the scenario?
The link was wrong. It should have been:

Quote:
the predominant game problem encountered with the HUD4 is the fact that many, Many, MANY weapons fail to fire.

http://community.combatsim.com/topic...0#entry5147556
Because of that oversight, I'll give you your third (and final) freebie. It's not the job of any player to test a database or scenario. The database bug is the inabilty of the MH-60S Knighthawk to fire the AGM-114A missiles at any ship under any speed, altitude, range, or circumstance. The fact that these ASROC and MH-60S bugs are so easily found with just the most superficial testing is simple testament to the incredible bugginess of HUD4.

My time has been wasted thrice finding bugs that were discovered within minutes. I will not be wasting any more time pointing out such glaringly obvious database errors especially since any more efforts yield no results. If I have my time wasted encountering them, you can spend your own time actually hunting them down yourself. (a.k.a testing)

Once again, I will pre-empt the usual stupid excuses of:
1) It has been reported (since it isn't a fix)
2) It will be fixed in the future (since the scen was released for play TODAY)
3) Find another weapon that actually works (since it isn't role of a player to need to FIND something that actually works)
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  #39  
Old 16 Nov 12, 21:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman Hum View Post

...It's not the job of any player to test a database or scenario....

My time has been wasted thrice finding bugs that were discovered within minutes. I will not be wasting any more time pointing out such glaringly obvious database errors especially since any more efforts yield no results. If I have my time wasted encountering them, you can spend your own time actually hunting them down yourself. (a.k.a testing)...
I've never thought it was anyone's job to test my scenarios, but Harpoon is a community (at least, the Harpooners I know feel that way). We talk to each other. We help each other out. We share ideas and techniques.

For example, I'm not a database editor. I have no official connection to Harpoon. I'm just another player. It's not my job to help, either, but I like Harpoon, and I do not mind helping out when I can by writing scenarios, reporting any bugs I catch, etc. It's just not a big deal to me. And I do test my scenarios, but I know that with something as complex as Harpoon that I might miss something, so I try not to get upset if someone finds a bug or an error that I missed. I report it and do whatever else I can to solve the problem. It's not my job. I just do it because I like to.

If you feel that playing my scenarios is a waste of your time...you know, you don't have to play them. You've made it clear that you don't like the HUD-4 and you've said you aren't interested in helping improve it. Frankly, it seems a little silly for you to keep playing my scenarios if you're only doing it to see how soon you can quit.

I'd like to get back to some real content here. Has anyone had a chance to play the whole scenario? If so, what did you think? Did you like the concept? How challenging was it? What could be done to make future scenarios better and more interesting?
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  #40  
Old 17 Nov 12, 09:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgellis View Post
I've never thought it was anyone's job to test my scenarios, but Harpoon is a community (at least, the Harpooners I know feel that way). We talk to each other. We help each other out. We share ideas and techniques.
You say one thing but then immediately do the opposite. You claim that it isn't the players' job to test your scenario, then continue to put out scenarios that you do not test yourself and then encourage anyone gullible enough to try them to report problems. Problems are found (glaring ones, not spelling mistakes) and reported along with suggested corrective actions, you immediately ignore them, and ask for 'more folks to try the scenario.' That ongoing callous disregard for the time and effort of anyone willing to try your scenarios is abundantly clear throughout this thread.

You have no intention of ever fixing your scenarios. You simply seek adulation, high-fives, and handjobs. Since all you want are gushing remarks, you should just say so and then simply tell us what our opinions are so that we can repeat it back to you verbatim; that's the way things are done within the little in-bred 'community' at HarpGamer so I can see why you would think the same would happen here. Luckily, this is the real world and everyone is free to their own opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgellis View Post
For example, I'm not a database editor. I have no official connection to Harpoon. I'm just another player. It's not my job to help, either, but I like Harpoon, and I do not mind helping out when I can by writing scenarios, reporting any bugs I catch, etc. It's just not a big deal to me. And I do test my scenarios, but I know that with something as complex as Harpoon that I might miss something, so I try not to get upset if someone finds a bug or an error that I missed. I report it and do whatever else I can to solve the problem. It's not my job. I just do it because I like to.
It's pretty obvious that your testing is either superficial or totally absent. The HUD database bugs being reported aren't grammatical typos as they often prevent a player from ever completing a scenario. They are THAT serious. It isn't just the matter of encountering bugs. Everyone can accidentally release a scenario with errors. However, your conduct towards bug reports can only be described as egregious and reprehensible. Instead of just Fixing the Damn Bugs and carrying onwards, all manner of speculation and excuse is offered:

i.e. "Maybe the bug is deliberate game behaviour?
If a weapon doesn't work, find another that does.
It will be fixed in the future."

This litany of excuses is proffered instead of just Fixing the Damn Bugs, an action which is fully within your control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgellis View Post
If you feel that playing my scenarios is a waste of your time...you know, you don't have to play them. You've made it clear that you don't like the HUD-4 and you've said you aren't interested in helping improve it. Frankly, it seems a little silly for you to keep playing my scenarios if you're only doing it to see how soon you can quit.
Hubris was mentioned earlier in this thread and it appears, once again. You feel that these messages are intended solely for your personal benefit and nothing could be further from the truth. If you care to use them to fix your scenarios, that is fine. However, their primary intent is to warn unsuspecting players of the incredible bugginess in the HUD and its scenarios.

A player might start one of your scenarios, spend an hour or two planning and preparing his attack, and then run the game only to find that when his bombers arrive over the targe, his weapons will not launch! He climbs and dives desperately trying to find some way to release his ordnance all the while the AI is slaughtering him. After hours have been wasted, he ends the session in frustration. Who does he ask to explain this stuff? He might ask you, but he more likely asks me. In order to provide the best assistance possible, I need to know what he is talking about so I hold my nose and run the HUD scenarios. My greatest fear is that he might try an HUD scenario and think that all databases and scenarios are as buggy and unplayable.

The only reason the HUD4 doctrine of "Run to the First Bug" was developed was because I was one of the idiots who wasted hours trying to get a scenario to perform. Facing the HUD ordeal once is enough to justify such extreme measures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgellis View Post
I'd like to get back to some real content here. Has anyone had a chance to play the whole scenario? If so, what did you think? Did you like the concept? How challenging was it? What could be done to make future scenarios better and more interesting?
Since I have not told you what want to hear, I suspect that you will follow your usual routine and throw a tantrum then claim that you have somehow been insulted before retreating back to HarpGamer so that you can speak badly about me and others. Here's some real content for you: fix your scenarios and someone might try them. You've been on every forum begging for someone to try your scenarios as if there was a 'right answer'. The only response you get is the typical handjob from the usual suspects (many of whom don't even play Harpoon!)

It is funny to note that every HUD author feels the need to go around begging for someone to try their database or scenarios. You are not the first. There was Buckley, Ralf, and now you. All went begging hat-in-hand for players only to be ignored. On the other hand, no PlayersDB author has ever felt the need to beg for users. We just make our stuff work and trust that the community will recognize the difference. Over 7 million scenario downloads to date far means that we are on the right track. So, I'll say it again: make your stuff work and someone might try it.

At this time:

1) None of the reported database bugs have been corrected within the HUD4 database.
2) Every HUD scenario is afflicted and none of the reported database bugs have been corrected for any of the associated scenarios.
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  #41  
Old 22 Nov 12, 00:57
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The newest beta for H3/ANW has been released...

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index...te/#entry39692
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  #42  
Old 23 Nov 12, 23:42
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A new H3/ANW scenario is available for download, written by Steven Raymond. I have not had a chance to try it out yet, but I thought I would let people know it has been posted. I believe it uses the newly released beta version of H3 ANW 3.11.

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index...se-aggression/
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  #43  
Old 24 Nov 12, 04:55
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Already tried it and found that it is afflicted with the same Weapons Will not Fire bugs previously reported in this thread.
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  #44  
Old 24 Nov 12, 10:44
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Already tried it and found that it is afflicted with the same Weapons Will not Fire bugs previously reported in this thread.
Please identify specific errors so they can be fixed.
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  #45  
Old 24 Nov 12, 11:53
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Herman Hum is on a distinguished road [300] Herman Hum is on a distinguished road [300] Herman Hum is on a distinguished road [300] Herman Hum is on a distinguished road [300] Herman Hum is on a distinguished road [300] Herman Hum is on a distinguished road [300] Herman Hum is on a distinguished road [300] Herman Hum is on a distinguished road [300] Herman Hum is on a distinguished road [300] Herman Hum is on a distinguished road [300] Herman Hum is on a distinguished road [300] Herman Hum is on a distinguished road [300] Herman Hum is on a distinguished road [300] Herman Hum is on a distinguished road [300]
Sorry, I already identified and posted three HUD4 bugs that you then reported as your own discoveries. You will have to conduct your own testing to pinpoint these bugs if you want the credit.
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Last edited by Herman Hum; 24 Nov 12 at 12:02..
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