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The Barracks For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Members can retire from the serious discussions elsewhere on the forums...and relax here.

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  #31  
Old 30 Sep 12, 09:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipLaos View Post
Same with 1960s, 1970s......No apostrophes needed. They're just normal plurals.
Are they? When it comes to multiple members of a family, one will insert an apostrophe before the "s" that denotes the plural: "the Smith's," for example. Does not the same apply to "the 1960's"?

I'm sorry, but it just doesn't sit well with me to take English grammar advice from a Geordie who sounds like his mouth is full of oats.

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  #32  
Old 30 Sep 12, 11:21
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I don't know, really, Philip. Old habits left over from me mums schoolin of a wee lad. I was beginning to read & write at 3... 2 years before starting school. Me spellin of "humour", "colour", "armour" & other such things with the u drives peeps nuts, too. Me talents & gifts in life have never been hobbled even slightly by me sorry failings in propa English. As well, when required, I can become handily effective enough with the language when required according to the setting & technical or diplomatic requirement. But generally, in a setting like this, I type as it rolls out of me. That don't mean I ain't open to improvin me understanding of the 'rules' in propa terms. You must remember, me public edjumucation ended at 10th grade. I'm sure you realize that wasn't the end of my education, mate, but in terms of 'English as a subject', there ya go.

When I'm reading about something & talking with others in a message forum, I'm never even slightly put off by punctuation, poor spelling or other foibles & such. Lack of capitalization does seem to annoy, though. Prolly why I 'over cap' so much... enh henh henh henh. When English generally isn't the subject, I can figure it out, or simply ask if I have questions. In an international community such as this, there are so many instances of what, to me, would be not a lot different than if a Scot, an Auzzie, a Frenchie, a Canuckian, Ukranian, an Indian & a redneck Murican all met at a pub & started talkin about world events or the weather in English... I find much more amusement in any of the 'clashes' manifesting themselves as true examples of a good many people separated by a common language in this sort of setting. I learned very early that spelling, punctuation & idiosyncratic use of language is actually no indication of real intellect. Einstein could barely tie his shoes. Sometimes he simply didn't even try. Me brother is a certified genius, but that boy ain't gotta lick of common sense. The wisest person I've ever known could barely write or read in any language. I know several people that seem to write in English near perfectly - and they're dumber than a box of rocks, or even a bucket of sand. Many would argue otherwise, but to most folks in a forum/messageboard setting, as long as they can communicate their idears, piddlin the small stuff is merely just another distraction in a casual discussion that ain't about English itself. They ain't here to impress or be impressed by somebody... most, not all, anyway. Some use many words... say nothin - but they're just proud as hell in 'hearin themselves talk'. Others use few word... say all that needs sayin - and couldn't care any less if somebody notices just how simple it was. I don't generally care if somebody else thinx I'm stupid. I'm secure about myself & simply not going to waste time worryin about it. Given time, they'll either figger out that I actually am stupid, or I ain't, & no amount of perfect English is gonna change that when all is said & done looking back. Stupid is as stupid does in the minds eye of them that decides it & I'm here to enjoy myself, with & among others.

Believe it or not, I am amused when you 'show me the way' & certainly NOT ungrateful, actually!

I may be an old dog, but I ain't ancient like you, so new tricks ain't outta the question, mate!

Perhaps a quote with red mark ups?



(That oughta keep 'im busy for awhile, maties!)
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  #33  
Old 30 Sep 12, 11:36
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Here'sa one that just drives me googlie eyed!

"irregardless"

WTF?


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  #34  
Old 30 Sep 12, 12:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post
Are they? When it comes to multiple members of a family, one will insert an apostrophe before the "s" that denotes the plural: "the Smith's," for example. Does not the same apply to "the 1960's"?
Many people do as you say. Doesn't mean its correct though.

Quote:
Rule 5

Do not use an apostrophe for the plural of a name.

Examples:
We visited the Sanchezes in Los Angeles.
The Changs have two cats and a dog.

From: http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/apostro.asp
Philip
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  #35  
Old 30 Sep 12, 17:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipLaos View Post
The Changs have two cats and a dog.
What about: The Changs' two dogs dug up my garden?
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  #36  
Old 30 Sep 12, 18:02
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I think the important thing to remember about using an apostrophe is what it's being used for. There are two basic uses :
1. To indicate possession : you can usually work out if this is the case by replacing the apostrophe with of or belonging to . For example Richard's two dogs would mean the two dogs belonging to Richard.
2. To indicate missing letters. It's has lost the i of is. Rock 'n' roll has lost both the a and d of and.
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  #37  
Old 30 Sep 12, 18:19
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When can we use "it's" or "its"? Those confuse the hell out of me.
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  #38  
Old 30 Sep 12, 18:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
What about: The Changs' two dogs dug up my garden?
That means the two dogs belong to the Changs.
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  #39  
Old 30 Sep 12, 18:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Evans View Post
When can we use "it's" or "its"? Those confuse the hell out of me.
it's means it is. The apostrophe indicates the missing letter

its is a possessive form. e.g. "Europe just won its second Ryder Cup in succession."


Philip
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  #40  
Old 30 Sep 12, 19:04
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This continues to be a common mistake here and elsewhere:

Quote:
Look at Kosovo. The Serbs could care less how many Albanians lived there.
Which is a pity because it conveys exactly the opposite meaning to that which he intended. What he should have said is:

Look at Kosovo. The Serbs couldn't care less how many Albanians lived there.


Philip
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  #41  
Old 30 Sep 12, 19:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Evans View Post
When can we use "it's" or "its"? Those confuse the hell out of me.
Like PhliipLaos mentioned its is a possessive form : to be more precise it is the third person possessive singular neuter pronoun.

These pronouns came from earlier usage of the possessive (or genitive case) s . You can see the same thing with the other two singular third person possessive pronouns his and hers
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  #42  
Old 30 Sep 12, 19:38
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Talking of words and phrases that are commonly mis-used and express the opposite of what is intended, what do you think is meant by the following:

"That is now a moot point."


Philip
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  #43  
Old 30 Sep 12, 20:09
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When I use it, it is generally to say that the point being referred to was no longer actually relevant or worth much argument because the issue or point of disagreement is or was no longer really germaine to the much larger subject or circumstances. Not to say something is or isn't a fact, but that agreement is not actually going to change much of anything in the larger scheme of topical or subjective circumstances or final results. It really doesn't matter whether we agree on the brush strokes in terms of the big picture that is now so obvious.

The fact that my English sux, when the topic is that hell's comin to supper, is now a moot point because hell HAS come to supper!


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  #44  
Old 30 Sep 12, 20:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral View Post
When I use it, it is generally to say that the point being referred to was no longer actually relevant or worth much argument.....
That is the way "moot" is used almost universally these days. However, it is the opposite of the way dictionaries define it.

Here’s the first definition of moot as given in the OED:
Quote:
1. open to argument, debatable; uncertain, doubtful; unable to be firmly resolved. Freq. in moot case, [moot] point.

IMO, most people understand/use the word in the same way as you. That is, the opposite of the way dictionaries define it. I expect that future dictionaries will need to change their definition of the word in order to remain consistent with current usage..

Philip
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  #45  
Old 30 Sep 12, 20:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipLaos View Post
Talking of words and phrases that are commonly mis-used and express the opposite of what is intended, what do you think is meant by the following:

"That is now a moot point."


Philip
Actually, Philip, I will disagree with you on this one. Generally speaking, moot means "debatable" or "subject to debate". Thus, it would appear that when a person states "that is a moot point", they are stating that "the point is open to discussion" instead of "not worth debating", the latter being how many people actually end up using this term.

However, the interpretation of moot meaning "not worthy of debate" derives from another use of the term moot as in mootness, which is an American legal term, which refers to the lack of legal applicability or significance of a given matter or argument. In other words, that a given point has only academic value, but no practical legal significance.

Thus, although standard British English would interpret "That is now a moot point" as meaning "that is a debatable point", American English would interpret "That is now a moot point" as meaning "This point is not worth debating". Both are correct, depending upon the context and the background of the speaker.
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