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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East > Syrian Civil War, 2011 - ?

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Syrian Civil War, 2011 - ? From a local uprising to a proxy war, we discuss the chaos in Syria.

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  #61  
Old 11 Jun 12, 00:36
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Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
The rebels are already fighting in the streets of the capital. So far I haven't heard of any condemnation of such attacks yet. In the interest of fairness, should we expect one?
Condemnation of what & by whom? Why should anyone be 'fair' to a violent dictatorship? Why would any reasonable person even think it a reasonable question to ask?

Assad is hoping to provoke a deeper & more violent sectarian conflict than is currently underway in order to intensify support among non-Sunni minorities. So far it appears not to be working, though if this goes on long enough it probably will.

Quote:
A question in general: what should the reasonable response be to attackers who ambush your forces and withdraw into their village/town/district to hide? If one had enough forces it would be relatively easy to answer, but what if (as is usually the case) your forces can't be everywhere they're needed at once?
1) If the Assad regime was composed of 'reasonable people' none of this would have happened, so the premise is itself deeply flawed;

2) Widespread shelling of villages & suburbs preceded widespread ambushes on government forces & I'm betting there has been a lot more shelling than ambushing;

3) With the exception of the occasional diseased mind there is no possible way to justify the execution of women & children.

Of course, nothing in your reply had an awful lot to do with what I posted, but I've answered you anyway.

Assad is going down. Maybe not this week, this month or perhaps even this year, but his regime is critically wounded.
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  #62  
Old 11 Jun 12, 01:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BF69 View Post
Why should anyone be 'fair' to a violent dictatorship?
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Originally Posted by BF69 View Post
If the Assad regime was composed of 'reasonable people' none of this would have happened
all this makes me think that the usa can be stopped only when its saudi arabia and bahrain are thoroughly bombed out.
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  #63  
Old 11 Jun 12, 08:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BF69 View Post
Condemnation of what & by whom? Why should anyone be 'fair' to a violent dictatorship? Why would any reasonable person even think it a reasonable question to ask?

Assad is hoping to provoke a deeper & more violent sectarian conflict than is currently underway in order to intensify support among non-Sunni minorities. So far it appears not to be working, though if this goes on long enough it probably will.



1) If the Assad regime was composed of 'reasonable people' none of this would have happened, so the premise is itself deeply flawed;

2) Widespread shelling of villages & suburbs preceded widespread ambushes on government forces & I'm betting there has been a lot more shelling than ambushing;

3) With the exception of the occasional diseased mind there is no possible way to justify the execution of women & children.

Of course, nothing in your reply had an awful lot to do with what I posted, but I've answered you anyway.

Assad is going down. Maybe not this week, this month or perhaps even this year, but his regime is critically wounded.
I don't think this is any worse then the rest of the dictators in the region.

But the question is what happens after he leaves.

Of course the guys going to rot in hell, but Saddam was a nut who gassed his own people, and the country went to hell after he was ousted. And that includes the 150k US/British forces that were holding the mess together long enough for Iraq to form it's own security force.

So who steps into the vacume once Assad is flown the coop to Iran? Hezbollah? A Saudi backed group?

I'm not saying he shouldn't go, but should the US again send troops to keep the peace? Short of the Russians and Chinese (Who support Assad), no one else in the world can put 100k elite troops into that country to keep the peace until it's rebuilt. Which means you roll the dice to see if you get something better or worse. And trust me there is worse then Assad out there.
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  #64  
Old 11 Jun 12, 13:10
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Syrian Civil War

Fighters of the Free Syrian Army on the Syrian border to Turky.
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  #65  
Old 11 Jun 12, 16:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BF69 View Post
Condemnation of what & by whom? Why should anyone be 'fair' to a violent dictatorship? Why would any reasonable person even think it a reasonable question to ask?

Assad is hoping to provoke a deeper & more violent sectarian conflict than is currently underway in order to intensify support among non-Sunni minorities. So far it appears not to be working, though if this goes on long enough it probably will.
As I mentioned, in the interest of "fairness", any reasonable person should condemn violence done by either parties, irregardless of which side is doing it. That's only "reasonable", isn't it?


Quote:
1) If the Assad regime was composed of 'reasonable people' none of this would have happened, so the premise is itself deeply flawed;
Sorry, that's sort of irrelevant. Even assuming the premise might be "deeply flawed", the question remains valid.


Quote:
2) Widespread shelling of villages & suburbs preceded widespread ambushes on government forces & I'm betting there has been a lot more shelling than ambushing;
I'm not a betting man but you could well be right. Or not. After all, isn't it more reasonable to "bet" that the shelling followed ambushes on government forces when the ambushers then will hide among civilians? I guess we just won't know.


Quote:
3) With the exception of the occasional diseased mind there is no possible way to justify the execution of women & children.
In that context, there is no way to also justify the execution of ANY human being, be they man, woman or child. Why limit the outrage to the execution of women and children only?


Quote:
Of course, nothing in your reply had an awful lot to do with what I posted, but I've answered you anyway.
There is, but thank you for your answer even if you didn't understand it that way anyway.


Quote:
Assad is going down. Maybe not this week, this month or perhaps even this year, but his regime is critically wounded.
His regime is definitely wounded. Given the same scenario, I wonder if the other governments in that region wouldn't respond the same way, though.
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  #66  
Old 11 Jun 12, 16:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niikeb View Post
I don't think this is any worse then the rest of the dictators in the region.
Agree. This is a point many can't (or won't) see.


Quote:
But the question is what happens after he leaves.
Valid question, but something too few people seem to ask.


Quote:
Of course the guys going to rot in hell, but Saddam was a nut who gassed his own people, and the country went to hell after he was ousted. And that includes the 150k US/British forces that were holding the mess together long enough for Iraq to form it's own security force.
When the country went to hell after he was ousted, what do you think that says about the country with regards to how to keep it in order?


Quote:
So who steps into the vacume once Assad is flown the coop to Iran? Hezbollah? A Saudi backed group?
Good questions.


Quote:
I'm not saying he shouldn't go, but should the US again send troops to keep the peace? Short of the Russians and Chinese (Who support Assad), no one else in the world can put 100k elite troops into that country to keep the peace until it's rebuilt. Which means you roll the dice to see if you get something better or worse. And trust me there is worse then Assad out there.
Yep, good point, but also more to the point, isn't Egypt and Libya lesson enough for everyone? Counting only the recent ones, do we need a 3rd?
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  #67  
Old 13 Jun 12, 13:05
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Chernobyl discussion moved.

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=124027

Syria, thank you.
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  #68  
Old 13 Jun 12, 13:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
Yep, good point, but also more to the point, isn't Egypt and Libya lesson enough for everyone? Counting only the recent ones, do we need a 3rd?
Tunisia actually went pretty well...

But Tunisia was lucky to be more European and Less Arab than most nations in the region.

Syria could turn out well, and if it turns out well, that stabalizes Lebanon which secures Israel.

But it's a very risky roll of the dice that will cost lives.

Also Egypt still has a chance to work. The Generals need the Christians and Bedouins so if the generals win the election, there may be hope yet.
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  #69  
Old 13 Jun 12, 17:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niikeb View Post
Tunisia actually went pretty well...

But Tunisia was lucky to be more European and Less Arab than most nations in the region.

Syria could turn out well, and if it turns out well, that stabalizes Lebanon which secures Israel.
Could. Could not. Which do you think is more probable?


Quote:
But it's a very risky roll of the dice that will cost lives.
Definitely.


Quote:
Also Egypt still has a chance to work. The Generals need the Christians and Bedouins so if the generals win the election, there may be hope yet.
The trick is not to fall into another abusive dictatorship.
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  #70  
Old 26 Jun 12, 10:29
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http://english.alarabiya.net/article...26/222770.html

Rebel forces and Syrian army units were locked in fierce clashes around elite Republican Guard posts in the suburbs of Damascus on Tuesday, a monitoring group said.

“Violent clashes are taking place around positions of the Republican Guard in Qadsaya and al-Hama,” eight kilometers (five miles) from central Damascus, Syrian Observatory for Human Rights head Rami Abdul Rahman told AFP.

“This is the first time that the regime uses artillery in fighting so close to the capital,” he said. “This development is important because it’s the heaviest fighting in the area and close to the heart of the capital.”

“These suburbs are home to barracks of troops which are very important for the regime like the Republican Guard. This is also where families of (army) officers live,” he said.

TO ADMINS.
Could we have a sticky thread about Syria Civil War
to post there ongoing news about situation in Syria;
instead of opening new and new threads for each minor event ?

The same way we have it for Libya.
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Old 26 Jun 12, 15:11
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Syria
hands off syria!!!
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  #72  
Old 26 Jun 12, 15:47
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Originally Posted by niikeb View Post
I don't think this is any worse then the rest of the dictators in the region.
And the point is dictators should be condemned and not supported. It is strange how democracy suddenly becomes less than important when it suits.
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Old 26 Jun 12, 16:52
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Originally Posted by RS116 View Post
... TO ADMINS.
Could we have a sticky thread about Syria Civil War
to post there ongoing news about situation in Syria;
instead of opening new and new threads for each minor event ?

The same way we have it for Libya.
May as well. This could take awhile.
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  #74  
Old 26 Jun 12, 18:05
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Thank You !!!
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Old 26 Jun 12, 19:34
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NATO chief condemns Syria over jet downing

The head of the NATO military alliance has described the downing of a Turkish fighter jet by Syrian government forces unacceptable.

The condemnation came shortly after Turkey briefed NATO's North Atlantic Council in discussions on Tuesday held under Article 4 of NATO's founding treaty, which allows a NATO member to request consultations if its security has been threatened.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...535375421.html



Anders Fogh Rasmussen, NATO's secretary-general, said the alliance condemned it "in the strongest terms", and expressed solidarity with Turkey, but made no mention of retaliatory action.

For his part, Turkey's prime minister, responding to the incident in a speech to the ruling AK party's parliamentary group, said the Turkish military will respond to any future violation of its border by the Syrian military.

"The rules of engagement of the Turkish Armed Forces have changed," Recep Tayyip Erdogan said.

"Any military element that approaches the Turkish border from Syria by posing a security risk and danger will be regarded as a threat and treated as a military target."
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