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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Military/History Related Hobbies > Orders of Battle

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Orders of Battle Orders-of-battle, TO&E's, and related information on who fought where and what they brought to the battle.

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  #61  
Old 06 Mar 17, 19:43
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There is a difference between a number of seats and the number of dismounts. When they first started buying Bradleys, they took out one of the dismounts to give the guys more room. Still how often are squads up to strength?

Back before the Bradley entered service there was a movement to have the "dismounts" use firing ports and only get out on rare occasions. The Red Army had a similar tactic. It has been referred to since as "Death before Dismount!". I can't recall if the CO and/or the Platoon Sergeant also dismount. Someone needs to be in a Bradley to keep Company advised.

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  #62  
Old 06 Mar 17, 20:02
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Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
"Death before Dismount!"
Ha! I suspect that was borrowed from can scouts.
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  #63  
Old 07 Mar 17, 20:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
Back before the Bradley entered service there was a movement to have the "dismounts" use firing ports and only get out on rare occasions. The Red Army had a similar tactic. It has been referred to since as "Death before Dismount!". ...
I recall reading multiple descriptions of Russian conscripts trying to fight Chechnian (?) soldiers from inside their vehicles in urban settings. It did not seem to go well for the Russians. To lazy to check this & have no idea how accurate those magazine articles might have been. When training with USMC amtracs back in the 1980s the SOP was to automatically deploy a four man team as security for short stops of 1 to 5 minutes. For longer stops the entire passenger load deployed from the vehicle.
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  #64  
Old 02 Aug 17, 18:03
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Still we need to look at making the 7th I.D. an actual division and not just a HQs. One Idea I have is to make a light mechanized division with M8s and tracked Strykers.
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  #65  
Old 02 Aug 17, 19:12
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Still we need to look at making the 7th I.D. an actual division and not just a HQs. One Idea I have is to make a light mechanized division with M8s and tracked Strykers.
All divisions are "just a HQs". That was the whole point of the changes made ~2005-2007 under "modularity". The only thing that ties BCTs to divisions is the patch- they are separately deployable units and can deploy under any division headquarters.

How much "weight" will M8s and tracked Strykers save over M1s and Bradleys? How much strategic lift will be required to deploy this division (I assume that it would really be new separate BCTs)? How much will all of this new equipment (and personnel, I guess?) cost?

The answers to those questions will tell you why it hasn't been done.
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  #66  
Old 06 Aug 17, 02:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 82redleg View Post
All divisions are "just a HQs". That was the whole point of the changes made ~2005-2007 under "modularity". The only thing that ties BCTs to divisions is the patch- they are separately deployable units and can deploy under any division headquarters.

How much "weight" will M8s and tracked Strykers save over M1s and Bradleys? How much strategic lift will be required to deploy this division (I assume that it would really be new separate BCTs)? How much will all of this new equipment (and personnel, I guess?) cost?

The answers to those questions will tell you why it hasn't been done.
82 is right here. If it helps it might be easier to think of the present Division as a Corps and the BCTs as Divisions. Since in function that is what has happened. The BCTs are the primary combat units that the divisions used to be and the Divisions are made up of mix and match of different BCTs like the corps were made of different Divisions depending on their need.
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