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  #61  
Old 26 Feb 12, 16:02
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Originally Posted by Martok View Post
I thought Cain caved too quickly, but he did defend himself.
He blamed the women...like you just did...and the media.


He, of course, had nothing to do with it.
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  #62  
Old 26 Feb 12, 16:35
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Originally Posted by Martok View Post

the only liberal democracy in the Middle East and the only country in that region where any of us could bear to live.[/I]

They sit in world forums, weirdly denouncing Israel as the worst violator of human rights, the greatest threat to world peace. They demand that Israel cease its checkpoints and walls and its other attempts to save Jewish lives.
Sorry, I wouldn't want to live in any ME country. Israel may be a liberal democracy, if you're a Israeli citizen, but what about all the others who live within its borders and can't become citizens?
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  #63  
Old 26 Feb 12, 16:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johns624 View Post
Sorry, I wouldn't want to live in any ME country. Israel may be a liberal democracy, if you're a Israeli citizen, but what about all the others who live within its borders and can't become citizens?
They're in the same position as Third Worlders all over the world, including Europe and America.
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  #64  
Old 26 Feb 12, 16:47
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Originally Posted by johns624 View Post
...but what about all the others who live within its borders and can't become citizens?
Israel has immigration policies and laws in effect.

http://www.bpb.de/themen/CDU1M9,0,Im...on_policy.html
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  #65  
Old 26 Feb 12, 17:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martok View Post
Israel has immigration policies and laws in effect.

http://www.bpb.de/themen/CDU1M9,0,Im...on_policy.html
I'm not talking about Jews wanting to emigrate and you know it.
What people need to understand is that the Israel of today isn't the Israel of 40 years ago. The breakup of the USSR brought a huge influx of Russians there and they are very powerful. One million Russians came to Israel between 1990-2004, out of a population of 7 million.
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  #66  
Old 26 Feb 12, 17:48
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I am a liberal and I don't apologize for the bad actions of Muslims. The wrongdoings of any religion are not to be condoned. I am not anti-Israel. I respect them as would any others.
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  #67  
Old 26 Feb 12, 17:48
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Originally Posted by Karri View Post
Yes, and I am trying to scale down doing that. But it's a general problem in internet: hardly anyone ever admits to being wrong, and when presented with evidence you can just ignore it completely and move to another thread, answer selectively, or just insult. Or derail the thread.

It could be a nice discussion forum, but it isn't at the moment. Been there, done that, trying to change :/
It's hard to admit being wrong...

lol I remember way back when I started my Marijuana legalization thread I fought for days on why it should remain illegal. But with so much evidence to the contrary, I just had to flat out say, "Dang. You're right, and I'm an idiot."

But it's tough. But regarding religion (an incredibly personal topic), it's not likely to happen on either side of the spectrum.
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  #68  
Old 26 Feb 12, 17:48
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Originally Posted by Douglas MacArth View Post
I am a liberal and I don't apologize for the bad actions of religions. The wrongdoings of any religion are not to be condoned. I am not anti-Israel. I respect them as would any others.
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  #69  
Old 26 Feb 12, 17:56
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So where are we on the original topic?
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  #70  
Old 26 Feb 12, 18:02
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Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
So where are we on the original topic?
What motivates non-Muslim Islamic apologists?

I gave my answer in post...6
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  #71  
Old 26 Feb 12, 18:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellington95 View Post
What motivates non-Muslim Islamic apologists?

I gave my answer in post...6
I asked "where are WE"? I know where you are. However, the discussion is now divided between Muslims and religion, rather than "non-MUslim apologists".

Comprende?
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  #72  
Old 26 Feb 12, 18:09
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I'm probably seen as a Liberal by many here, but I do think that Islam has become to pampered/defended in our culture. I mean you dare not draw or portray Muhammad, but Jesus can be and is frequently lampooned in our culture. It would be nice to see Muhammad lampooned for a change.
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  #73  
Old 26 Feb 12, 18:22
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Originally Posted by Douglas MacArth View Post
I am a liberal and I don't apologize for the bad actions of Muslims. The wrongdoings of any religion are not to be condoned. I am not anti-Israel. I respect them as would any others.
I don't think anyone would go so far to say that all Liberals defend Islam, or that all Conservatives hate Islam. I'm a Conservative, I have Muslim friends; they're good guys. I don't believe that there's anything inherently wrong about Islam, not in particular at least. It's no different than Christianity or Judaism. Personally I think organized religion in general is bad, but that has nothing to do with Islam in particular. The main difference I see between Christianity, Judaism and Islam is Christians and Jews ignore the violent parts of their religious texts and have formed moral and ethical codes from the good parts. Those codes, among other things, form the basis of all morality and ethics in Western Civilization, even for irreligious people.

In Islam however, far too many Muslims embrace the bad and ignore the good. They interpret whatever bits of the Koran they want to in whatever way fits their agenda. What's worse, is that the majority of Muslims, who don't necessarily believe in this sort of radicalism, are silent. They do little to denounce it and seem quite content with just sitting around and letting it happen. There is a very small vocal minority of Muslims, most of which live in the West, that do denounce it, but it's not enough. Even then, far too many Muslims who live in the West are radicals. This is particularly true in Britain and other European countries.

So coming back to Liberals, even though not all of them defend Islam, many do. And it's certainly not a matter of defending religious freedom or being accepting of all religions, because the Liberals that defend Islam are the most intolerant and racism scum that have ever walked on the planet. They claim to be for rights and freedoms, yet they try to erase all traces of Christianity from society while accusing Conservatives of being intolerant of Muslims. Conservatives invented religious freedom, f, we invented freedom period. Freedom did not exist in Western Society until we decided that all men should be free from tyranny and have individual rights.
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  #74  
Old 26 Feb 12, 18:24
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Originally Posted by Jonathanrex1 View Post
I'm probably seen as a Liberal by many here, but I do think that Islam has become to pampered/defended in our culture. I mean you dare not draw or portray Muhammad, but Jesus can be and is frequently lampooned in our culture. It would be nice to see Muhammad lampooned for a change.
It is, the Danes tried it and Muslims freaked out. Meanwhile Family Guy is poking fun of Christianity and me and my religious friends can watch it together and laugh.
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  #75  
Old 26 Feb 12, 18:30
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Originally Posted by Destroyer25 View Post
It is, the Danes tried it and Muslims freaked out. Meanwhile Family Guy is poking fun of Christianity and me and my religious friends can watch it together and laugh.
The Danish cartoons were that offensive, in my opinion, as what as been said about Christians here in the Western world.



The web-comic Jesus and Mo and a few South Park episodes are the only examples I can recall that have actually lampooned Islam in a critical way.
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