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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > World War II

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World War II Discuss WW2. .

View Poll Results: Was the German Army (Heer) really so superior in WW2?
Absolutely no question. They were easily the best for pretty much the entire war 1 1.01%
The Heer possessed an innate superiority but was overwhelmed by sheer numbers and degraded by attrition 16 16.16%
Clearly more than a match for any opponent in the first half of the war at least; and even after that still often gave better than they got 35 35.35%
Easily the best during the early 'Blitzkrieg' campaigns and remained at least competitive thereafter 30 30.30%
The Heer enjoyed something of an edge in the early campaigns but their opponents caught up quickly 17 17.17%
As per option 5 but some of their opponents actually bettered them on at least one level 13 13.13%
German strategic skills were never anything special; and their tactical & operation skills were only slightly better in the early campaigns 11 11.11%
As per option 7 but Allied armies had clearly at least equally them tactically and bested them on other levels from 42/43 onwards 7 7.07%
They only won the early campaigns through a combination of luck, and the incompetence & lack of preparedness of their opponents. They were never anything special 7 7.07%
The Germans were never much good. It's all propaganda 2 2.02%
Other (please state and explain) 5 5.05%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 04 Feb 12, 19:27
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Quote:
USA did not occupy Europe in the manner that the USSR did. The W. Allies liberated, the USSR conquered. France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, and Italy all got independence after being liberated. Eastern Europe did not.
You really need to read something about the real history.
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  #62  
Old 04 Feb 12, 19:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
*gentle nudge* Stay on topic gentlemen.
Sorry. The usual suspects are here again with their usual tripe.

Acknowledged.
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  #63  
Old 04 Feb 12, 21:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
USA taken half of the Europe to be safe from USSR.
That's silly we had long range bombers and the atomic age had arrived. We were safe
just kidding Come on guys play nice
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  #64  
Old 04 Feb 12, 21:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
Maybe,those who are claiming that the Heer was better,could also explain why it was defeated ?
I did not say that the Heer were better but one of the things that defeated the Germans was not their poor ability and know how in fighting but the lack of the materials ( including food) to carry out the opposite. (Evidence of what the bombing of industry etc: at home was doing) I included food because it was so evident with prisoners they were hungry.As were the civilians at home, they were nearer starving. Wh en I first saw this thread I thought that it could be a good new slant but the danger is some of the usual bunch would set about taking it down the same old roads and ruin it,unfortunately there are traces of it happening already. lcm1
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  #65  
Old 04 Feb 12, 22:25
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So when an allied force (Navy & airforce) destroy a nations transport infrastructure and stop it importing food it somehow is an 'underhand' way of winning?
Germany had a fully intergrated Army (that is an army, navy and airforce) and it failed first on sea and then in the air.
Lastly the ground element was destroyed and we keep hearing excuses, (mostly of the 'it was not a fair fight/we wuz outnumbered/I coulda been a contender' type) trying to mitigate the scale of the defeat.
WW1 defeat was a stab in the back and WW2 was lost because it was not a fair fight.
Any excuse will do rather than admit the truth...............
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  #66  
Old 04 Feb 12, 23:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
Kiev Sept 1941.
Would the 3rd Battle of Kharkov (Feb-March '43) not qualify?

If not, what about the 2nd Battle of Kharkov (May '42)?

Edit: OK Gerry, saw your answer on a following page.
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Last edited by panther3485; 04 Feb 12 at 23:32..
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  #67  
Old 04 Feb 12, 23:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acheron View Post
I would say the second battle of Kahrkov, May 1942, after which the Wehrmacht eized the initiative again for the rest of the year until Stalingrad.
I was going to suggest maybe even the 3rd Battle of Kharkov but the 2nd is probably more important.
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  #68  
Old 05 Feb 12, 00:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panther3485 View Post
I was going to suggest maybe even the 3rd Battle of Kharkov but the 2nd is probably more important.
If we're talking about a single battle that was a decisive German victory I'd like to point out the Battle of Narva.
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  #69  
Old 05 Feb 12, 01:48
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Why are we still talking about the lesser evil?



Hot damn, why can't I get an avatar that looks like that?
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  #70  
Old 05 Feb 12, 01:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panther3485 View Post
I was going to suggest maybe even the 3rd Battle of Kharkov but the 2nd is probably more important.
When I asked about the last "major" battle the Heer won, I was anticipating that the major point would be the number of forces engaged.

Certainly the "importance" of the battle is crucial to the value of the victory. But that seems like an even more difficult definition than "major"

Interesting responses to this particular point folks
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  #71  
Old 05 Feb 12, 02:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcm1 View Post
I did not say that the Heer were better but one of the things that defeated the Germans was not their poor ability and know how in fighting but the lack of the materials ( including food) to carry out the opposite. (Evidence of what the bombing of industry etc: at home was doing) I included food because it was so evident with prisoners they were hungry.As were the civilians at home, they were nearer starving. Wh en I first saw this thread I thought that it could be a good new slant but the danger is some of the usual bunch would set about taking it down the same old roads and ruin it,unfortunately there are traces of it happening already. lcm1

You better watch out LCM1....... Soon our armchair experts who were not there at the pointy end of it might start calling you a fanboi !!!

Cheers,
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  #72  
Old 05 Feb 12, 02:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
Surely in some people's wet dreams they had to get all the possible advantages, but surprisingly enough, they didn't get them. What a terrible injustice for guys wearing such cool uniforms, killing inferior peoples with such efficience and staying loyal to their maniacal government to the bitter end!

You mean like Khaddaffi's Libyans.... or Assad's Syrians?
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  #73  
Old 05 Feb 12, 02:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destroyer25 View Post
If we're talking about a single battle that was a decisive German victory I'd like to point out the Battle of Narva.
IIRC yes, a German victory (a defensive one), and I'm wondering how this suggestion will go down? We'll see.

I was thinking in terms of offensive victories but there ya go.
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  #74  
Old 05 Feb 12, 03:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkiller View Post
When I asked about the last "major" battle the Heer won, I was anticipating that the major point would be the number of forces engaged.

Certainly the "importance" of the battle is crucial to the value of the victory. But that seems like an even more difficult definition than "major"

Interesting responses to this particular point folks
Opening statement from the wiki article (my bold for emphasis):

"The Third Battle of Kharkov was a series of offensive operations on the Eastern Front of World War II, undertaken by the German Army Group South against the Red Army, around the city of Kharkov, between 19 February and 15 March 1943. Known to the Germans as the Donets Campaign, and to the Soviets as the Donbas and Kharkov operations, the German counterstrike led to the destruction of approximately 52 Soviet divisions and the recapture of the cities of Kharkov and Belgorod."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Battle_of_Kharkov

Don't know about you, but to me that seems pretty significant both in terms of the size of forces involved and the level of importance.
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Last edited by panther3485; 05 Feb 12 at 03:09..
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  #75  
Old 05 Feb 12, 03:16
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Thumbs up

I'm no fan of the nazi fanboys, they're all a bit creepy for my liking. But to belittle the German as a fighting man in a serious discussion, takes away from the sacrifices the likes of lcm1 and his mates made, to rid the world of that perticular cancer....

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