Another Fox lie

[callback]

Originally Posted by ShAA

Look, if some smug, self-righteous prick wasted no word to bash you, your policies, your way of life, your history every day of his life, if he daily reminded you that your dad killed neighbour's cow and you stole your neighbour's apples when you were five and for this reason adds "you thief" in every address to you, maybe you would try to find out whether his squeaky clean image to truly allows him to indulge in such unrestrained a**hollery.

Surprise, surprise, the guy's pants appear to be dirty too and his protesters get pepper sprayed and clubbed, unlike in Russia. So while his criticism might be valid in many cases, he'd better change his tone in order not to look like a total clown.

Where human rights are concerned the US has a much better record than the Russia of Putin. He is far from a choirboy.

[MonsterZero]

Originally Posted by Erkki

Do you have a link or a reference of some sort? It don´t have to be exact, just which paper or pappers and time period.

I wish I could have that magazine because I wanted to tell you the name of the militant leader that was taken POW with his comrades. It was in September 2010-I was over in Poland looking at some magazines.

[ShAA]

Originally Posted by RS116

So it is his lie, not the Fox Lie.

As long as they use this information, they are responsible for it. Imagine coming to a shop where you bought a faulty item produced by some big brand, and the shopkeepers would tell you they are not going to change it cause it's that worker in China who produced it is to blame - go find him yourself and we'll keep on selling his stuff as we're not responsible for anything.

You don't have to do it.
There are plenty of Russian authors, politologysts etc,
who are using information from the most marginal,
leftists anti- American sources as a reliable American
analysis/information.

Beside them and their rather marginal audience there are numerous major information services which bring firsthand news from the US. However, anything written about Russia in Western sources always comes from some Lipman or Albats or Trenin, who always play the tune ordered by their main benefactors - US "pro-democracy" NGOs. In their reports and laughably negligible part of Russia's opposition like Kasparov is presented as a great movement for democracy and their words make up for like 90% of all "Russian" interviews in all Western sources. Seriously, what objectivity can you speak about? The Western media behaves exactly like its Soviet counterparts 20 years ago - interviewing onnly an exclusively their own guys, presenting only one viewpoint and using negatively charged phrases and "memes" like putting "mafia KGB colonel Putin" in almost every article about Russia. This is clearly meant to stimulate a negative emotional response without any attempt at presenting a balanced and thought-out view on the Russian issues.

Again, it is not a lie.
It is Clod War rhetoric.
See the difference.

As this bit of Cold War propaganda is a lie, I'll allow myself to call a spade a spade. A propaganda lie is no better than any other lie and shouldn't be called in a much nicer way.

By the way, do you think this style is much better ?

Также Путин напомнил всем зрителям о том, что американский сенатор Маккейн служил во Вьетнаме, где, попав в плен, просидел долгое время в яме для узников: «Видимо, Маккейну до сих пор мало крови, ему необходимы кровавые сцены, такие, какие весь мир видел при убийстве Каддафи, я думаю, что у него попросту поехала крыша, когда он сидел во вьетнамской яме».

It is not "much better", but I can't see how this can be compared to presenting Stalin as a "Russian leader who killed 60 million people" while speaking of Russia's current human rights record. Putin shouldn't have said it or he had to put it in a more acceptable way. He simply got trolled by McCain, who, in my opinion, has really got a few screws loose.

[ShAA]

Originally Posted by callback

Where human rights are concerned the US has a much better record than the Russia of Putin. He is far from a choirboy.

So what? Does it entitle the US to act as an obnoxious t**t, self-righteously lecturing Russia off a high horse?

[Emtos]

So it is his lie, not the Fox Lie.

Repeat a lie it's like lie by yourself.

You don't have to do it.
There are plenty of Russian authors, politologysts etc,
who are using information from the most marginal,
leftists anti- American sources as a reliable American
analysis/information.

Can you be more precise please ?
I don't speak about some unknown authors but people who are on the official channels.

Again, it is not a lie.
It is Clod War rhetoric.
See the difference.
By the way, do you think this style is much better ?

Также Путин напомнил всем зрителям о том, что американский сенатор Маккейн служил во Вьетнаме, где, попав в плен, просидел долгое время в яме для узников: «Видимо, Маккейну до сих пор мало крови, ему необходимы кровавые сцены, такие, какие весь мир видел при убийстве Каддафи, я думаю, что у него попросту поехала крыша, когда он сидел во вьетнамской яме».

A lie in a Cold War rhhetoric. On one of the biggest of American news channel. Stalin on the political forums already posted another example of Fox hypocrisy, with riots in Greece used to show the manifestations in Russia.

For Putin's comment on McCain you forgot how much things McCain had said about Putin and Russia. Just a few examples :

http://inotv.rt.com/2011-10-14/Makke...iyu-za-druzhbu

http://www.nakanune.ru/news/2011/10/21/22250324/

http://inotv.rt.com/2011-12-16/Makke...ibila-Vlada-iz

http://lenta.ru/news/2011/02/05/slip/

There were some more with McCain saying that the missile shield is made against USSR. In the light of this the comment made by Putin is 100% true. It's really sad that Vietnamese didn't killed this idiot when they had the possibility.

[RS116]

Originally Posted by Emtos

Repeat a lie it's like lie by yourself.

Consciously Repeat a lie it's like lie by yourself.
Each of us at least couple of times in our life
repeated somebodies lies ( including mass media lies)
without knowing about it.
Moreover FOX even did not say directly,
that losses were 60,000,00.
They stated something softer like
Joseph Stalin is blamed for up to sixty million deaths.,
which is correct.
He was blamed.
Were these blames correct, or not is the different issue.
But he was blamed.
And not in America, in Russia.

Originally Posted by Emtos

Can you be more precise please ?
I don't speak about some unknown authors but people who are on the official channels.

It is the point were we ( you and shaa ) and me don't have common
ground for discussion.
We have the same issue in a few different threads, including
"A different view of history" and some thread in Russia Forum.
You both want in the same time to be my opponents and judges
how relevant are the facts I am going to provide.
Which gives you a possibility to reject any fact I will present.
Such situation of course does not satisfy me.
So we got stuck here.
I many times proved here different
names of Russian politicians,
showmen, authors etc and each time it
was rejected, or on basics that
not all Russians watch TV, or because they
were named idiots, who does not deserve any attention,
or because it was claimed that they have rather marginal audience.
So whatever samples I am going to provide will not satisfy you,
IMO simply because you don't want to see it.

Originally Posted by Emtos

A lie in a Cold War rhhetoric.

The lie is lie, the rhetoric is rhetoric.
If we are going to consider all Cold War rhetoric a lie,
will have to name everything is said on Russian TV by
Leontiev,
Maxim Shevchanko,
Prokhanov,
sometimes Pushkov and 3-4 other "politologists"
a chronicle lie.

Originally Posted by Emtos

For Putin's comment on McCain you forgot how much things McCain had said about Putin and Russia. Just a few examples :

http://inotv.rt.com/2011-10-14/Makke...iyu-za-druzhbu

http://www.nakanune.ru/news/2011/10/21/22250324/

http://inotv.rt.com/2011-12-16/Makke...ibila-Vlada-iz

http://lenta.ru/news/2011/02/05/slip/

There were some more with McCain saying that the missile shield is made against USSR. In the light of this the comment made by Putin is 100% true. It's really sad that Vietnamese didn't killed this idiot when they had the possibility.

1.
People for hundred of years had developed diplomatic etiquette for
reasons.
The leader of the state has to use polite language
not the teenager street gang slang.
There are plenty of possibilities to express somebodies feelings
using internationally accepted language.
And if Putin consider himself above commonly accepted rules ,
just for sake to show how tough he is, and allowed himself use
street offense it is idiotic from his side.
Plain and simple.
Whatever McCain had said, he was not personally offensive.
So when Putin could not find anything better that insults,
it just put him below McCain.

2.
Could you please provide a link on original English text of McCain's speeches.
I swear, I won't ask for anything more.
So far you provided even not Russian translation ( which I still would not
rely on very much ) , you provided Russian comments of the small (4-5 words ) taken out of context pieces of his speeches.
So far I have an impression, that Russian media is trying to
make McCain a strawman on the Cold war.
Let alone the fact, that his real political
influence even among Republicans is near 0

[BELGRAVE]

"Let him who is without sin caste the first stone" John 8:7.

[Skoblin]

Originally Posted by RS116

я думаю, что у него попросту поехала крыша, когда он сидел во вьетнамской яме.

For what it's worth, I actually think this may be true about McCain. Certainly does explain some things about him...

[Half Pint John]

Originally Posted by skoblin

For what it's worth, I actually think this may be true about McCain. Certainly does explain some things about him...

WEll......then translated it Sko. after all this is still and English language site.

[Skoblin]

Originally Posted by Half Pint John

WEll......then translated it Sko. after all this is still and English language site.

Er..yes..sorry about that, John. Putin, speaking about McCain, is stating that he suspects McCain may have gotten a screw loose while he was holed up in the Hanoi Hilton.

[Stryker 19K30]

Originally Posted by Half Pint John

WEll......then translated it Sko. after all this is still and English language site.

Just something nobody that has not professionally examined him is qualified to speak on, regardless of the topic or situation being discussed.

'He's gone crazy since he was imprisoned in a hole in Vietnam.'

[Half Pint John]

Thanks guys!

I can easily imagine that his imprisonment made may changes in him. How he was, before we cannot tell. He seems to be changing with each year.

[ShAA]

Originally Posted by RS116

I many times proved here different
names of Russian politicians,
showmen, authors etc and each time it
was rejected, or on basics that
not all Russians watch TV, or because they
were named idiots, who does not deserve any attention,
or because it was claimed that they have rather marginal audience.
So whatever samples I am going to provide will not satisfy you,
IMO simply because you don't want to see it.

And I've already answered you quite clearly that I do not take into consideration fringe wackos which do not represent anyone. I'm not bringing up whatever www.ihr.org, various American Nazi groups or David Duke say about Russia. Just like you shouldn't bring up political freaks who have no influence either on Russian politics or Russian media. And you also fail to see my point: while the Russians have ample opportunities to see what the life in America is like via hundreds of movies, sitcoms, documentaries, translated TV programs, etc. the Americans only see one image of Russia, presented to them by their media: mandatory babushkas, homeless bums on the streets, garbage bins, soldiers marching - all the staple cliches of the Cold War.

[Skoblin]

Originally Posted by ShAA

the Americans only see one image of Russia, presented to them by their media: mandatory babushkas, homeless bums on the streets, garbage bins, soldiers marching - all the staple cliches of the Cold War.

You forgot to mention seductive spies...

[ShAA]

Originally Posted by skoblin

You forgot to mention seductive spies...

Oh yes, but in the States only