HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Weapons of War

Notices and Announcements

Weapons of War The machinery of warfare. .

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27 Oct 11, 12:52
Selous's Avatar
Selous Selous is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
England
Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Mercia
Posts: 8,823
Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900]
Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900]
Strategic Weapons: Types and Uses

As Mr Bock suggested, here is a thread for the discussion of weapons considered 'strategic' - although one could argue most weapons have strategic effect, there is a certain list of types of weapons which are so powerful in their capacity for destruction that they are considered existing only at the strategic level - WMD or NBC as the case often is. There have been efforts of course to develop a framework and doctrine of -even nuclear- response of these weapons at the tactical level (such as the Davy Crockett? IIRC)
And of course, there are those weapons yet to be made or leave the drawing board, such as the kinetic weapons we were discussing in the thread on the largest US nuclear weapon being dismantled. The 'Rods from God' /Project Thor are perhaps the only examples I can think of.
We could also perhaps use this thread for discussions of WMD strategic theory; Khan etc.
__________________
------
'I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.' - Thomas Jefferson

If you have questions about the forum please check the FAQ/Rules
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 28 Oct 11, 02:10
The Exorcist's Avatar
The Exorcist The Exorcist is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 27,847
The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
One early candidate was the Rail-Road gun.
Destructive power and the high speed with which it could be shifted from one end of the front to the other was the reason why.
__________________
RELAX
We are all crazy here
It's not a Competition.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 28 Oct 11, 13:38
Frtigern's Avatar
Frtigern Frtigern is offline
Major General
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Stateside
Posts: 2,957
Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300]
The F-22. How many enemy fourth generation fighters could the F-22 sneak up on and destroy?

Is the F-22 and the assets which sustain it globally a strategic weapon? If you were an air force commander commanding Iran's, North Korea's, or Pakistan's air force, how would you achieve air superiority over the F-22?

I don't know much about modern stealth fighter tactics or what all the F-22 is capable of would the F-22 even have to fire a shot? Will the F-22's work in tandem with older fighters and scout ahead? Or would they be used as escorts, simply materialism out of thin air right before an enemy fighter has even begun to climb?

A couple of flyby's at low altitude should scare the crap out other fighter pilots wanting to tango.

So while it may dominate at a tactical level, it can seriously alter the outcome of a war against an opponent relying on using aircraft to dominate a theater.
__________________
The Europa Barbarorum II team [M2TW] needs YOUR HELP NOW HERE!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 28 Oct 11, 15:11
Selous's Avatar
Selous Selous is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
England
Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Mercia
Posts: 8,823
Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900]
Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900] Selous has earned the respect of all [900]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frtigern
Is the F-22 and the assets which sustain it globally a strategic weapon? If you were an air force commander commanding Iran's, North Korea's, or Pakistan's air force, how would you achieve air superiority over the F-22?
A very good point, my undergrad diss was based on the same concept but applied to the Ironclad ships of the Royal Navy.

The same can probably also be said of Ex's railroad guns - the system supporting them criss-crossed all belligerents of the wars they were employed in.

But I must admit I did have in my mind Weapons of Mass Destruction when I made the thread; so good curve-ball points gentlemen
__________________
------
'I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.' - Thomas Jefferson

If you have questions about the forum please check the FAQ/Rules
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 28 Oct 11, 17:07
G David Bock's Avatar
G David Bock G David Bock is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Real Name: G David Bock
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bellingham, Washington
Posts: 15,428
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
With thanks to Frtigren and a link he provided on the other thread, here's an interesting place to start looking of ideas and information;
http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/index.html

One "glitch" I noticed after a quick scan is that there isn't a current list on this site for Russia. Likely the most important one to know about.

Last edited by G David Bock; 28 Oct 11 at 17:11..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 28 Oct 11, 20:52
Herman Hum's Avatar
Herman Hum Herman Hum is online now
Brigadier General
Canada
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,375
Herman Hum has a spectacular aura about [400]
Herman Hum has a spectacular aura about [400]
I remember reading in Bravo Two-Zero that the author thought of himself and his SAS team as Strategic Weapons because they were tasked to locate an oil pipeline between Iraq and Turkey. Had they destroyed the pipeline, it could have brought Turkey into the war (a strategic consequence). Hence, the reason why he considered themselves a strategic resource.
__________________
ScenShare Guidelines:

1) Enjoy creating it
2) Enjoy playing it
3) Enjoy sharing it
4) Enjoy helping others create them

The PlayersDB - The Harpoon Community's #1 Choice.

FAQ http://www.harplonkhq.com/Harpoon/Fr...dQuestions.htm
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 28 Oct 11, 23:44
kuma's Avatar
kuma kuma is offline
Lieutenant General
Philippines
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Manila
Posts: 3,166
kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100]
The multi-engined manned bomber used in massive formations in the conduct of the strategic bombing campaign vs. Nazi Germany in WW2..


The definition from the Encyclopaedia Britannica:
strategic weapons system, any weapons system designed to strike an enemy at the source of his military, economic, or political power. In practice, this means destroying a nation’s cities, factories, military bases, transportation and communications infrastructure, and seat of government. Strategic weapons systems use atomic or thermonuclear devices, because only these weapons have sufficient explosive power to destroy, with relative ease and quickness, the entire war-making capability of a large nation. The term strategic weapons system refers not merely to the explosive devices themselves but rather to the complex delivery systems that enable these warheads to reach their targets.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 29 Oct 11, 22:34
The Exorcist's Avatar
The Exorcist The Exorcist is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 27,847
The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Right, it does not have to be a weapon of mass destruction to be a Strategic Weapon.
We just got used to thinking that way.

Chemical weapons can't be strategic unless they are dropped on a city or other high-value target.
And as far as I know, that's never been done.
__________________
RELAX
We are all crazy here
It's not a Competition.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 30 Oct 11, 03:32
kuma's Avatar
kuma kuma is offline
Lieutenant General
Philippines
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Manila
Posts: 3,166
kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exorcist View Post
Right, it does not have to be a weapon of mass destruction to be a Strategic Weapon.
We just got used to thinking that way.

Chemical weapons can't be strategic unless they are dropped on a city or other high-value target.
And as far as I know, that's never been done.
The closest examples I can think of:
Didn't Saddam use chemical weapons against the Kurds? I don't know the delivery mechanism though.

The Japanese dropped bombs filled with fleas carrying the bubonic plague during their war with China.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 30 Oct 11, 21:43
llkinak's Avatar
llkinak llkinak is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Here, there.
Posts: 5,781
llkinak has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] llkinak has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
llkinak has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] llkinak has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] llkinak has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] llkinak has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] llkinak has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] llkinak has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] llkinak has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] llkinak has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] llkinak has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] llkinak has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] llkinak has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] llkinak has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Bronze weapons when they first were fielded.
Iron weapons when they were fielded against bronze.
Steel weapons when fielded against iron.
The horse being developed for cavalry.
Castles.
Gunpowder/High Explosives.
Professional or standing navies.
Heavy bombers.
Battleships followed by Aircraft Carriers.
M4 Sherman and T34 tanks.
The MBT concept and subsequent development.
Atomic Arms.
Nuclear subs.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 30 Oct 11, 22:20
kuma's Avatar
kuma kuma is offline
Lieutenant General
Philippines
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Manila
Posts: 3,166
kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100] kuma has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Not exactly weapons as such but the strategic impact of the telegraph and the railroads which the North had an overwhelming advantage in during the US Civil War.. demonstrated the advantages of a rudimentary C3 System.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 30 Oct 11, 22:48
Herman Hum's Avatar
Herman Hum Herman Hum is online now
Brigadier General
Canada
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,375
Herman Hum has a spectacular aura about [400]
Herman Hum has a spectacular aura about [400]
I agree with the Railroads. They offered strategic mobility.
__________________
ScenShare Guidelines:

1) Enjoy creating it
2) Enjoy playing it
3) Enjoy sharing it
4) Enjoy helping others create them

The PlayersDB - The Harpoon Community's #1 Choice.

FAQ http://www.harplonkhq.com/Harpoon/Fr...dQuestions.htm
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 31 Oct 11, 12:49
Frtigern's Avatar
Frtigern Frtigern is offline
Major General
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Stateside
Posts: 2,957
Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300] Frtigern is on a distinguished road [300]
The paved road. The ancient equivalent of a railroad. The importance of graded and paved roads meant that more men could move faster across territories and maintain an efficient supply and communication link. Carriage wheel grooves were the first "tracks". It was how Persia maintained its empire, then successors (of Alexander) after that and the Romans after that.
__________________
The Europa Barbarorum II team [M2TW] needs YOUR HELP NOW HERE!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03 Nov 11, 16:56
G David Bock's Avatar
G David Bock G David Bock is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Real Name: G David Bock
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bellingham, Washington
Posts: 15,428
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
I dropped a post here last nite, but it got made into a thread in the politics forum;
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=115871
part of that post;

Later in the article, QUOTE:
Most of the weapons transfers involved sales of Chinese anti-ship cruise missiles, including C-802 missiles that China promised the United States in 1997 would not be exported to Iran.
China also built an entire missile plant in Iran last year to produce the Nasr-1 anti-ship cruise missile.
“Because of the relatively short range of these missiles, China’s provision of them to Iran does not violate the Iran, North Korea and Syria Nonproliferation Act of 2006, which seeks to prevent the transfer of only those missiles that can carry a 500-kilogram warhead more than 300 kilometers,” the report says.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Obviously, these would be used to choke the Straits of Hormuz, imperiling Global petroleum supplies/shipments and, way this thread is going, would have to be thought of as a "strategic weapon" in terms of threat and consequence if used.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03 Nov 11, 19:26
GCoyote's Avatar
GCoyote GCoyote is offline
ACG Forums - canis administrationem
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Gary C
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Posts: 19,108
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Question

Question, how does this relate to the larger discussion of what constitutes a strategic weapon? China may in fact be applying 'a strategy' here but the weapons described are mundane enough and certainly not something that would significantly alter the balance of power in the region.
__________________
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

Questions about our site? See the FAQ.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 16:45.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.