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  #31  
Old 21 Nov 11, 20:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
"It's not a matter of "if", it's just a matter of when in the past, and when in the future we will get the cosmic slap down again."

Yep. I like the idea of capturing asteroids and using them for the materials for space colonies...

http://www.nss.org/settlement/Coloni...ace/index.html

Have to admit, capture, if not deflection, beats Impact any day.
Space colonies is the only way to capitalize on space tech, and boost the World's economy at the same time. Good website, thanks for the link.
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  #32  
Old 21 Nov 11, 21:08
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Some of the concepts come from a true visionary who died before his time...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dandridge_MacFarlan_Cole

A genius...
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  #33  
Old 21 Nov 11, 21:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate-Drakk View Post
Don't forget the 40 days and nights of rain following the ocean impact. Cubic miles of water/steam will be ejected into low Earth orbit. Then it will come back as rain, rain, rain. The environmental effects of flooding every river in the world simultaneously, for a month, would be devastating.

Conveniently for Mother Nature, we build all our major cities next to rivers, lakes, and the ocean where they are most vulnerable to such an event. Likewise, all the crops would fail so massive famine would follow in the wake of the initial impact disaster.

It's not a matter of "if", it's just a matter of when in the past, and when in the future we will get the cosmic slap down again.
Funny you should mention ....

If one goes to the older Mesopotamian (Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian) writings upon which the Genesis account of the Deluge is based, it appears to be a predictable event. Also one that "the gawds" either couldn't or did not want to prevent, since most of them seemed to go with the idea of using such to wipeout humankind. EA/Enki took exception to the injunction not to warn the humans, and advised Zirasuda (sp?)/Noah to build an Ark. Some researchers have claimed that the Deluge was a result of the Antarctic ice cap shifting off the pole and into the ocean, but I'm with those whom think this may have been an after effect of an impact event.

A more controversial variation would be that the impact event triggered a Mass Crustal Displacement (MCD) or Earth Crust Displacement (ECD) where the tectonic plates bump into each other in a vector that in effect roles the Earth's crust around the central mass of the planet (breaks the friction holding the crust to the viscous mantle) moving some portions of the crustal out of the polar region and others into it. Ice covering of the last Ice Age, when viewed on a global map shows coverage over Northern Europe and much of North America, but Eastern Asia/Siberia of same (current) lattitudes was non-polar, even temperate in climate. The implication was that the north rotational pole as in a location about the southern end of Hudson's Bay.

This suggests that 'something' got the crustal plates sliding in the southeastern direction to move the Hudson's Bay axial point to where it is today. And moved the Arctic ocean plate into the new location where it was over the north rotational axis. And of course would have bumped eastern Asia/Siberia into more northernly lattitudes.

Interestingly, there is a potential impact event, believed to have created what is known as the Carolina Bays, which had the near similar vector/direction of impact needed plus comes rather close to matching the timeframe for this "pole shift".

Like I said earlier, perhaps this concept/topic deserves a thread of it's own.
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  #34  
Old 21 Nov 11, 21:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
Some of the concepts come from a true visionary who died before his time...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dandridge_MacFarlan_Cole

A genius...
Ah, yes. Take this for example, from your link;
"He was known especially for promoting the idea of colonizing the asteroids, or "planetoids" as he argued they should more properly be called. The planetoids could be hollowed out, or actually inflated to create a bubbleworld with habitable space on the inside. The resulting space arks could orbit within the solar system, or be sent out on interstellar expeditions."

And now a test for "open minds", could this be an example of what he proposed? Perhaps a derelick example? (The link is to the first of six very long articles, but a skim through and study of the illustrations in all six will provide a gist of things);
http://www.enterprisemission.com/moon1.htm
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  #35  
Old 22 Nov 11, 09:59
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I have to look at this...

Jpl confirms some strange

Dam'n it you made me think...
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  #36  
Old 22 Nov 11, 21:52
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Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
Ah, yes. Take this for example, from your link;
"He was known especially for promoting the idea of colonizing the asteroids, or "planetoids" as he argued they should more properly be called. The planetoids could be hollowed out, or actually inflated to create a bubbleworld with habitable space on the inside. The resulting space arks could orbit within the solar system, or be sent out on interstellar expeditions."

...
Kim Stanley Robinson used that idea near the end of his Mars trilogy. In that context it makes perfect sense.
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Last edited by GCoyote; 23 Nov 11 at 18:27..
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  #37  
Old 23 Nov 11, 15:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
A more controversial variation would be that the impact event triggered a Mass Crustal Displacement (MCD) or Earth Crust Displacement (ECD) where the tectonic plates bump into each other in a vector that in effect roles the Earth's crust around the central mass of the planet (breaks the friction holding the crust to the viscous mantle) moving some portions of the crustal out of the polar region and others into it. Ice covering of the last Ice Age, when viewed on a global map shows coverage over Northern Europe and much of North America, but Eastern Asia/Siberia of same (current) lattitudes was non-polar, even temperate in climate. The implication was that the north rotational pole as in a location about the southern end of Hudson's Bay.

This suggests that 'something' got the crustal plates sliding in the southeastern direction to move the Hudson's Bay axial point to where it is today. And moved the Arctic ocean plate into the new location where it was over the north rotational axis. And of course would have bumped eastern Asia/Siberia into more northernly lattitudes.

Interestingly, there is a potential impact event, believed to have created what is known as the Carolina Bays, which had the near similar vector/direction of impact needed plus comes rather close to matching the timeframe for this "pole shift".

Like I said earlier, perhaps this concept/topic deserves a thread of it's own.
I have seen some evidence to support the "pole shift" theory but it's hard to reconcile. The amount of force and energy required to do that is enormous to the point that you might "break" the Earth itself if you tried it. Likewise, creating a natural event that could result in a pole shift is hard to contrive.

However, I have an open mind and a few odd theories of my own about how this might happen given a little "terraforming" by some little "g's".
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  #38  
Old 23 Nov 11, 20:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate-Drakk View Post
I have seen some evidence to support the "pole shift" theory but it's hard to reconcile. The amount of force and energy required to do that is enormous to the point that you might "break" the Earth itself if you tried it. Likewise, creating a natural event that could result in a pole shift is hard to contrive.

However, I have an open mind and a few odd theories of my own about how this might happen given a little "terraforming" by some little "g's".
There are two takes on "pole shift";
1) has the entire mass of the planet tilting and repositioning it's rotational axis. This one is the real energy intensive one that could break the planet up. There appears to be evidence that it has happened elsewhere in this Solar System as Venus looks to have done a 180 degree flip, it spins backwards; and Uranus points its south pole towards the Sun, axial tilt of @87 degrees.
2) the other one, which I was talking about, MCD/ECD leaves about 99+% mass of the planet as is, only the crust/"skin" slips around to new alignment. Much less energy needed, but still makes a mess of things here on the surface - earthquakes and volcanoes erupting, tsunamis that sweep across continents, etc.

Some starter references;
http://www.flem-ath.com/favourites/e...-displacement/
http://www.flem-ath.com/flemath/hapg...orrespondence/
http://www.flem-ath.com/
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  #39  
Old 24 Nov 11, 12:01
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The magnetic poles are continuously moving and frequently (geologically speaking) reverse polarity.

There is absolutely no geological or geophysical evidence of a physical polar reversal or the sort of crustal displacement depicted in 2012... At least not during the Phanerozoic (last 540 MY). That sort of stuff is 100% science fiction. Prior to the Phanerozoic, the geologic record is very sparse; but exhibits no clear evidence of that sort of thing either.. There's also no evidence of impacts large enough to alter the Earth's axis, rotation or orbit since the crust solidified.
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  #40  
Old 30 Nov 11, 21:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
The magnetic poles are continuously moving and frequently (geologically speaking) reverse polarity.

There is absolutely no geological or geophysical evidence of a physical polar reversal or the sort of crustal displacement depicted in 2012... At least not during the Phanerozoic (last 540 MY). That sort of stuff is 100% science fiction. Prior to the Phanerozoic, the geologic record is very sparse; but exhibits no clear evidence of that sort of thing either.. There's also no evidence of impacts large enough to alter the Earth's axis, rotation or orbit since the crust solidified.
Doc, this opening a can of worms I haven't much time to address right now, so a couple of links for background information for those interested.

This article, though somewhat "pro" does provide a fairly accurate discription of the Earth Crust Displacment theory;
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/si...sitchin_3g.htm

For balance, this is a reasonable "con" article, but it does stack the evidence deck a bit (dodges the harder to explain evidence);
http://www.skrause.org/writing/paper..._and_ecd.shtml

Some of that difficult evidence came "Earth in Upheaval" by Velikovsky;
http://members.tripod.com/~Glove_r/Velikovsky.html

Back later when I have more time.
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  #41  
Old 01 Dec 11, 00:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
The magnetic poles are continuously moving and frequently (geologically speaking) reverse polarity.
Not just moving, but actually reversing.

I anecdotally remember it being over a short time period - not millions or even hundreds of thousands of years but perhaps hundreds of years or less.

So how often do the poles reverse, and what are the consequences?


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  #42  
Old 01 Dec 11, 02:17
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal
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  #43  
Old 01 Dec 11, 06:18
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Originally Posted by philiplaos View Post
Not just moving, but actually reversing.

I anecdotally remember it being over a short time period - not millions or even hundreds of thousands of years but perhaps hundreds of years or less.

So how often do the poles reverse, and what are the consequences?


Philip
“The magnetic poles are continuously moving and frequently (geologically speaking) reverse polarity.”

The frequency is variable. There is no clear evidence of serious consequences. Although the last reversal was prior to compasses and electronics.

Last edited by The Doctor; 01 Dec 11 at 07:28..
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  #44  
Old 01 Dec 11, 06:34
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Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
Doc, this opening a can of worms I haven't much time to address right now, so a couple of links for background information for those interested.

This article, though somewhat "pro" does provide a fairly accurate discription of the Earth Crust Displacment theory;
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/si...sitchin_3g.htm

For balance, this is a reasonable "con" article, but it does stack the evidence deck a bit (dodges the harder to explain evidence);
http://www.skrause.org/writing/paper..._and_ecd.shtml

Some of that difficult evidence came "Earth in Upheaval" by Velikovsky;
http://members.tripod.com/~Glove_r/Velikovsky.html

Back later when I have more time.
Those links aren't to “articles.”. The first two are nonsensical blog posts and the third is a review of a book.

There is absolutely no geological evidence for Hapgood's theory and no evidence of physical polar reversals at least over the most recent 540 million years. And there's insufficient evidence over most of the previous 4 billion years to draw detailed conclusions.
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Old 01 Dec 11, 10:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
Doc, this opening a can of worms I haven't much time to address right now, so a couple of links for background information for those interested.

This article, though somewhat "pro" does provide a fairly accurate discription of the Earth Crust Displacment theory;
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/si...sitchin_3g.htm
According to Hapgood, crustal shift was made possible by a layer of liquid rock situated about 100 miles beneath the surface of the planet.
No such "layer of liquid rock" exists. Shear waves (S-waves) can't travel through fluid. A "layer of liquid rock situated about 100 miles beneath the surface of the planet" would be obvious. The only seismic evidence for a "layer of liquid rock" is the outer core at a depth of ~2,900 km (1,800 miles).



The crust overlies the mantle, which is solid. The crustal plates (the lithosphere) "drift" slowly over the asthenosphere.

While it is possible, maybe even likely, that there have been regional accelerations of tectonic activity, those accelerations would still be extremely slow by human standards.
In his best-selling book Earth in Upheaval, historian Immanuel Velikovsky gave an account of what might be expected when the Earth tilts on it's axis:
'Let us assume, as a working hypothesis, that under the impact of a force or the influence of an agent - and the Earth does not travel in an empty universe - the axis of the earth shifted or tilted. At that moment an earthquake would make the globe shudder. Air and water would continue to move through inertia; hurricanes would sweep the Earth, and the seas would rush over continents, carrying gravel and sand and marine animals, and casting them onto land. Heat would be developed, rocks would melt, volcanoes would erupt, lava would flow from fissures in the ruptured ground and cover vast areas. Mountains would spring up from the plains and would climb and travel upon the shoulders of other mountains, causing faults and rifts. Lakes would be tilted and emptied, rivers would change their beds; large land areas and all their inhabitants would slip under the sea. Forests would burn, and the hurricanes and wild seas would wrest them from the ground on which they grew and pile them, branch and root, in heaps. Seas would turn into deserts, their waters rolling away.

'And if the change in the velocity of the diurnal rotation [slowing the planet down] should accompany the shifting of the axis, the water confined to the equatorial oceans by centrifugal force would retreat to the poles, and high tides and hurricanes would rush from pole to pole, carrying reindeers and seals to the tropics and desert lions to the Arctic...
This is even more nonsensical than Edgar Cayce-style crap. There is no evidence of this sort of phenomenon in the geologic record - NONE.

The blog post sites the following "references":

[1] Adrian G. Gilbert & Maurice Cotterell. The Mayan Prophecies. Element Books, 1995. ISBN 1-85230-888-5
[2] Rand & Rose Flem-Ath (Discovering Atlantis)
[3] Rand and Rose Flem Ath, When the Sky Fell. In Search of Atlantis. Orion Books, 1996. ISBN 0 75280 171 6
[4] Immanuel Velikovsky. Earth in Upheaval. 1955. ISBN 0-671-45282-7


The references don't even constitute good science fiction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock
For balance, this is a reasonable "con" article, but it does stack the evidence deck a bit (dodges the harder to explain evidence);
http://www.skrause.org/writing/paper..._and_ecd.shtml
The "con" blog post doesn't dodge any "harder to explain evidence" because no such exists. It actually gives too much credence to ECD by calling it a theory. Hapgood didn't construct a theory. He just made stuff up about things that he didn't understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock
Some of that difficult evidence came "Earth in Upheaval" by Velikovsky;
http://members.tripod.com/~Glove_r/Velikovsky.html

Back later when I have more time.
Velikovsky presents nothing but nonsensical psychobabble.
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