HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Military/History Related Hobbies > Units - Military/Naval Service of ACG Members > Navy

Notices and Announcements

Navy ACG member service in the Navy of any nation.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 18 Apr 17, 13:02
Moulin's Avatar
Moulin Moulin is offline
Brigadier General
United_States
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Monroe
Posts: 2,361
Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
Yeah, the plain metal is the most durable. Updating the fancy stuff is the usual issue for replacing a ship. The key to keeping a ship ... shipshape in mothballs is to prevent or reduce corrosion. Sacrificial anodes, like zinc, have to be maintained, water has to be kept out, and humidity controlled. The cocooning of interior equipment, like turogenerators and degaussing equipment, adds a layer to the protection.

We've come a long way since the 1930s, but even back then most of our WWI destroyers came out of mothballs and into use without too much trauma. Knowing what didn't work back then was probably more important than knowing what did.
interesting and good point on the WW1 DDs
America has a lot of $ to be able to ''scrap'' these ships
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 18 Apr 17, 13:56
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
France
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Summer Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 26,963
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
What bothers me is the Navy is choosing to decommision ships before their service life is used up. Also does anyone have a source as to these ships are going into storage or are they being scrapped? Another issue for me is if Trump wants a bigger Navy, why take out ships early? No one has promised these ships will be replaced by new builds.

Pruitt
__________________
Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 18 Apr 17, 14:41
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
What bothers me is the Navy is choosing to decommision ships before their service life is used up. Also does anyone have a source as to these ships are going into storage or are they being scrapped? Another issue for me is if Trump wants a bigger Navy, why take out ships early? No one has promised these ships will be replaced by new builds.

Pruitt
We'd need to look at specific cases to make that call. They can always play the "Triple D" game, "deactivated, decommissioned, disposed". Some wiggle room in there. Given the lag between the time a ship is first scheduled to leave active duty and the time it actually does we might have a 360-ship navy for a few moments.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 18 Apr 17, 16:19
Arnold J Rimmer's Avatar
Arnold J Rimmer Arnold J Rimmer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Red Dwarf
Posts: 21,076
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Are these ships still mission-viable? Could a smaller, cheaper ship carry out their roles?
__________________
Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 18 Apr 17, 16:43
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
Are these ships still mission-viable? Could a smaller, cheaper ship carry out their roles?
We try to have multi-mission capable ships.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #21  
Old 19 Apr 17, 07:36
Moulin's Avatar
Moulin Moulin is offline
Brigadier General
United_States
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Monroe
Posts: 2,361
Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
Are these ships still mission-viable? Could a smaller, cheaper ship carry out their roles?
yes, the Nassau had the well deck plus choppers--not only could you land troops by chopper and sea, you could also resupply them more efficiently---especially vehicles

..I remember leaving the Nassau from the well deck..everyone was standing in the boat except me [ I always took it easy if I could/etc ] we were hurrying up and waiting!
the helmsman-or whatever- hit the side of the well deck as he was backing out, [ IIRC ] and knocked many people over

whereas the USS Inchon was smaller,and only had choppers
Attached Images
File Type: jpg wd2.jpg (304.3 KB, 4 views)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 19 Apr 17, 10:13
Arnold J Rimmer's Avatar
Arnold J Rimmer Arnold J Rimmer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Red Dwarf
Posts: 21,076
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin View Post
yes, the Nassau had the well deck plus choppers--not only could you land troops by chopper and sea, you could also resupply them more efficiently---especially vehicles

..I remember leaving the Nassau from the well deck..everyone was standing in the boat except me [ I always took it easy if I could/etc ] we were hurrying up and waiting!
the helmsman-or whatever- hit the side of the well deck as he was backing out, [ IIRC ] and knocked many people over

whereas the USS Inchon was smaller,and only had choppers
Looks like the America class, less the first ship, will have well decks. They plan for eleven, which should more than make up for the Tarawa class.

The ship was 38 years old. Is that young to be decommissioned? From what I read it spent a lot of time at sea, including tying the most time at sea without a port call record.
__________________
Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 19 Apr 17, 10:29
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
Looks like the America class, less the first ship, will have well decks. They plan for eleven, which should more than make up for the Tarawa class.

The ship was 38 years old. Is that young to be decommissioned? From what I read it spent a lot of time at sea, including tying the most time at sea without a port call record.
The active duty time for a ship depends on several factors.

1. Did they design it to be "renewed", upgraded easily?

2. Is/are the mission(s) it was intended for still relevant?

3. Have new designs/new weapons made it obsolete?

4. etc.

Doing SLEP* on a ship is expensive, but can effectively double the life of the ship. The Forrestals all went through this IIRC. It's not as expensive as building a ship from scratch, but it is costly and time consuming.


*SLEP: Ship Life Extension Program.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 19 Apr 17, 11:00
Arnold J Rimmer's Avatar
Arnold J Rimmer Arnold J Rimmer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Red Dwarf
Posts: 21,076
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
The active duty time for a ship depends on several factors.

1. Did they design it to be "renewed", upgraded easily?

2. Is/are the mission(s) it was intended for still relevant?

3. Have new designs/new weapons made it obsolete?

4. etc.

Doing SLEP* on a ship is expensive, but can effectively double the life of the ship. The Forrestals all went through this IIRC. It's not as expensive as building a ship from scratch, but it is costly and time consuming.


*SLEP: Ship Life Extension Program.
So what are the answers in this case?

Is the new class a big improvement?
__________________
Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 19 Apr 17, 11:09
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
So what are the answers in this case?

Is the new class a big improvement?
I haven't studied them but from the outside I see immediate improvement, such as a second deck-edge elevator. The Lytton-built ships were as much an experiment in prototyping as they were building warships. The automated main propulsion space system was an utter disaster as well as reducing the manning for the main spaces if they failed to control the 70,000 hp turbines and 750,000 Kwh turbo generators.

As I understand it Lytton built LHA-1, -3, and -5. Experience show that -1's automatic plant controls just didn't work. So she came in and had them removed. Next dock over -3 was having them installed. When they failed on -3 the ship came into have them removed. Next dock over -5 was having them installed. Guess what?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 19 Apr 17, 13:03
Moulin's Avatar
Moulin Moulin is offline
Brigadier General
United_States
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Monroe
Posts: 2,361
Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99]
..thanks all replies/posts...Opana can answer those questions better than I
...I was in the FMF from 87-90 and on 4 ships--all of which have been decommissioned/sold/etc
..like I said, the Nassau seemed 'brand new'' to me in 1990
looks like the Inchon launched 1969, Nassau 1978 both decommed after about 30 years, right?
I was on the LST 1180 USS Manitowoc launched 1969-decom 1993, then
Quote:
The ship was then transferred to the Republic of China through the Security Assistance Program on 29 September 2000.
Quote:
Disposed of through the Security Assistance Program (SAP), transferred, cash sale, ex-US fleet hull foreign military sale case number assigned (Taiwan), 29 September 2000
what does this mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Manitowoc_(LST-1180)
..a lot of old US LSTs were bought by other countries
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 19 Apr 17, 13:05
Moulin's Avatar
Moulin Moulin is offline
Brigadier General
United_States
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Monroe
Posts: 2,361
Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99]
regarding posts # 19 and #21 sealift capability

Quote:
While there was emphasis on lighter ground vehicles in the late 1990s, up-armored and heavier vehicles were used during operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Future counterinsurgency operations require ships that can carry and deliver those vehicles, including through use of shore connectors; cargo lift requirements are met more expensively by aircraft airlifting equipment
I take it they mean the heavier vehicles, and using sealift ...?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americ...s_assault_ship

Last edited by Moulin; 19 Apr 17 at 13:11..
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 19 Apr 17, 13:31
Jose50's Avatar
Jose50 Jose50 is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: the short seacoast of NH
Posts: 12,683
Jose50 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Jose50 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Jose50 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Jose50 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Jose50 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Jose50 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Jose50 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Jose50 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Jose50 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Jose50 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Jose50 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Jose50 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Jose50 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] Jose50 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Cool From a former crewmember

Old? Chief - I think I've got a few years on ya....
Anyways, I was part of the decomm crew for USS INTREPID back in 1974.
It took us four months to get it to where it was far enough along to be towed from Quonset RI to the Philly navy yard. Mucho chipping, red leading, sealing of compartments, dehumidifying, dumping old/unneeded equipment(a lot just went right over the side)yadayadayada...
Years later I saw her as I passed by the Philadelphia yards driving on 95 on my way to FLA...rusty, mast on the flight deck, forlorn...forgotten.
Then along came Zack Fisher and now look at her! The INTREPID AIR/SPACE museum. located at 42nd St. along the Hudson.
Just goes to show that if it's done right, mothballing CAN extend the life of any given ship. INTREPID will be 75 next year.
www.intrepidmuseum.org
__________________
ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
IN MARE IN COELO
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 20 Apr 17, 13:17
Moulin's Avatar
Moulin Moulin is offline
Brigadier General
United_States
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Monroe
Posts: 2,361
Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose50 View Post
Old? Chief - I think I've got a few years on ya....
Anyways, I was part of the decomm crew for USS INTREPID back in 1974.
It took us four months to get it to where it was far enough along to be towed from Quonset RI to the Philly navy yard. Mucho chipping, red leading, sealing of compartments, dehumidifying, dumping old/unneeded equipment(a lot just went right over the side)yadayadayada...
Years later I saw her as I passed by the Philadelphia yards driving on 95 on my way to FLA...rusty, mast on the flight deck, forlorn...forgotten.
Then along came Zack Fisher and now look at her! The INTREPID AIR/SPACE museum. located at 42nd St. along the Hudson.
Just goes to show that if it's done right, mothballing CAN extend the life of any given ship. INTREPID will be 75 next year.
www.intrepidmuseum.org
did they do anything to the hull? update/fix/clean/strengthen/ etc?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 22 Jun 17, 17:10
Nichols's Avatar
Nichols Nichols is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Paul Nichols
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Stafford Virginia
Posts: 11,319
Nichols gives and gets respect [800]
Nichols gives and gets respect [800] Nichols gives and gets respect [800] Nichols gives and gets respect [800] Nichols gives and gets respect [800] Nichols gives and gets respect [800] Nichols gives and gets respect [800] Nichols gives and gets respect [800] Nichols gives and gets respect [800] Nichols gives and gets respect [800] Nichols gives and gets respect [800] Nichols gives and gets respect [800] Nichols gives and gets respect [800] Nichols gives and gets respect [800] Nichols gives and gets respect [800] Nichols gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
Looks like the America class, less the first ship, will have well decks.
The Tripoli also doesn't have a well deck, the focus of the first two ships in this class is purely air...... The current LPD & LSDs have what is deemed 'sufficient' well deck capability...
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:23.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.