HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
British Heritage
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Happening Now > Politics Central

Notices and Announcements

Politics Central Discussion of current and exclusive political nature takes place here. .

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 18 Apr 11, 13:57
The Doctor's Avatar
The Doctor The Doctor is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
 
Real Name: Dave
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 37,891
The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Doctor has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
Ah, but then your list of influences about how the moderates vote (the unfortunates who listen to liberal pundits) is still an interesting remark as you fail to list any conservative pundits being listed to or influencing moderates. It seems that plenty of moderates would listen to both groups, eh?

So wouldn't it be fair to say that the "votes of a significant number are more informed by what they last heard from" O'Reilly, Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.?

Just saying: if there are moderate voters who are prone to being guided by liberal media personalities, then it stands to reason that there would be a smiliar number guided by conservative media personalities.
Moderates don't listen to or watch "O'Reilly, Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc." or Air America-type left-wing talk shows... They watch "Bill Maher, John Stewart, Stephen Colbert, David Letterman and/or Jay Leno"... Well, maybe they don't watch Bill Maher.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 18 Apr 11, 14:00
Miss Saigon's Avatar
Miss Saigon Miss Saigon is offline
General of the Forums - Donut Dolly
South_Vietnam
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: FSB Austin
Posts: 13,475
Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
If the GOP tries to use the rising tide of support to pursue issues like abortion/gay marriage/etc. they run the risk of causing the same divides within the country to reform and harden.
I disagree. These aren't the issues that turn people off, unless you are talking to liberals. The vast majority of Americans are opposed to gay marriage, even in California. I agree with you that I don't care about this, but it is not a losing issue for the republicans.

As far as abortion goes, often what the GOP is doing is trying to remove federal funding for it. There are many things I don't think the government should have money in and this is one of them. It is too contraversial. It is one thing to ban it, it is quite another to force people to help pay for it who are passionately opposed to it. Again, I don't think this is a major issue for most people, but like stem cell research it is a litmus test for the left. I think, except for the liberal base, most Americans don't care so much about de-funding the likes of Planned Parenthood. Especially in the current fiscal situation.

As far as the big issue, Federal size and spending, the state legislatures where the Republicans currently have the most power have little to do with this.

I think Doc is right. The big danger the Republicans have is not getting back to the basics of conservatism. The problem they have is the one they had during the Bush years where they strayed form core principles big time, spent like crazy on their pet projects and constituents, and did nothing to check the growth of government in general. They had both the Congress and white house. They could have done all sorts of things that they had called for over the years like balanced budget amendment, term limits, smaller government, less burden on business, etc. They did none of that. In fact they expanded things like Medicare and Farm subsidies massively. The only thing they did that was traditionally conservative was focus on taxes. In other words, they proved that when it was them in power, the issues no longer mattered. Which is what helped create the tea party. A nice wake up call for Republican establishment.

One must give the Dems credit for the past two years though. Unlike the Republicans who squandered their chance to pass some of their long standing core policy issues, the Dems went right at it and tried to get all the stuff that they have wanted for years but was the hardest to get. Currently there is a back lash against this, but everyone should have been able to see it coming and the democrats were true to their word, unlike when the Republicans controlled everything.

It took two years of Obama and the democrats spending like teenagers at the mall with Dad's credit card to show that fiscal irresponsibility could be even worse than what the republicans were doing under Bush.

But in those two years the Dems rushed through many things because they knew they wouldn't get another opportunity like that for a long long time. Hard left president, hard left congress. I don't think it is this way with the republicans now as much because the reality is that their power right now is mostly in the States, and in the States the issues they can tackle are less sweeping than on the federal level. So they are going after what they can like Gun rights. After all, States already have to balance their budgets and can't influence federal spending, which is where the real damage is being done. Nor do they have any control over the housing programs that caused the financial melt down, but are still in place.

So, where they will really make their impact is in how the public responds to things like what has happened in Wisconsin. If the public looks favorably at these cost cutting measures then it will probably influence decisions on the federal level before the next election. If it appears that the public is not happy about these things in general, then the White House will remain defiant and hope for a more favorable Congress next go round.
__________________


Last edited by Miss Saigon; 18 Apr 11 at 14:04..
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 18 Apr 11, 14:01
Marty Ward's Avatar
Marty Ward Marty Ward is offline
General
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: xxx
Posts: 5,251
Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300]
To quote Clinton, It's the economy stupid. They should never forget that.
__________________
You don't like religious fundamentalists with guns? Who do you think landed at Plymouth Rock?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 18 Apr 11, 16:26
Daemon of Decay's Avatar
Daemon of Decay Daemon of Decay is offline
General of the Forums
Sinc
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Derek
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Satellite Of Love
Posts: 14,025
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Saigon View Post
I disagree. These aren't the issues that turn people off, unless you are talking to liberals. The vast majority of Americans are opposed to gay marriage, even in California. I agree with you that I don't care about this, but it is not a losing issue for the republicans.
But thats not exactly my point. Instead I foresee the possibility of the GOP/Dems continuing to make these other, ancillary issues more prominent in their statements (to fire up support from their bases and/or sway independents). The problem is that it will start to push the budget issues further back as other topics begin to crowd in

I see that as a mistake, because the GOP doesn't need to fight for any social issues at this moment. They have their electorate fired up over cutting spending and trying to reduce the debt. Not only that, but issues of the budget are where the GOP can't loose: as long as things don't get appreciatively better the voters are going to continue to turn on Obama.

If the GOP makes the debt their primary issue and resolves to set other things aside until that problem is dealt with, they will be able to hammer the Dems as they have little ground to stand on the worse the crisis gets. But if you have issues like abortion cluttering up the speeches and news, you will help to create more support for the opposition and possibly turn away moderates/independents.

Its not a sure thing, or even the most likely outcome, but I worry still. The budget and debt are such monumental problems that I don't want our handling of them compromised so some Representatives can score some bonus points with their electorate.
__________________
EiA: Archduke John of Austria

Through My Eyes - My Hearts of Iron AAR

Um actually, "Frankenstorm" was the name of the mad scientist who created it.
- Bill Corbett
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 18 Apr 11, 16:40
Cyberknight's Avatar
Cyberknight Cyberknight is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 16,682
Cyberknight has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Cyberknight has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Cyberknight has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Cyberknight has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Cyberknight has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Cyberknight has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Cyberknight has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Cyberknight has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Cyberknight has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Cyberknight has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Cyberknight has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Cyberknight has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Cyberknight has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Cyberknight has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Cyberknight has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Cyberknight has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
But thats not exactly my point. Instead I foresee the possibility of the GOP/Dems continuing to make these other, ancillary issues more prominent in their statements (to fire up support from their bases and/or sway independents). The problem is that it will start to push the budget issues further back as other topics begin to crowd in

I see that as a mistake, because the GOP doesn't need to fight for any social issues at this moment. They have their electorate fired up over cutting spending and trying to reduce the debt. Not only that, but issues of the budget are where the GOP can't loose: as long as things don't get appreciatively better the voters are going to continue to turn on Obama.

If the GOP makes the debt their primary issue and resolves to set other things aside until that problem is dealt with, they will be able to hammer the Dems as they have little ground to stand on the worse the crisis gets. But if you have issues like abortion cluttering up the speeches and news, you will help to create more support for the opposition and possibly turn away moderates/independents.

Its not a sure thing, or even the most likely outcome, but I worry still. The budget and debt are such monumental problems that I don't want our handling of them compromised so some Representatives can score some bonus points with their electorate.
Lying, cheating and stealing are at least as much social agenda issues as the supposedly harmless lifestyle issues progressives claim don't matter. Progressives have been just as relative in defining alive or dead, murder or medicine, ownership of property, and many other supposedly noncontroversial issues. Morality is not separate from the economy.

Those who have no problem with not paying back money they "borrowed", lying about what money is used or spending other people's money without permisssion are just as involoved in rewriting morality based on self interest and personal convenience as the defenders of abortion, those who ignore the cause and effect of behavior AIDs epidemic, drug addiction or teen pregnancey even though the birth control pill has existed for fifty years.
__________________
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia’s Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #21  
Old 19 Apr 11, 10:22
KICK's Avatar
KICK KICK is offline
General of the Forums
Pirate
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Barron Colliers Land
Posts: 8,710
KICK is a jewel in the rough [500]
KICK is a jewel in the rough [500] KICK is a jewel in the rough [500] KICK is a jewel in the rough [500] KICK is a jewel in the rough [500] KICK is a jewel in the rough [500] KICK is a jewel in the rough [500] KICK is a jewel in the rough [500]
does anybody think that calling moderates "uninformed" is a case of having a closed mind.

resistance to being pigeonholed is a good thing..

liberals and conservatives are one and the same....not unlike Nazis as compared to Communists... they have a dogma they believe in and bray like jackasses whenever it doesn't go their way..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 19 Apr 11, 15:11
Grognard Gunny's Avatar
Grognard Gunny Grognard Gunny is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Don
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 10,952
Grognard Gunny is a pillar of the community [1100] Grognard Gunny is a pillar of the community [1100]
Grognard Gunny is a pillar of the community [1100] Grognard Gunny is a pillar of the community [1100] Grognard Gunny is a pillar of the community [1100] Grognard Gunny is a pillar of the community [1100] Grognard Gunny is a pillar of the community [1100] Grognard Gunny is a pillar of the community [1100] Grognard Gunny is a pillar of the community [1100] Grognard Gunny is a pillar of the community [1100] Grognard Gunny is a pillar of the community [1100] Grognard Gunny is a pillar of the community [1100] Grognard Gunny is a pillar of the community [1100] Grognard Gunny is a pillar of the community [1100] Grognard Gunny is a pillar of the community [1100]
Can't afford to be "moderate" (often also called undecided).

Here it goes! (HEE HAW!)

The Lib/Prog/Dem/Socialist methodology of tax and spend (or, in our case, spend THEN try to tax enough to cover the bet) is rapidly leading the Country to economic disaster.

The Moocher Class does not care anyway, they are already out of work.... just as long as they get their "Obama Money" every month.

So the only ones left, apparently, to try to point this little fact of economic life out are the Conservatives. (One of those groups who bray like jackasses when no one listens.)

So excuse me if I "sound off" a bit in concern. Seems yelling is the only way to get one's point across in the US any longer.

.... and if that effort is considered but braying to the "moderates" (unconvinced in this context), then it is a lost cause.

I wonder what will happen when the Obama Money stops flowing to the Moocher Class in an economic shutdown? (Bound to be something stupid, illogical or illegal. It's their stock in trade.)

GG
__________________
"The will of a section rooted in self interest, should not outweigh the vital interests of a whole people." -Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain-

"Fanatics of any sort are dangerous." -GG-

"Vote Dem: You give vote! ME give money!" -Unk-
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 19 Apr 11, 15:27
Miss Saigon's Avatar
Miss Saigon Miss Saigon is offline
General of the Forums - Donut Dolly
South_Vietnam
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: FSB Austin
Posts: 13,475
Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon of Decay View Post

Its not a sure thing, or even the most likely outcome, but I worry still. The budget and debt are such monumental problems that I don't want our handling of them compromised so some Representatives can score some bonus points with their electorate.
I agree, but again, what can republicans at the state level do? they have little influence over this.

however, they can score points with things like voter ID laws. That will turn out to be popular with a lot of people. If they do things like this it might give them more sway on the national level to fight the bigger fights over budget. Again, on the state level they don't have this power. Although in many states there is a definite need to do some cutting too, like California.

A big issue for me here in Texas is the property tax, but the Austin courts have blocked reform on this for that last 20 years, so I am out of luck. Another big issue right now for me is that the Bureaucracy is trying to tax Amazon purchases. My favorite store and go to move for almost all shopping anymore. The governor and republican legislators are trying to write new legislation to block the State Bureaucracy from imposing Sales tax on Amazon purchases, but they haven't gotten through the legislature yet and may not be fast enough to save the Amazon warehouse in Irving that is the source of the problem. To me this is a major issue and I really want the governor to prevail on this one.

On the other side, an Austin Democrat has introduced a bill that would require sales tax collection on all retail sales that pass through Texas even if only electronically. Meaning, if you buy something in Florida, from a company in California, but the transaction gets routed through a server in TX then you must pay. Now that law won't go anywhere under the current legislature, but it shows how some of those "Keep Austin Weird" types think. Unfortunately, the State Government imposing sales tax collection on Amazon is a real possibility and a real issue that State Republicans can address and that concerns me very much.

But this is just a local issue and not likely to get national press. Therefore it is unlikely to influence the debate on the federal level.

Our best hope on the federal level is that the people continue to be fed up with spending and the tea party keeps bitch slappping establishment republicans, then maybe some real reform might get done. But I doubt it. Once federal money is being spent, then jobs become dependent on it. That was the plan all along don't you know. That is why Obama settled for only a partial health care reform, because he knew once it was in place it would never be eliminated because jobs were now tied up in it, and it would then have room to grow like all federal programs that start small. This is the reason why they can spend trillions in two years, but then only be able to come up with 30 billion in cuts. Because once the spending starts jobs get tied up in it, and it becomes very hard to cut politically without throwing people out of work.

Now mind you, some people need to be thrown out of work like almost everyone at HUD, Education, and the Endowment for the arts and humanities, but that doesn't happen too much in a democracy. So, sadly to say, we are stuck with almost all of the increases that we got over the last two years because the Dems only really want to cut Defense, and the Republicans want to cut what amount to Dem constituencies. So there is gridlock. Don't expect to see real issues like Medicare, Farm Subsidies, Social security, or anything like that take a hit unless the public gets really really angry over spending. Something that not enough are likely to do.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 19 Apr 11, 15:35
Marty Ward's Avatar
Marty Ward Marty Ward is offline
General
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: xxx
Posts: 5,251
Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300] Marty Ward is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Saigon View Post
I agree, but again, what can republicans at the state level do? they have little influence over this.
Money talks.
They could change State law and not require businesses to be uncompensated Federal tax collectors!
__________________
You don't like religious fundamentalists with guns? Who do you think landed at Plymouth Rock?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 19 Apr 11, 15:37
Miss Saigon's Avatar
Miss Saigon Miss Saigon is offline
General of the Forums - Donut Dolly
South_Vietnam
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: FSB Austin
Posts: 13,475
Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Miss Saigon has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Ward View Post
Money talks.
They could change State law and not require businesses to be uncompensated Federal tax collectors!
Sure. And Texas could secede too
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 20 Apr 11, 11:48
Daemon of Decay's Avatar
Daemon of Decay Daemon of Decay is offline
General of the Forums
Sinc
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Derek
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Satellite Of Love
Posts: 14,025
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Saigon View Post
however, they can score points with things like voter ID laws. That will turn out to be popular with a lot of people. If they do things like this it might give them more sway on the national level to fight the bigger fights over budget.
I agree with your post Miss S, but since I'm crunched for time I thought I would just address this one little nugget. I find it interesting that the idea of a voter/national ID card has grown amongst conservatives when 15-20 years ago it would have been treated as a sign of the government trying to "keep tabs on all its citizens" and there would have been dissent over trying to impose "big brother" on the state.

Now it seems reversed; you have the liberals upset and the conservatives supportive.
__________________
EiA: Archduke John of Austria

Through My Eyes - My Hearts of Iron AAR

Um actually, "Frankenstorm" was the name of the mad scientist who created it.
- Bill Corbett
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 20 Apr 11, 11:49
Daemon of Decay's Avatar
Daemon of Decay Daemon of Decay is offline
General of the Forums
Sinc
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Derek
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Satellite Of Love
Posts: 14,025
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Saigon View Post
Sure. And Texas could secede too
You would be surprised how prevalent that false notion is amongst students in Texas, even after they had two semesters of Texas History.
__________________
EiA: Archduke John of Austria

Through My Eyes - My Hearts of Iron AAR

Um actually, "Frankenstorm" was the name of the mad scientist who created it.
- Bill Corbett
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 20 Apr 11, 13:39
Crash's Avatar
Crash Crash is offline
General of the Forums
Canada
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 13,776
Crash has earned the respect of all [900] Crash has earned the respect of all [900]
Crash has earned the respect of all [900] Crash has earned the respect of all [900] Crash has earned the respect of all [900] Crash has earned the respect of all [900] Crash has earned the respect of all [900] Crash has earned the respect of all [900]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
The budget crises is the most important issue facing America today,
Unless you are a jobless American.
__________________
#occupyarmchairgeneral.
Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true. Demosthenes.
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. Laurence J. Peter
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 20 Apr 11, 13:45
TacCovert4's Avatar
TacCovert4 TacCovert4 is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Knight of Rome
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: On Crusade
Posts: 11,440
TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100]
TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100] TacCovert4 is a pillar of the community [1100]
I'm most interested in the poll ID requirements. Which states are pushing for those? Unlike 'writing tests, etc.' I can't see requiring an ID that can be obtained cheaply (or we could make obtaining a basic ID FREE), and that 99.9% of all legal Americans over the age of 16 have, as a violation of ones rights. Conversely I see attaching your ID or OLN to your ballot to be a surefire way of preventing poll fraud by at least 2 methods, the dead voting, and double-voting. They can also be run by individuals who have taken a class and have a terminal with the proper access (in case fraud or a fake ID is suspected), can verify residency, and have a handy-dandy picture to assist in identifying the person in question.

I can see why politicians (which for whatever reason seem to be Democrats at the moment) would have a lot of problems with this, as it really puts a damper on a lot of their efforts, especially those to get votes by marginal or downright illegal means.
__________________
Commander Chinese Forces

Lt. Dan, Company XO and sometimes Armored Car commander.

Last edited by TacCovert4; 20 Apr 11 at 13:49..
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 20 Apr 11, 14:21
Daemon of Decay's Avatar
Daemon of Decay Daemon of Decay is offline
General of the Forums
Sinc
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Real Name: Derek
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Satellite Of Love
Posts: 14,025
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Daemon of Decay has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash View Post
Unless you are a jobless American.
Or if you are a teenage girl going to the Prom with a zit.

Yes, technically you are right, but the problem is that the budget crisis threatens to make even more people unemployed. Not to mention that if we can overcome the crisis we will be better set to help people get employed later. There could be plenty more government and state employees unemployed if the government can't keep itself from collapsing financially.
__________________
EiA: Archduke John of Austria

Through My Eyes - My Hearts of Iron AAR

Um actually, "Frankenstorm" was the name of the mad scientist who created it.
- Bill Corbett
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:27.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.