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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East

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The Middle East Asia Minor, the Arab Mahgreb, and the Persian Gulf to include tensions between Israel and its Arab neighbors, Terrorist organizations and Iran.

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  #46  
Old 04 Mar 11, 16:50
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Latest from Al Jazeera:


Quote:
10:02pm

At least nine people have been killed and 10 others injured outside an ammunition depot near Benghazi. There are conflicting reports about the cause of Friday's blast.

Hospital sources said it was triggered when people went into the storage facility to collect weapons, however, others blamed pro-Gaddafi forces for the blast.

7:59pm

The UN says Moammar Gaddafi's government is asking that senior Libyan diplomat Ali Abdussalam Treki be granted credentials as Libya's new UN representative.

Martin Nesirky, a spokesman for UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, said that the UN chief's office also received a second letter requesting that diplomatic credentials be withdrawn for Ambassador Mohamed Shalgham and Deputy Ambassador Ibrahim Dabbashi.

Both have publicly renounced Gadhafi for his action against protesters seeking his ouster.


4:08pm

Justin Forsyth, chief executive of Save the Children said:

"The use of children in conflict is completely unacceptable, and constitutes a war crime. It is essential that all such reports are thoroughly investigated and that anyone found to be responsible for such blatant violations of children’s rights is held to account."

"Children who are used as soldiers are exposed to high levels of violence, and risk being killed or wounded. They are victims in this crisis, and should be treated as such. They need psychological support to overcome the very traumatic events they have experienced. These reports underline the precarious situation of children in Libya, and highlight the urgent need for humanitarian aid organisations to be given access to the worst affected areas in the country."


3:53pm

In an interview with Al Jazeera Arabic, Abdel Rahman Shalgham, the Libyan ambassador to the UN, says he is representing the intern council, not Gaddafi.

" We ask Gaddafi to step down like Mubarak or leave the country like Ben Ali." He also said that at least 80 per cent of those who are still supporting Gaddafi are mercenaries. " We are going to put the mercenaries and their countries on trail. I asked all the people to support the interim council," Shalgham said.

3:46pm

A spokesperson from HM Treasury, the United Kingdom government department responsible for developing and executing the British government's public finance policy and economic policy, said:

"A vessel which had been heading to Libya returned to the UK on Wednesday morning. The ship was escorted into the port of Harwich by the UK Border Agency cutter HMC Vigilant. A number of containers were offloaded from the boat and have been taken under control of UK Border Agency and have been moved to a secure location.

"The cargo is understood to contain a significant quantity of Libyan currency which is subject to a UN sanction."

1:14pm
Shadi Hamid, of the Brookings Doha Centre, tells Al Jazeera:

Gaddafi has made it unequivocally clear that he is not going to step down. The pro-democracy forces in the east of the country want to move into Tripoli, [but] they don't have the fire power, they don't have the troops.

He adds that a "no fly" zone could shift the balance, but acknowledges that the move is not without its risks. "Bold action is often risky," he said.

Philip
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  #47  
Old 05 Mar 11, 10:34
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Well that's quite a surprise - David Frost is now working for Al Jareera.

Quote:
As the international community debates what to do about Libya, Al Jazeera’s David Frost talkes to US senator John McCain and the UN high commissioner for refugees, Antonio Guterres.
It looks like Gadhaffi's forces are about to take Al Zawiyah. The BBC just spoke by phone to a resident who said 20 to 30 tanks are approaching and firing indiscriminately into the main square from the west and and the east.

Al Jarrera are reporting this:

Quote:
4:03pm

As many as 35 of Gaddafi's tanks are approaching Az Zawiyah from the city's east, Al Jazeera is told.

2:04pm

Al Jazeera's Tony Birtley, reporting from Bengahzi, tells us several funerals have just taken place for several of those killed in yesterday's ammunition dump explosion.

He also compared the situation to the end of the first war against Iraq, when President George Bush incited Kurds and Shia iraqis to rise up against Saddam Hussein. But Saddam, in control of the skies, brutally crushed the uprising - which came without US military support - using helicopter gunships.

2:00pm

Al Jazeera's correspondent in Ras Lanuf tells us that a large number of Libyan military figures have switched sides and have joined the armed opposition groups.

Philip
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  #48  
Old 05 Mar 11, 11:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philiplaos View Post
Well that's quite a surprise - David Frost is now working for Al Jareera.



It looks like Gadhaffi's forces are about to take Al Zawiyah. The BBC just spoke by phone to a resident who said 20 to 30 tanks are approaching and firing indiscriminately into the main square from the west and and the east.

Al Jarrera are reporting this:




Philip
This is another instance where we, the US, will stand idly by while people are killed in an effort to throw off an oppressive dictator.

We need another Ronald Reagan -- and we need him right now.

The idiot we have in the White House at the moment can't be bothered with all this turmoil -- after all, he has a basketball game he needs to focus on so he can get done with that in time to get in a round of golf.

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  #49  
Old 05 Mar 11, 11:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
This is another instance where we, the US, will stand idly by while people are killed in an effort to throw off an oppressive dictator.

We need another Ronald Reagan -- and we need him right now.

The idiot we have in the White House at the moment can't be bothered with all this turmoil -- after all, he has a basketball game he needs to focus on so he can get done with that in time to get in a round of golf.

Wrong answer IMO! It's their business not our's. I for one am tired of getting mixed up in the internal affairs of others. Little good has come of such actions in the past.

I'll take this idiot over the last one. He has at least not gotten into two wars that don't seem to end and when they do well most likely turn around and bite as on the ass. Two wars that have become black holes for our $$$ while our own infrastructural continues to degenerate. How many of those billions would have been better spent at home? Most all of them. Enough I say. I'm tried, understatement, of the US trying to be the worlds policemen. I really don't care if we are #1 or #4. We need to start looking inward and solving the problems at home first or we'll be lucky to remain in the top 10.

Bashing Bush? Blame Bush? You can bet on that.
.
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  #50  
Old 05 Mar 11, 12:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Wrong answer IMO! It's their business not our's. I for one am tired of getting mixed up in the internal affairs of others. Little good has come of such actions in the past.

I'll take this idiot over the last one. He has at least not gotten into two wars that don't seem to end and when they do well most likely turn around and bite as on the ass. Two wars that have become black holes for our $$$ while our own infrastructural continues to degenerate. How many of those billions would have been better spent at home? Most all of them. Enough I say. I'm tried, understatement, of the US trying to be the worlds policemen. I really don't care if we are #1 or #4. We need to start looking inward and solving the problems at home first or we'll be lucky to remain in the top 10.

Bashing Bush? Blame Bush? You can bet on that.
.
I'll certainly agree, in part, with what you're saying John -- and I'm not suggesting we go to "war" with the Idiot Qaddafi - but - if his tanks are approaching a town held by the opposition - I'd suggest a little "deterrent" for Qaddafi's forces -- we have the capability - even with the sixth fleet now in mothballs for all practical purposes - of targeting several of his tanks and taking them out quickly with the forces we have right in the area - just to send a message and help the opposition with a little morale reenforcement.

It doesn't take much to give them "heart" and to let them know that they have friends watching -- that might pay huge dividends down the road.

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  #51  
Old 05 Mar 11, 12:37
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I would like to see countries other than the US and Britain take the lead in whatever response, or not, is decided on. It's time they did. I'd like to see us renounce this 'world's policemen' role and make that renunciation public.

Quote:
4:48pm

French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe said his country was seeking a United Nations Security Council resolution to impose a no-fly zone in Libya.

"We are working in New York with the British to get a UN Security Council resolution creating an air exclusion zone to avoid bombings," he said in Bordeaux.

"We are on the side of all those who want to win their freedom and make a successful democratic transition," Juppe said shortly before leaving for Egypt and his first official visit outside Europe since being appointed.
Philip
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  #52  
Old 05 Mar 11, 12:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
This is another instance where we, the US, will stand idly by while people are killed in an effort to throw off an oppressive dictator.

We need another Ronald Reagan -- and we need him right now.

The idiot we have in the White House at the moment can't be bothered with all this turmoil -- after all, he has a basketball game he needs to focus on so he can get done with that in time to get in a round of golf.

It's not USA's job to help them. The world will just QQ regardless of the clear moral justification for military action. Look at A-Stan and Iraq. There was strong military and moral justification for invasion in both cases, but the world was still pissed.

The is an Arab/EU problem, they need to stop fing around and take care of their own problems. It's Arabs that are being killed and European oil that is at stake. USA shouldn't even help European nationals evac, the EU needs to learn that sometimes you just have to man up and put boots on the ground.
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  #53  
Old 05 Mar 11, 13:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destroyer25 View Post
It's not USA's job to help them. The world will just QQ regardless of the clear moral justification for military action. Look at A-Stan and Iraq. There was strong military and moral justification for invasion in both cases, but the world was still pissed.

The is an Arab/EU problem, they need to stop fing around and take care of their own problems. It's Arabs that are being killed and European oil that is at stake. USA shouldn't even help European nationals evac, the EU needs to learn that sometimes you just have to man up and put boots on the ground.
Granted -- you have a point -- but ---

I have spent most of my life doing things that were not my job --

I'm not very good at waiting around for others to do their job --

I'm more about getting the job done --- rather than looking around to see who's responsibility it might be.

You don't even want to help with EU nationals being Evacuated ?? We should check passports now before we help people avoid being killed ??

Again -- I'm not suggesting a war - I'm not advocating that we take out his air force or tank corps - I'm suggesting that we let Qaddafi know that he is being watched - I'm suggesting a little nudge to help the opposition would be all that's required to make Qaddafi see the error of his ways.

At the moment he is slaughtering his citizens with impunity -- I don't believe I live in a country that would allow such a thing to happen if there was anything we could do to stop it.

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  #54  
Old 05 Mar 11, 13:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
I'll certainly agree, in part, with what you're saying John -- and I'm not suggesting we go to "war" with the Idiot Qaddafi - but - if his tanks are approaching a town held by the opposition - I'd suggest a little "deterrent" for Qaddafi's forces -- we have the capability - even with the sixth fleet now in mothballs for all practical purposes - of targeting several of his tanks and taking them out quickly with the forces we have right in the area - just to send a message and help the opposition with a little morale reenforcement.

It doesn't take much to give them "heart" and to let them know that they have friends watching -- that might pay huge dividends down the road.

Limited I might be able to agree on. But each time we seem to have "mission creep" once we start. So far the rebels seem to be holding their own or advancing. IF and when the rebels should ask for help, then a run or two by some F18's might bare friut.
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Old 05 Mar 11, 13:29
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12647115

The report states that 2-3000 Tauregs from Mali have joined pro-Gaddafi forces.

I am not sure why anyone expects Arab countries to do anything. Most are run by corrupt dictatorships - it is probably in their interest for the uprising to be crushed. Would nt want any of their own people getting ideas.
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Old 05 Mar 11, 13:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12647115

The report states that 2-3000 Tauregs from Mali have joined pro-Gaddafi forces.

I am not sure why anyone expects Arab countries to do anything. Most are run by corrupt dictatorships - it is probably in their interest for the uprising to be crushed. Would nt want any of their own people getting ideas.
An 10,000 "enlistment bonus" and 1,000 per day in payment for "services" is a lot of money to Tuareg's -- and I'm fairly certain that they have no idea what's at stake to begin with.

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Old 05 Mar 11, 13:45
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I was in Tripoli Libya in 1960 on a little Mediterranean Cruise -- Tripoli was one of our "ports of call" - the place was actually very nice at the time -- I considered it an "exotic cultural experience" LOL

The people weren't very friendly and the street vendors were rather insistent - I can't say that I was enamored with the population -- but even so - they should have the right to freedom if they are willing to fight for it - as it appears that they are.

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Old 05 Mar 11, 13:47
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Poverty will make a lot of people risk everything. Add in the background of earlier Libyan involvement in the region's wars.

A caller to Al Arabia TV has said that thousands are moving towards Sirta. Al Jazeera has also mentioned the inter-tribal rift and clash that has developed within Sirta.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
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Old 05 Mar 11, 14:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Franz View Post
Granted -- you have a point -- but ---

I have spent most of my life doing things that were not my job --

I'm not very good at waiting around for others to do their job --

I'm more about getting the job done --- rather than looking around to see who's responsibility it might be.

You don't even want to help with EU nationals being Evacuated ?? We should check passports now before we help people avoid being killed ??

Again -- I'm not suggesting a war - I'm not advocating that we take out his air force or tank corps - I'm suggesting that we let Qaddafi know that he is being watched - I'm suggesting a little nudge to help the opposition would be all that's required to make Qaddafi see the error of his ways.

At the moment he is slaughtering his citizens with impunity -- I don't believe I live in a country that would allow such a thing to happen if there was anything we could do to stop it.

I am a very strong supporter of military intervention to prevent the escalation of conflicts and to help oppressed people. But I don't think it should be USA's job, and I think that now isn't a good time. The rest of the world needs to take some responsibility, especially when it's a problem in their own backyard.

My view on things is, you fix the problems you make. Thus, the Belgians should be responsible for the DRoC, the British for Sudan and any other former British colony. The French should be dealing with Ivory Coast, etc.

Libya is the EU's, and more specifically, Italy and Britain's problem. The Arabs should also be helping out, but again, the Arabs really don't care about each other, they only work together to gang bang Israel.
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Old 05 Mar 11, 14:10
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PhilipLaos PhilipLaos is offline
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Quote:
CNN just reported that rebels in the east are claiming to have shot down a military aircraft as they started their move westwards to Sirte. That would be quite something if true.
It is true. John Simpson of the BBC just filed video showing the downed plane which he described as a 'fighter-bomber'. The two pilots died when it crashed after being hit by an anti-aircraft shell. Amazingly, the gunner who shot it down was, according to Simpson, "on his first day as an anti-aircraft gunner".

This could change things in the minds of Gadhaffi's airforce crews.


Philip

Last edited by PhilipLaos; 05 Mar 11 at 16:11..
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