HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Civil War

Notices and Announcements

American Civil War The American Civil War.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 22 Feb 11, 01:35
Irishtom29's Avatar
Irishtom29 Irishtom29 is offline
Staff Sergeant
United_States
 
Real Name: Tom Brennan
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 146
Irishtom29 is on the path to success [1-99] Irishtom29 is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
Tom,

You are saying that Lowland Scots are a Germanic People? Scots is a Germanic language? The English are Germanic? You are claiming Manx are Celtic? Words fail me!
Celts are people who speak a Celtic language. DNA markers mean little because people are mixed; thus language is the best way to define most ethnicities.

And yes, Scots is a Germanic tongue. As is English. And the English are a Germanic people with strong origins in Germany and speaking a Germanic tongue. And with a German royal family.

I know it's cool to be Celtic nowadays and many go to great lengths to show Celtic origins but I'm "native" Catholic Irish from all my grandparents and I don't consider myself a Celt as the last Irish speaker in the family was my grandfather (from Mayo) who spoke it well.

I read the Steel Bonnets when it was first published. And all the Flashman books too, for what it's worth.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 22 Feb 11, 01:51
General Brock's Avatar
General Brock General Brock is offline
General of the Forums
Luxembourg
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: where ever
Posts: 5,849
General Brock has disabled reputation
Gotta love the Irish.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 22 Feb 11, 02:39
The Exorcist's Avatar
The Exorcist The Exorcist is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 27,509
The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Didn't Lee almost always loos a higher % of his troops than the Union commanders he fought?


(wondering why that pirate dude hasn't noticed that everyone is ignoring him...)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TactiKill J. View Post
...
If your argument is that the government doesn't spy on its own citizens then you're completely oblivious to reality.
Blaming the Las Vegas massacre on gun owners is like blaming 9-11 on frequent fliers.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 22 Feb 11, 03:55
newjack66's Avatar
newjack66 newjack66 is offline
Gunnery Sergeant
Australia
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Darren
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: PERTH
Posts: 216
newjack66 is on the path to success [1-99]
I have read that accurate accounts of casualities was problematic.

Are figures such as Wilderness and Gettysburg inclusive of mamed soldiers, MIA's etc ?? or just include those killed on the battlefield ? How were figures colated ?

How many men may have died of wounds days after a battle and their deaths not directly included in those battle figures ?
__________________
"I hope to live long enough to see my surviving comrades march side by side with the Union veterans along Pennsylvania Avenue, and then I will die happy."

General James Longstreet at a Memorial Day Parade in 1902
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 22 Feb 11, 03:59
General Brock's Avatar
General Brock General Brock is offline
General of the Forums
Luxembourg
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: where ever
Posts: 5,849
General Brock has disabled reputation
No! the Union had the higher number of casualties after
Gettysburg (not in every battle) but it wasn't by a wide margin
and the problem was that the Confederates could not afford
them as they had no re-enforcements to bank upon.

Most men died from disease which brought the causality count up.

Confederate figures can not be totally relied upon either.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #51  
Old 22 Feb 11, 05:32
D1J1's Avatar
D1J1 D1J1 is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Eastern US
Posts: 9,161
D1J1 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] D1J1 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
D1J1 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] D1J1 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] D1J1 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] D1J1 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] D1J1 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] D1J1 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] D1J1 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] D1J1 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] D1J1 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] D1J1 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Quote:
Originally Posted by grognard View Post
One of the many reasons i gave up on the history channel a while ago--little history, and too much of what there is is laughable, not history or even good speculation.
The show in question here was on the Military Channel. Though your sentiments can apply to both in many cases!

Regards,
Dennis
__________________
If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.

Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 22 Feb 11, 06:57
grognard's Avatar
grognard grognard is offline
General
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 100 Greatest Generals Winner, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Worcester MASS
Posts: 4,219
grognard is walking in the light [200] grognard is walking in the light [200] grognard is walking in the light [200] grognard is walking in the light [200] grognard is walking in the light [200] grognard is walking in the light [200] grognard is walking in the light [200] grognard is walking in the light [200] grognard is walking in the light [200] grognard is walking in the light [200] grognard is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Brock View Post
What GG you don't like Ice Pilots or IRT that Lisa is hot and man
can she drive. But I do agree with you it does stink for the History
aspect of what it was set up for.
My mistake on military vs. history. As for the shows you mentioned, I never said I didn't like them. I can't honestly say that because I've never watched them in the first place
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 22 Feb 11, 08:11
The Highwayman's Avatar
The Highwayman The Highwayman is offline
Brigadier General
United_States
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 2,073
The Highwayman has demonstrated strength of character [100] The Highwayman has demonstrated strength of character [100] The Highwayman has demonstrated strength of character [100] The Highwayman has demonstrated strength of character [100] The Highwayman has demonstrated strength of character [100] The Highwayman has demonstrated strength of character [100] The Highwayman has demonstrated strength of character [100] The Highwayman has demonstrated strength of character [100] The Highwayman has demonstrated strength of character [100] The Highwayman has demonstrated strength of character [100] The Highwayman has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Quote:
Celts are people who speak a Celtic language.
That's absurd, by that logic most members of the six Celtic nations are 'Germanic' since most speak English; Celtic usually means anyone belonging to one of the three Gaelic ethnic groups or one of the three Brythonic ethnicities. As for the idea that Scotland was divided between 'Germanic' lowlanders and 'Gaelic' Highlanders don't make me laugh, no one stays 'pure' especially people on a small island. There are actually distinct differences between British ethnic groups, compare Cillian Murphy to Daniel Craig.
__________________
"They're inviting us to defeat them! We must oblige them!"
-Baron Munchausen

"Ah, 'tis midsummer madness, the music is my temples, the hot blood of youth! Come, Kapellmeister, let the violas throb. My regiment leaves at dawn!"
-Groucho Marx
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 22 Feb 11, 09:43
Jon Jordan's Avatar
Jon Jordan Jon Jordan is offline
Lieutenant General
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,010
Jon Jordan has a spectacular aura about [400]
Jon Jordan has a spectacular aura about [400] Jon Jordan has a spectacular aura about [400] Jon Jordan has a spectacular aura about [400] Jon Jordan has a spectacular aura about [400] Jon Jordan has a spectacular aura about [400]
Quote:
Originally Posted by renrich View Post
As for Pickett's charge, I have tried to get inside Lee's head and my guess is that the following factors caused him to make that decision.
He was in a battle that was unexpected and things had gone well at first with several Union Corps ruined.
Lee was desperate because he had the Union Army out in the open away from Virginia where a victoy would have a big impact on Washington.
Lee knew that the winter of 1863-64 was probably going to leave him immobile in Virginia because of the wastage of horses and mules. There had been a shortage of fodder already in the previous winter. ( Jackson's army in the Shenandoah Campaign of 18000 troops had a wagon train of 1500 wagons. Imagine how many horses and mules Lee had at Gettysburg.)
Lee knew that the morale of his infantry was never going to be better and they had always come through for him in the past.
I believe that Lee was physically and mentally worn out. The burden of the fate of the Confederacy must have weighed heavily on him and he was probably suffering from angina.
In other words it was now or never.
Also, Lee had a great deal of (misplaced) faith in his artillery bombardment - 150-odd massed guns was a formidable force, but their fuzes were unreliable and ammunition was in too short a supply after the second day's fighting, especially on Longstreet's end. EP Alexander predicted the bombardment would not be very thorough and had misgivings about the attack, as did Longstreet, though neither man had the courage to act on it, especially in light of Lee's reputation.
__________________
"There are only two professions in the world in which the amateur excels the professional. One, military strategy, and, two, prostitution."
-- Maj. Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower

(Avatar: Commodore Edwin Ward Moore, Republic of Texas Navy)
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 22 Feb 11, 09:46
Jon Jordan's Avatar
Jon Jordan Jon Jordan is offline
Lieutenant General
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,010
Jon Jordan has a spectacular aura about [400]
Jon Jordan has a spectacular aura about [400] Jon Jordan has a spectacular aura about [400] Jon Jordan has a spectacular aura about [400] Jon Jordan has a spectacular aura about [400] Jon Jordan has a spectacular aura about [400]
Does anyone know how the scythe of disease played into the two sides' casualty rates? I would expect with their better food supply and greater logistics, the North would have a lower permanent loss rate from disease than did the South -- which, as pointed out, would play a bigger role in deciding the war than battle casualties.
__________________
"There are only two professions in the world in which the amateur excels the professional. One, military strategy, and, two, prostitution."
-- Maj. Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower

(Avatar: Commodore Edwin Ward Moore, Republic of Texas Navy)
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 22 Feb 11, 10:24
mgronski's Avatar
mgronski mgronski is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Mike Gronski
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Posts: 1,295
mgronski is on the path to success [1-99] mgronski is on the path to success [1-99] mgronski is on the path to success [1-99] mgronski is on the path to success [1-99] mgronski is on the path to success [1-99]
Diseases happened primarily through unsanitary conditions and poor food along with contagious diseases that raw troops had not been subject to before (another reason armies kept on the move, they used up all the fresh water from wells and made streams unusable).
As far as Gettysburg goes, the heat caused many cases of death due to sunstroke.
The Rebs also made the mistake of partaking too much green fruit with its obvious results.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 22 Feb 11, 10:42
mgronski's Avatar
mgronski mgronski is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Mike Gronski
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Posts: 1,295
mgronski is on the path to success [1-99] mgronski is on the path to success [1-99] mgronski is on the path to success [1-99] mgronski is on the path to success [1-99] mgronski is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Wittenberg View Post
It makes for good press, Mike, and that God-awful book of Carhart's legitimizes it, because then they can say they relied on it.

Here's what I had to say about that book on my blog: http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=5. There's really not much to add to that.
...Thanks for the link.

Did Lee even know where 6th Corps was for sure? If Stuart had made it past Gregg, wouldn't he have just come up to where 6th Corps was as the reserve of the AoP (a Kil-cavalry in reverse?).

If I were Lee, I wouldn't want to sacrifice my cavalry and not have any for the trip home...Stuart needed every body he had as it turned out.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 22 Feb 11, 10:55
KICK's Avatar
KICK KICK is offline
General of the Forums
Pirate
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Barron Colliers Land
Posts: 8,711
KICK is a jewel in the rough [500]
KICK is a jewel in the rough [500] KICK is a jewel in the rough [500] KICK is a jewel in the rough [500] KICK is a jewel in the rough [500] KICK is a jewel in the rough [500] KICK is a jewel in the rough [500] KICK is a jewel in the rough [500]
G'burg is Lee's biggest blunder, anyway you cut it
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 22 Feb 11, 11:00
Eric Wittenberg's Avatar
Eric Wittenberg Eric Wittenberg is offline
Lieutenant General
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Eric J. Wittenberg
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 3,233
Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500]
Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500] Eric Wittenberg is a jewel in the rough [500]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgronski View Post
...Thanks for the link.

Did Lee even know where 6th Corps was for sure? If Stuart had made it past Gregg, wouldn't he have just come up to where 6th Corps was as the reserve of the AoP (a Kil-cavalry in reverse?).

If I were Lee, I wouldn't want to sacrifice my cavalry and not have any for the trip home...Stuart needed every body he had as it turned out.
You're welcome.

No, he had no idea.

Stuart's orders were to operate on Ewell's flank, and, if possible, to make some mischief in the rear. Nothing more, nothing less. Carhart claims that Stuart was ordered to coordinate with Pickett's assault, but that it was a verbal order and that there is no record of it. Further, he rationalizes the lack of any mention of this in Lee's report as Lee's attempt to salve Stuart's fragile ego.

Never mind that there is not a single shred of evidence to support any of this. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

All of this means that Stuart really had NO clue what was in the Union rear, only that it might be possible to get there.

Eric
__________________
"If you want to have some fun, jine the cavalry"

Maj. Gen. James Ewell Brown Stuart
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 22 Feb 11, 11:09
scottmanning's Avatar
scottmanning scottmanning is offline
First Sergeant
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Scott Manning
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 244
scottmanning is on the path to success [1-99] scottmanning is on the path to success [1-99] scottmanning is on the path to success [1-99] scottmanning is on the path to success [1-99] scottmanning is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Wittenberg View Post
Carhart claims that Stuart was ordered to coordinate with Pickett's assault, but that it was a verbal order and that there is no record of it.
Oh, man. That is terrible! I recall reading another book with a similar theory. I do not recall it pushing the verbal order theory, but it did claim that Custer "saved" the Union at Gettysburg. For the life of me, I cannot remember the name.

As Keegan said, "Historians are dedicated to controversy as a way of life". By taking a tarnished figure like Custer and attaching so much importance to him, a historian can sell some books and even get his own TV special.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:03.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.