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  #1  
Old 29 Jan 11, 16:35
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Napoleonic Code vs English civil law

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
As a rule, no, but I am prepared to tolerate them on a case by case if the alternative is worse. A non-aggressive dictatorship may be a better neighbor than zealous "democratic" revolutionaries. It was a lot safer sharing a peninsula with Francisco Franco than a border with revolutionary France. It may even be better for it's own people, as The Terror illustrates.
The Nazies probably would have agreed with you, they had a true friend in the west. A neighbor that had made clean house with all socialist, unionist
free artist's, free speech journalist's, philosophers, Darwinist's and you know, other people that seem to irk you a lot like me.

And the noble 1% families that enjoyed absolute power at the end of the 19th century would have fully understood you too. The remaining 99 %
of peasant stock might have appreciated evil things like freedom of the press, free education for their children, or just simple things like not collecting forrest flowers for the countess on a sunday.
Because the Countess appreciated a natural ambiance in the ballroom.
Peasant's had no rights and had to be ready for any noble whims.

The french revolution initiated CIVIL LAW(pretty much like we enjoy it today) for the european courts, after french troops had liberated.

Hmn, I can see where you comming from now
or perhaps you took siesta's during history class ?
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  #2  
Old 29 Jan 11, 16:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
What other time period was Generalissimo Franco in power in Spain?
!
There where 3 periods :
1939 - 1942 :
His hidden military alliance with Nazi Germany (Blue Divisions)
1942 - 1945:
Bowing to allied pressure , still remaing friendly with Nazi Germany
1945 - 1979:
Collaborating with the western powers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
Let's say 1789 until Napoleon seized power in 1799.
O! K!
The peasants of the eastern borders couldn't wait to be liberated from
their absolute rulers.
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  #3  
Old 29 Jan 11, 19:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konzev View Post
The Nazies probably would have agreed with you, they had a true friend in the west. A neighbor that had made clean house with all socialist, unionist
free artist's, free speech journalist's, philosophers, Darwinist's and you know, other people that seem to irk you a lot like me.
Personal attacks are uncalled for. You irk me, not people like you. You assume since I'm generally conservative I'm some sort of religious fanatic when in fact I'm an agnostic who leans towards atheism and an ardent supporter of free speech, individual as opposed to state rights, and "Darwinism." I am in fact a classic liberal, not the twisted leftist breed that absconded with the title 100 years ago. I believe in a minimalist state with maximum freedom; you believe in an all encompassing state with little freedom.

Quote:
And the noble 1% families that enjoyed absolute power at the end of the 19th century would have fully understood you too. The remaining 99 %
of peasant stock might have appreciated evil things like freedom of the press, free education for their children, or just simple things like not collecting forrest flowers for the countess on a sunday.
You are probably ignorant enough to assume that everyone killed by the Terror in France were aristocrats and nobles or that no peasants (French or otherwise) died in the wars France inflicted on all it's neighbors. Or that people in revolutionary France actually enjoyed freedom of the press when many of them were guillotined for saying the wrong thing in a newspaper or even expressing insufficient zeal for the revolution. A lesson every socialist regime since has taken to heart, from the revolutionaries of 1848 through Marx, Hitler, Lenin, Mussolini, and Mao.

Quote:
Because the Countess appreciated a natural ambiance in the ballroom.
Peasant's had no rights and had to be ready for any noble whims.
You mean like having what type of light bulb we can use shoved down our throats by government bureaucrats who think they know better than we how to spend our own money?

The difference between us is that I understand people will abuse state power; which is why we try so hard to prevent them from getting it in the first place. It doesn't matter if they are so-called nobility or simply educated in the correct schools they will still try to dominate and control. There is no significant difference between the old nobility and modern statists. You have become what you hate. You support the state because it gives you power over your neighbors.

Quote:
The french revolution initiated CIVIL LAW(pretty much like we enjoy it today) for the european courts, after french troops had liberated.
Gee, America seems to have got civil law from Britain without even being conquered by France. Who'd have thunk continental Europe would be so backward?

Quote:
Hmn, I can see where you comming from now
or perhaps you took siesta's during history class ?
At least I learned something in history class. When do you intend to start?
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  #4  
Old 29 Jan 11, 23:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
Personal attacks are uncalled for.
You irk me, not people like you.
:
Please do not mistake me being polemic with a personal attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
You assume since I'm generally conservative I'm some sort of religious fanatic when in fact I'm an agnostic who leans towards atheism and an ardent supporter of free speech, individual as opposed to state rights, and "Darwinism."
:
No, you made that clear to me in earlier exchanges.
I know that you are conservative, but with some romatic notions about religious history. And yes, I like to challenge that wherever I can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
I am in fact a classic liberal, not the twisted leftist breed that absconded with the title 100 years ago. I believe in a minimalist state with maximum freedom; you believe in an all encompassing state with little freedom.
:
There seem to be a lot of confusion, when europeans and americans discuss
liberalism. There seems to be a huge gap, by how americans consider liberals
and how europeans do.

Conservatives in your country equate all liberals as leftist .
Have you resolved that issue with your fellow conservatives ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
You are probably ignorant enough to assume that everyone killed by the Terror in France were aristocrats and nobles or that no peasants (French or otherwise) died in the wars France inflicted on all it's neighbors.
:
You should not serve this aqusation on my plate, when I have made no statement, that justifies calling me ignorant on this topic.
Where is the evdience that I did ?
You start an aquisation and lace it with broad generalisations about the complex issue of the french revolution.
To answer your question, there was resistance against the french revolutionary republic in the Vandee, Lorraine and Grenoble.
Who staged a peasant insurgency religiously motivated, using terror.

The french republican army was threatened by Austria, Prussia and several other german Herzogtums, Grafschaften and Palatinates.
The foreign armies invaded france and where defeated.
That's when the french republican army went into the Rhineland, Lombardy
and Austria.

You americans always like to talk about the terror of the french revolutionaries and romanticise the Nobility.
Not wanting to discuss the terror and the hardship it brought upon his own subjects. In europe we don't choose what side we want to listen too, we listen to all sides of our history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
Or that people in revolutionary France actually enjoyed freedom of the press when many of them were guillotined for saying the wrong thing in a newspaper or even expressing insufficient zeal for the revolution.
:
It is probably true that the french peasantry where not mentallly ready
to understand the finer applications of justice, when wanting to project violence, and that the intellectuals leading them, often lost control, or worse perhaps sometimes sized opportunity in their vigilantism.
The skill of a conducting a democratic state was lost with the ancient Greeks and Romans, when their empires vanished.
The french revolution started from scratch and it was not a pretty situation that unraveled. Neverthess the reaissance and birth of european democracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
A lesson every socialist regime since has taken to heart, from the revolutionaries of 1848 through Marx, Hitler, Lenin, Mussolini, and Mao.
:
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate 1848.
The germans enjoyed for the first time in their lives civil law like we do it today from 1806 - 1813 under the regency of Jerome (Napoleons brother) the Govenor (later King) of westfalia.
After the restauration of the absolute monarchy's, those civil advancements where removed from them.
The frustrations of the population reached it's boiling poiny in 1848 :

In the Frankfurter Pauls Church, germany's first republic was anounced.
Ministers and a Chancelor where elected.
It was in this time, that the german constitution was written and the german anthem born and performed.
Prussian troops with the help of bavarian troops defeated after many
bloody battles the republican army, led by a polish general.
Thousends of german officers and privates managed to escaped to the USA.
Where they 11 years later served with distinction in the Union Army.


Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
You mean like having what type of light bulb we can use shoved down our throats by government bureaucrats who think they know better than we how to spend our own money?
:
Where did I adress this issue ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
The difference between us is that I understand people will abuse state power;
:
Funny, and you really believe I don't ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
which is why we try so hard to prevent them from getting it in the first place.
It doesn't matter if they are so-called nobility or simply educated in the correct schools they will still try to dominate and control. There is no significant difference between the old nobility and modern statists. You have become what you hate. You support the state because it gives you power over your neighbors.
:
Democracy is a living matter, if we don't constantly engage it, and question our elected leaders, it will not survive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
Gee, America seems to have got civil law from Britain without even being conquered by France. Who'd have thunk continental Europe would be so backward? :
America declared the independend republic years before the french did,
and wrote their own democratic constitution. Britain had little to do with it.
It inspired the french revolution (Benjamin Franklyn).

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
At least I learned something in history class. When do you intend to start?
Okay, so please let it shine here.
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  #5  
Old 30 Jan 11, 11:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konzev View Post
There seem to be a lot of confusion, when europeans and americans discuss
liberalism. There seems to be a huge gap, by how americans consider liberals
and how europeans do.

Conservatives in your country equate all liberals as leftist .
Have you resolved that issue with your fellow conservatives ?
That is because the left has absconded with the term "liberal" when there is nothing liberal about them: They are all about more and more government control at every level.

Myself, I try not to call leftists "liberal" anymore but by more accurate terms such as statist or socialist.

Quote:
You americans always like to talk about the terror of the french revolutionaries and romanticise the Nobility.
Not wanting to discuss the terror and the hardship it brought upon his own subjects. In europe we don't choose what side we want to listen too, we listen to all sides of our history.
Since my mother's mother was a peasant born in Poland under the Prussian regime you will not get any such romanticization of the aristocracy from me. Nor will I ignore the fact that in both Europe and the US unelected (and thus unaccountable) bureaucrats are taking away freedoms and giving themselves perquisites not unlike the nobility of yore. You can listen to the nobles and modern aristocrats if you like, but their goals are dominance and their means transparent: get the citizenry "hooked" on government goodies. That is precisely why Otto Bismark began the welfare state: to make the populace dependent on government and thus less likely to revolt.

Quote:
The skill of a conducting a democratic state was lost with the ancient Greeks and Romans, when their empires vanished.
This is romanticizing two Mediterranean slave states as democracies when only a very tiny percentage of even their free men had the vote but most of their populations had no say whatsoever. It's a kernel, but not something worthy of emulation at the time but just another type of aristocracy.

Quote:
The french revolution started from scratch and it was not a pretty situation that unraveled. Neverthess the reaissance and birth of european democracy.
It was a horror that lasted 20 years. The birthplace(s) of European democracy were Great Britain, Holland, and the Netherlands.

Quote:
Democracy is a living matter, if we don't constantly engage it, and question our elected leaders, it will not survive.
On this statement we agree. That's why I don't understand why anyone who wants freedom to survive becomes a socialist. The greatest threat to freedom is always government; the larger the government the greater the threat.
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  #6  
Old 30 Jan 11, 20:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
That is because the left has absconded with the term "liberal" when there is nothing liberal about them: They are all about more and more government control at every level.
.
The "left" is such a broad spectrum, and I'm sure among them you might find parties that are for as small goverment as possible. Perhaps these didn't had a chance to rule a country yet, but history might play with this possibility in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
Myself, I try not to call leftists "liberal" anymore but by more accurate terms such as statist or socialist.
.
Thank you for clearing that up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
Since my mother's mother was a peasant born in Poland under the Prussian regime you will not get any such romanticization of the aristocracy from me.
.
Interesting, now we have some polishness in common, my brother Dieter is married for 22 years with a very beautyful Lady from Posnan, having 3 children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
Nor will I ignore the fact that in both Europe and the US unelected (and thus unaccountable) bureaucrats are taking away freedoms and giving themselves perquisites not unlike the nobility of yore.
.
But what would you do without those bureaucrats, don't they provide us with essential services ?
We do need them to get married, issueing passports, driverslicences,
vehicle license plates, building and maintaining streets, keep communities organized and a few more things. I agree with you to the point that they are often overpaid with too much benefits. But I wouldn't go as far as you do, in seeing a major danger in them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
You can listen to the nobles and modern aristocrats if you like, but their goals are dominance and their means transparent: get the citizenry "hooked" on government goodies.
.
There was one major difference between the beaurocreats of a nobility and the beaurocreats of a republic. The ones acting on behalf of the nobility
could do you in without recourse. In a republic you have do recourse via a
civil courts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post

That is precisely why Otto Bismark began the welfare state: to make the populace dependent on government and thus less likely to revolt.
.
The Reichs-Chancelor knew that the law of the old days (absolutism) would no longer work in an industrial modern society.
There was a funny episode when Minister Betmann-Hollweg asked the Reichs-Chancelor why he wanted Karl Marx to draft a Social insurance sytem for the Reich ?
And Fuerst Otto von Bismark answered: " I need the best experts I can get!"
Karl Marx being in England visiting the Industrialist Friederich Engels, politely
declined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
This is romanticizing two Mediterranean slave states as democracies when only a very tiny percentage of even their free men had the vote but most of their populations had no say whatsoever. It's a kernel, but not something worthy of emulation at the time but just another type of aristocracy.
.
I'm not gonna judge the first two democracies of human civilisation,
that is not my right nor position.
Too little historical evidence is left, to pass fair judgement .
Perhaps you have sources at your disposal that I don't have.
What do I really know ?
It's cheap doing that in hindsight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
It was a horror that lasted 20 years. The birthplace(s) of European democracy were Great Britain, Holland, and the Netherlands.
.
Holland, and the Netherlands:

I believe you meant Holland and Belgium (or the Low-countries).
Because Holland and the Netherland are one and the same country.
Like you would say Germany and Deutschland.

From 1810 - 1813, Holland was part of France, with the Code de Civil as
constitution. After the Congress of Vienna, the House of Orange resorted to restauration of Abbsolutism.
The Revolution of 1848 briefly reinstated the Code de Civil.
Like their german brothers in arms, the dutch ringleaders fled to America.
Some also making a name of themselves in the ACW.
A constitutional Monarchy made some concessions to the rising socialist movements, by allowing the landowners and capital holders to vote.
And finally in 1917 to allow a general vote. That was shortly followed by a new constitution that resembled in large parts the Code de Civil and the 1848 german constitution.

Great Britain

The earliest republic was under Oliver Cromwell from 1633 - 1658.
As a democracy it had a short live, even long before Oliver Cromwell crowned himself as the Lord Protector , he turned quickly into a paranoid and zealous dictator. It was one of England bloodiest period.
And caused an endless conflict with the Irish, after Cromwell annexed Ireland into the Republican Commonwealth. Several Irish Villages who put up stiff resistance, where raised to the ground, with all women and children killed.
After his death the restauration back to absolutism took effect.
Oliver Cromwell was dug out of his Grave and hung for the public to see.
Where he remaind displayed several years.
Very civilised indeed.

It took a crazy King, King George to impose a new Parliament to rule Britania.
The british subjects of today, could credit Queen Victoria for converting
the Dominion into a Constitutional Monarchy.
The Queen was well aware of the challenging industrial times ahead.
But this process was slow, bloody and violent.
Not to mention the many colonial wars being fought, foreign cultures destroyed and subdued, the irish treated as 3rd class human beings, if they survived their many struggles, there was a social rage sometimes raising to civil war like uprisings. Many Miner uprising where put down on the point of the bajonnet, later via Machine-Guns. The scottish struggle also did not end with the battle of Culloden.
You see, the deeper I dig, the more I'm gonna find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
On this statement we agree. That's why I don't understand why anyone who wants freedom to survive becomes a socialist.
.
I'm a business man, no socialist.
But I believe that a good political democracy needs a little bit of socialism.
Many of my customers are welfare recipients. They not only keep the Liquer industry in business, but also my movie retail shop.
They get enough programs to retrain for modern craft skills, find part jobs in the service industry. We don't need any Walled Communities like in your country. I don't need to hide my modest lifestyle. Our crime rate is very low.
And one good thing about them, their welfare money goes right back into the economy, into businesses like mine, and not ending up in OFF SHORE accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
The greatest threat to freedom is always government; the larger the government the greater the threat.
This sentence beggs the question : "Are you an Anarchist ?"
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  #7  
Old 31 Jan 11, 19:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konzev
Holland, and the Netherlands:
I believe you meant Holland and Belgium (or the Low-countries).
Because Holland and the Netherland are one and the same country.
Like you would say Germany and Deutschland.
Perhaps you forgot Belgium and Luxembourg were both part of the Dutch Republic before they split off? It was the period during which it was part of the Dutch Republic and which the modern idea of democracy formed I was referring to. I should have been more clear.

Quote:
This sentence begs the question : "Are you an Anarchist ?"
No; absolutely not. The only thing worse than too much government is no government; which becomes might makes right. I simply understand that government is at best a necessary evil; but it is still necessary. “That government is best which governs least.” We need government to keep the peace, enforce contracts, respond to emergencies beyond the scope of local authorities, enforce civil rights, defend our borders from foreign invasion, etc. There are plenty of things which would be legitimate if performed at the state or local governmental levels, such as welfare and education, which are flatly unconstitutional as done by the US government.

That still makes around 75% of all current federal programs illegitimate. I'm not going to hold my breath until they're discontinued, however.
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Old 31 Jan 11, 20:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
Perhaps you forgot Belgium and Luxembourg were both part of the Dutch Republic before they split off? It was the period during which it was part of the Dutch Republic and which the modern idea of democracy formed I was referring to. I should have been more clear.
It's allright, I thought you made a typo.
And I have the whole story of how our civil laws evolved from Wikipedia,
by just typing in "CODE DE CIVIL"

And a little excerpt from it, you might find very interesting:

Meanwhile, the French Napoleonic code (Code Civil) was enacted in 1804 after only a few years of preparation, but it was a child of the French Revolution, which is strongly reflected by its content. The French code was the most influential one because it was introduced in many countries standing under French occupation during the Napoleonic Wars. In particular, countries such as Italy, the Benelux countries, Spain, Portugal (with the Civil Code of 1867, later replaced by the Civil Code of 1966, which is strongly influenced by the German BGB), the Latin American countries, the province of Quebec, the state of Louisiana in the United States, and all other former French colonies which base their civil law systems to a strong extent on the Napoleonic Code.

and here is the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_code



Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
No; absolutely not. The only thing worse than too much government is no government; which becomes might makes right. I simply understand that government is at best a necessary evil; but it is still necessary. “That government is best which governs least.” We need government to keep the peace, enforce contracts, respond to emergencies beyond the scope of local authorities, enforce civil rights, defend our borders from foreign invasion, etc. There are plenty of things which would be legitimate if performed at the state or local governmental levels, such as welfare and education, which are flatly unconstitutional as done by the US government.

That still makes around 75% of all current federal programs illegitimate. I'm not going to hold my breath until they're discontinued, however.
I'm glad that our concept of a wanton Goverment is almost identical.
I wouldn't want any more or less of it.
Overall there is room for debate, that requires an active democratic participation. I would say complacency, ignorance and other human fallacies
have not been stressed enough.
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Old 31 Jan 11, 22:07
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It's allright, I thought you made a typo.
And I have the whole story of how our civil laws evolved from Wikipedia,
by just typing in "CODE DE CIVIL"

And a little excerpt from it, you might find very interesting:

Meanwhile, the French Napoleonic code (Code Civil) was enacted in 1804 after only a few years of preparation, but it was a child of the French Revolution, which is strongly reflected by its content. The French code was the most influential one because it was introduced in many countries standing under French occupation during the Napoleonic Wars. In particular, countries such as Italy, the Benelux countries, Spain, Portugal (with the Civil Code of 1867, later replaced by the Civil Code of 1966, which is strongly influenced by the German BGB), the Latin American countries, the province of Quebec, the state of Louisiana in the United States, and all other former French colonies which base their civil law systems to a strong extent on the Napoleonic Code.
The inferiority of the Code Napoleonic to English civil law leaves me unenthused about claiming it as a plus for the French Revolution. Guilty until proven innocent doesn't get points with me; especially since that code had to arrive escorted by invading armies. Is it better than nothing; better than what they had in place? Absolutely. Would those parts of Europe who adopted the Napoleonic Code have been better off if they'd selected the English system? Damn right they would have.

Quote:
I'm glad that our concept of a wanton Goverment is almost identical.
I wouldn't want any more or less of it.
Overall there is room for debate, that requires an active democratic participation. I would say complacency, ignorance and other human fallacies have not been stressed enough.
As a rule human beings are not concerned enough what their rulers are doing; and it is this tendency which has enabled so many tyrannies over the millennia.

I don't give a damn how altruistic socialists of whatever stripe may be (or at least claim to be), in the end that level of control will always lead to a lower standard of living for the people, less freedom, and domination by a ruling class. If not by the current generation, then by the next. Both the American and English systems of government are based on restraint of central power. We need to remember why that is.
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Old 01 Feb 11, 00:36
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Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
I don't give a damn how altruistic socialists of whatever stripe may be (or at least claim to be), in the end that level of control will always lead to a lower standard of living for the people, less freedom, and domination by a ruling class. If not by the current generation, then by the next. Both the American and English systems of government are based on restraint of central power. We need to remember why that is.
I think we are at the point now where that very concept, and anything else, will be regarded as Western Decadence/corruption/whatever by anyone in the world that listens to the Imams or their Marxist buddies.
I think it's too late for them, all of them, but it's just as well. There are too many people in the world anyway.
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Old 01 Feb 11, 10:46
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Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
The inferiority of the Code Napoleonic to English civil law leaves me unenthused about claiming it as a plus for the French Revolution. Guilty until proven innocent doesn't get points with me; especially since that code had to arrive escorted by invading armies. Is it better than nothing; better than what they had in place? Absolutely. Would those parts of Europe who adopted the Napoleonic Code have been better off if they'd selected the English system? Damn right they would have.

As a rule human beings are not concerned enough what their rulers are doing; and it is this tendency which has enabled so many tyrannies over the millennia.

I don't give a damn how altruistic socialists of whatever stripe may be (or at least claim to be), in the end that level of control will always lead to a lower standard of living for the people, less freedom, and domination by a ruling class. If not by the current generation, then by the next. Both the American and English systems of government are based on restraint of central power. We need to remember why that is.


You are a class act Treb.
Your reply reminds me of one of Monty Phyton's Flying Circus numbers:

"Mommy why do I have to learn this stupid pone number ? (05423 2135).
"It should have been 01111 2222"
"It's such an uncool number"

You must be a lover of the absurd like Terry Glilliam, or you must have driven your teachers nuts.
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Old 01 Feb 11, 21:26
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Originally Posted by Konzev View Post

You are a class act Treb.
Your reply reminds me of one of Monty Phyton's Flying Circus numbers:

"Mommy why do I have to learn this stupid pone number ? (05423 2135).
"It should have been 01111 2222"
"It's such an uncool number"

You must be a lover of the absurd like Terry Glilliam, or you must have driven your teachers nuts.
I question almost everything. I just don't pretend Wikipedia articles constitute research.

You weren't even astute enough to see the most important observation in my previous comment; which is that the Napoleonic Code was brought and imposed by war and presumes guilt unless innocence is proven. Even you might be bright enough to recognize you live in a country whose laws are based on the English system; or that you're going to lose a lot of arguments if you use the same philosophy when debating.
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Old 02 Feb 11, 00:30
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Originally Posted by trebuchet View Post
I question almost everything. I just don't pretend Wikipedia articles constitute research.

You weren't even astute enough to see the most important observation in my previous comment; which is that the Napoleonic Code was brought and imposed by war and presumes guilt unless innocence is proven. Even you might be bright enough to recognize you live in a country whose laws are based on the English system; or that you're going to lose a lot of arguments if you use the same philosophy when debating.
Well......
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So by conserved energy (Conserved = stored) you can have perpetual motion But conserved energy also depleats at usage right ?
Motion on a level road is resisted by Gravity, isn't it ?
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Old 02 Feb 11, 14:54
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Well......
Well if this makes you tickle, enjoy it !
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Old 04 Feb 11, 12:33
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The inferiority of the Code Napoleonic to English civil law leaves me unenthused about claiming it as a plus for the French Revolution. Guilty until proven innocent doesn't get points with me; especially since that code had to arrive escorted by invading armies. Is it better than nothing; better than what they had in place? Absolutely. Would those parts of Europe who adopted the Napoleonic Code have been better off if they'd selected the English system? Damn right they would have.
by a ruling class. If not by the current generation, then by the next. Both the American and English systems of government are based on restraint of central power. We need to remember why that is.
You make an error. The civil code is not the penal code. The civil code was very "modern" because it was at the oposit of feodality. It gave to continental europe clear rules about the day to day life and problems. This is also a unification of the laws, good for trade and toward modern state. Also Napoleon gave an administration to run with the code : for exemple to build roads and bridges, a Préfet (administrative governor) in the départements (between county and region size).

For sure the blunder of Napoleon is to to have build a dicture and an Empire rather than giving the République and liberty to Europe. But the french administration became a model (Prussia for exemple) and gave a step for Europe toward modernity.
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