Haven't they always been just Gypsies? Gotta love this PC crap: first we're this, now we've changed our minds and we're actually what we were before. Do as we say, or we'll complain to Obama.
So it's PC (a classic strawman) to refer to an ethnic group with a label that isn't used as ethnic slur or associated with damaging stereotypes?
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So it's PC (a classic strawman) to refer to an ethnic group with a label that isn't used as ethnic slur or associated with damaging stereotypes?
"Roma" means "man" (as in "human") in their language and as an ethnonym makes little sense outside its relation of opposites with "gajo" ("non-human" or the Gypsy variant of "goy"). So if you think Gypsy is a label used as ethnic slur then Roma is an ethnonym that stems from a stereotypical view of the world too (roma - gajo).
That's weak; that's like arguing that being called a "cracker" is just as bad if not worse than the n-word. The word gajo is obscure, it isn't nearly as harmful as the word "gypsy" the word gypsy is also inaccurate since they are not Egyptian in origin.
__________________
"They're inviting us to defeat them! We must oblige them!"
-Baron Munchausen
"Ah, 'tis midsummer madness, the music is my temples, the hot blood of youth! Come, Kapellmeister, let the violas throb. My regiment leaves at dawn!"
-Groucho Marx
Last edited by The Highwayman; 16 Dec 10 at 05:55..
So it's PC (a classic strawman) to refer to an ethnic group with a label that isn't used as ethnic slur or associated with damaging stereotypes?
I see Gypsies damaging their own stereotype every year in the summer season. Old, young, males, females, every possible type. They do not do it individually but in large groups and collectively. If you don't know how it happens, I can enlighten you. I can stand by my words and answer to the court for the cases I've personally witnessed.
Gypsy is a historical name for this group, not associated with any calls for persecution. When the Gypsies renounce a certain part of their ethnic historical legacy which they still practice very actively, I'll call them anything they want, like Elves or Heavenly People.
I see Gypsies damaging their own stereotype every year in the summer season. Old, young, males, females, every possible type. They do not do it individually but in large groups and collectively. If you don't know how it happens, I can enlighten you. I can stand by my words and answer to the court for the cases I've personally witnessed.
Gypsy is a historical name for this group, not associated with any calls for persecution. When the Gypsies renounce a certain part of their ethnic historical legacy which they still practice very actively, I'll call them anything they want, like Elves or Heavenly People.
The rant above is a heavily biased opinion, not a fact based argument; anyone can cherry pick negative examples of an ethnic group and then use those examples to demonize the group in question. By your own logic (see your quote below) you are a bigot.
"As I said, if someone selectively posts exclusively negative examples of one's nation representatives or historical episodes, he is a bigot."
__________________
"They're inviting us to defeat them! We must oblige them!"
-Baron Munchausen
"Ah, 'tis midsummer madness, the music is my temples, the hot blood of youth! Come, Kapellmeister, let the violas throb. My regiment leaves at dawn!"
-Groucho Marx
The rant above is a heavily biased opinion, not a fact based argument; anyone can cherry pick negative examples of an ethnic group and then use those examples to demonize the group in question. By your own logic (see your quote below) you are a bigot.
"As I said, if someone selectively posts exclusively negative examples of one's nation representatives or historical episodes, he is a bigot."
Tell me where I accused all of them. The ones that flock to big cities in search of easy fortune from stealing make up a huge number. Unless they clean their house, the negative stereotype will persist. This refers to many groups, Russians as well.
My remark you've quoted was aimed at people practising bigotry for the sake of it, who faced no negative effects from the groups they bash and whose knowledge is based on assumptions and propaganda. As for the Gypsies, their representatives practice such trades massively, collectively and in many places all over the world. Both I and many of the people I know witnessed this and there's no fascism in saying such things happen, unless you're a PC retard. And this is admitted by some of their people who broke the "bonds of silence".
That's weak; that's like arguing that being called a "cracker" is just as bad if not worse than the n-word. The word gajo is obscure, it isn't nearly as harmful as the word "gypsy" the word gypsy is also inaccurate since they are not Egyptian in origin.
I don't know what kind of experience you have with gypsies. The word "gajo" is still used extensively by them in Hungary (I guess in Romania as well) not just in their own language but when they speak Hungarian as well. There is no way that I will use the term "Roma" when talking about them and exclude myself from the human race at the same time.
Also I wonder if any other nation would be granted the right to be called by a different name once the original became tarnished. It was mentioned before that Russians have to face negative stereotypes (same applies for a lot of other nations... Polish, Romanian, Hungarian, Ukranian, Italian, etc...). Yet I didn't notice any intention from anyone to start calling them by another name to be politically correct.
I'm Hungarian and I always be Hungarian. If there are negative stereotypes about us the only way I can fight that is by getting people to judge me by my own actions. Forcing people to change the way they address a nation won't solve the problem.
I've known and seen a lot of gypsies in my life and I'm afraid there were only a few who were decent, hard working, honest people. And those actually never had a problem with being called gypsy.
Tell me where I accused all of them. The ones that flock to big cities in search of easy fortune from stealing make up a huge number. Unless they clean their house, the negative stereotype will persist. This refers to many groups, Russians as well.
Then by that twisted logic we should accept racism directed at groups with criminal histories, which would include most if not all of the European ethnic groups, the Romani are no more responsible for "gyps" than I am for James Bulger's actions.
Quote:
My remark you've quoted was aimed at people practising bigotry for the sake of it, who faced no negative effects from the groups they bash and whose knowledge is based on assumptions and propaganda.
That description fits your views about Romani people perfectly.
Quote:
As for the Gypsies, their representatives practice such trades massively, collectively and in many places all over the world.
In that case you should embrace anti-Russian racism due to enormity of ROC.
Quote:
Both I and many of the people I know witnessed this and there's no fascism in saying such things happen, unless you're a PC retard. And this is admitted by some of their people who broke the "bonds of silence".
False, anti-"gypsy" racism is alive and well; there is a great deal of fascism in anti-Romani sentiment.
__________________
"They're inviting us to defeat them! We must oblige them!"
-Baron Munchausen
"Ah, 'tis midsummer madness, the music is my temples, the hot blood of youth! Come, Kapellmeister, let the violas throb. My regiment leaves at dawn!"
-Groucho Marx
s no way that I will use the term "Roma" when talking about them and exclude myself from the human race at the same time.
Most websites define "gajo" merely as someone who doesn't belong to their ethnic group, arguing that we should label them "gypsies" because of the word gajo is about as absurd as calling American Indians "redskins" because certain tribes refer themselves as "the people" and if it's so awful to call them Roma we can always refer to them as "Romani."
__________________
"They're inviting us to defeat them! We must oblige them!"
-Baron Munchausen
"Ah, 'tis midsummer madness, the music is my temples, the hot blood of youth! Come, Kapellmeister, let the violas throb. My regiment leaves at dawn!"
-Groucho Marx
Most websites define "gajo" merely as someone who doesn't belong to their ethnic group, arguing that we should label them "gypsies" because of the word gajo is about as absurd as calling American Indians "redskins" because certain tribes refer themselves as "the people" and if it's so awful to call them Roma we can always refer to them as "Romani."
I think you didn't get my point. Romani is closely related to Roma. And it's not mainly the word that I have a problem with but the concept of being expected to change the name used to identify an ethnic group. They have been called by the local equivalent of gypsy (cigany/tzigan/etc) for centuries in countries where they appeared in large numbers.
I think Political Correctness is the one of the biggest mistakes the last few decades came up with. It forces people not to speak what they think and puts a shroud on problems. But they won't disappear if we don't see them and talk about them.
Wol293 - Don't pay attention to The Highwayman. Even though he has never been around Gypsies and doesn't know how most operate he knows better than those of us that live around them because he has Google.
Are there good Gypsies? Of course. Have I seen any in my extensive time spent traveling and living in Eastern Europe... Maybe one once. If some activist group wants to clean up the image of their people, they should start by policing their own first, once they are no longer large groups of Gypsies making a livelihood through banditry, especially in countries they are not passport holders of, then they can start their 'don't treat us like criminals and call us this not this' campaign. Problem is they don't want to stop the issue that causes problems for them. They want to continue to have a vast majority of them live like bandits making a living through petty crimes and tell people they just have to accept it. No dice.
Please do some more Google searches or whatever you do. I'm going to continue to shove Gypsies that try to steal my wallet or whatever onto the ground - which is one good thing about them, they are typically not violent and dislike confrontation, so a little shove or a bit of yelling makes them move on to an easier target.
Wol293 - Don't pay attention to The Highwayman. Even though he has never been around Gypsies and doesn't know how most operate he knows better than those of us that live around them because he has Google.
Are there good Gypsies? Of course. Have I seen any in my extensive time spent traveling and living in Eastern Europe... Maybe one once. If some activist group wants to clean up the image of their people, they should start by policing their own first, once they are no longer large groups of Gypsies making a livelihood through banditry, especially in countries they are not passport holders of, then they can start their 'don't treat us like criminals and call us this not this' campaign. Problem is they don't want to stop the issue that causes problems for them. They want to continue to have a vast majority of them live like bandits making a living through petty crimes and tell people they just have to accept it. No dice.
Please do some more Google searches or whatever you do. I'm going to continue to shove Gypsies that try to steal my wallet or whatever onto the ground - which is one good thing about them, they are typically not violent and dislike confrontation, so a little shove or a bit of yelling makes them move on to an easier target.
Good 'ole Jello said it all about people like him:
That's weak; that's like arguing that being called a "cracker" is just as bad if not worse than the n-word. The word gajo is obscure, it isn't nearly as harmful as the word "gypsy" the word gypsy is also inaccurate since they are not Egyptian in origin.
The first problem is that their ethnonym has slowly morphed into looking very similar to our (Romanians') ethnonym. At first they wanted to be called Rroma/Rommany then Roma/Romany, now Roma/Romani. Then they also use Romanies/Romanis, Roms, Romane. This issue could be taken lightly at first sight but look at the recent name spat between Greece and Macedonia.
The second problem is that I don't think any government or institution should ban the word Gypsy and impose the word Rom/Roma/Romani. The world's ethnonyms haven't been imposed through state decree. If the word Gypsy is used is a discriminatory context then fine, the relevant bodies should react, but to ban and to try to deter the use of the word itself is idiotic.
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But what's the symbol at the 4:40 Looks like Chaos undivided from WH40K. 
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