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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Warfare by Other Means

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Warfare by Other Means Economics, demographics, cultural, technological, and other factors that have affected the course of history.

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  #16  
Old 04 Dec 10, 10:09
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Skimming through the literature it seems to me 98% of cyber warfare is data theft. ie: China's government sposored efforts at 'attacks' have been fairly lame. Conversely efforts by Chinese organizations to ferret out information, from business organizations more than governments, are much further advanced.

At the personnel level this boils down to identitiy theft. Having your machine clogged with uneeded cookies, or maybe a virus or zombie program is inconvienent, but the cost to the owner is realtively minor. Indentity theft is usually costly both in money & time to eradicate the problem. Most folks are ineffective at spotting a theft in a timely manner and also at taking rapid remidial action. It appears to me that i you have more than two financial accounts of any type; credit card, mortage, checking, car loan, ect.. you need to keep a easy to reach file of emergency information of customer service contacts, account numbers, ect... for every account you do buisness with. The appropriate law enforcement contact would be needed as well. A copy of this needs to travel with you on the road. Its tough to have your accounts frozen when two days away from your desk & not have the necessary information at hand.
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  #17  
Old 04 Dec 10, 16:08
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Well there have been some semi-serious cyber attacks.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007...tories3.russia
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  #18  
Old 04 Dec 10, 22:31
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Remember, the stuff we can read is the tip of iceberg and most of us don't have time to read what's out there anyways. As a small example of what's available, check this out:

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...c=GetTRDoc.pdf

http://www.nartv.org/mirror/shadows-in-the-cloud.pdf

Last edited by boomer400; 04 Dec 10 at 22:34..
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  #19  
Old 15 Feb 11, 13:27
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Cyberwarfare

I'm not sure if we have a dedicated area for cyberwar. If we do, LMK and I'll be glad to move this thread.

Anybody remember the Stuxnet virus we used to screw with the Iranians nuke program?

Well, it turns out some black hat hackers have been messing around with it, and it could be on its way to hack a PC near you in the near future.

Quote:
"As an attacker you need to understand how something works. The better you understand how it works the easier it is to build something similar that servers the same purpose," Gregg explained. The "decompiled" code the group made available is in that sense akin to a recipe book for disaster, he said.

"With the right tools -- and these guys have shown themselves more than once to be a fairly technical bunch of individuals -- then it gives others a cookbook to start modifying," he told FoxNews.com.
Source: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...#ixzz1E3NYK882
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  #20  
Old 15 Feb 11, 23:17
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http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...08#post1653408
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Old 16 Feb 11, 09:05
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Thanks, Boomer!
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  #22  
Old 16 Feb 11, 11:44
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Thread moved and merged.
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  #23  
Old 16 Feb 11, 13:12
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whats funny is how little the story played in mainstream media

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...#ixzz17oashQAs
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  #24  
Old 16 Feb 11, 16:41
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Mainstream media is owned by conglomerates who work with and at the behest of the government. ATT, Verizon, Sprint, NewsCorp, Liberty, GE, CBS, TimeWarner, et al. are well in cahoots with the gov in terms of making things easy for each other.
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Old 17 Feb 11, 11:24
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That and it is slightly complicated. The MSM assume we are mostly morons who can't concentrate for more than 30 seconds at a stretch.
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Old 18 Feb 11, 08:28
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Originally Posted by GCoyote View Post
That and it is slightly complicated. The MSM assume we are mostly morons who can't concentrate for more than 30 seconds at a stretch.
Did you say something?
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Old 21 Oct 11, 06:44
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When Stuxnet was discovered, it was proclaimed as the “first shot in a new cyber war.” This week, a comparable computer malware, dubbed Duqu, has been found in European commercial control computer systems. I read this here: Duqu virus uses Stuxnet DNA to mine industrial data. It appears that this malware might be a second attack in this virtual war.
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Old 21 Oct 11, 20:59
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First attack? Second? My take is cyberwarfare of this sort has been going on for two decades or more. I recall back in the 1980s when the military desktops became commonly linked on the internet we had to listen to classified briefs about... Apparently Russian spies were busy stealing our pay data & installing virus on the S4's desk top PC.
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Old 22 Oct 11, 18:45
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I'm always questioning when the term cyberwarfare came into being; William Gibson is credited as coining the term "cyberspace" in the early '80s so "cyberwarfare" certainly could be pinned as existing from that time on. And due to the recent uptick in public awareness of it, I've pondered on what cyberwarfare represents in general. But, obviously, electronic espionage/warfare in a variety of forms existed well before that.

For instance, one could say that Ultra Enigma machines were a primitive form of cyberwarfare. The machines were electro-mechanical; in a way, they were sort of electropunk hardware with encryption/decryption built-in. Certainly, they made a tremendous contribution to the war effort generally ignored by most people. Same goes for Magic-Purple-IBM intercepts. And of course electronic warfare in front line operations has existed since electricity and comms has been around.

My thoughts are that before the late '80s and early '90s, most electronic warfare occurred as espionage or as front-line combat (classic EW or ECM) . Even though DARPA and the Arpanet/Internet existed, before then realistically most activity was more of an eavesdropping affair (although I suspect the CIA/KGB/etc. had some operations more in the black vein). It wasn't until the networks became more consistent and globalized that "Cyberwarfare" was possible as a daily event planned strategically through a network infrastructure, rather than a single operation by a team to a small piece of infrastructure. So in a way, cyber-espionage was/is/continues to be a transitional mode for electronic implementation of attack methods. But it does not necessarily represent cyberwarfare.

On the other hand, I kind of mark the existence of Compuserve (1969) as a time marker where (at least on the civilian market), the existence of "networking" availability makes true cyberwarfare actually possible. However, since it was by and large a commercial operation at first, it certainly brings into play the possibility of industrial espionage, if not industrial warfare. There's precious little information on that so it's hard to generate much awareness on that. There certainly is plenty of information on Phone Phreaking (around since the '50s) but it's not what I would call Cyberwarfare (where 2 or more parties engage in damage over networks over an extended amount of time). Also, CServe really didn't get internationalized until the early '80s. One could have (before then) proxy attacked from within the US using continental US infrastructure but that I suspect wouldn't have been much beyond espionage in and of itself.

Anyways, just some ponderings on my part.

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Old 22 Oct 11, 21:59
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Earliest I can recall the concept of cyber attack, in a public/non classified venue would be a late 1980s novel. The term was not used in the story if I recall correctly, but the plot revolved around a Soviet mole attempting to crash the US telephone system through a internet attack. I think I still have that paperback on the shelf here.
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