Was the IL-2 "black death" really that bad?

[Roadkiller]

Originally Posted by Hetzer 15

I'm pretty sure it was in the squadron/signal publication on the IL-2, it tol in there on combat operations with it, and on why it was only built in small numbers. Planes like the ME-109 or HE-111, or JU-88, etc had more of a priority then this plane...one of the reasons it had junk engines. One other reason for low production, is the twin engine design and time on the production line. But these are just a few of the reasons...

??

I was asking where and how the analysis was conducted that led to German pilots being told to be "selective" because they were achieving multiple killing hits on armour targets, not IL-2 data, and not aircraft production priorities. Sorry if I was unclear.

Or are you saying some sort of German after action analysis is quoted in a squadron/signal publication?

[NagaSadow]

IIRC "Hs 129 Panzerjäger!" by Martin Pegg contains some reference about that subject aswell. But it has been a few years since i read it.

[Hetzer 15]

Originally Posted by Roadkiller

??

I was asking where and how the analysis was conducted that led to German pilots being told to be "selective" because they were achieving multiple killing hits on armour targets, not IL-2 data, and not aircraft production priorities. Sorry if I was unclear.

Or are you saying some sort of German after action analysis is quoted in a squadron/signal publication?

German after action analysis is quoted in it...other than that I can't help you....

[flash]

Originally Posted by NagaSadow

Hs 123?
Hs 129?

Yes,how could I forget them.One could be remembered for its stark ugliness and the other for its beauty,I think you know which!
The 123 was in front line service for 8 years or so,a beautiful and relatively easily maintained aircraft.
The 129 on the other hand................................

[hairog]

OVER FIELDS OF FIRE: Flying the Sturmovik in Action on the Eastern Front 1942-45 (Soviet Memories of War)
Anna Timofeeva-Egorova (Author)




Very good book. She tells it like it was. Very interesting insight into Soviet life before the war. Great personal story. Loved it.

Available in Kindle as well.

[Salinator]

Originally Posted by The Exorcist

Being a fantastic shot in indeed a trait of highly successful aces, more so that being a great pilot. The fact that Hartman scored so few victories in his first 6 months of combat, and that he was shot down 16 times during the war, suggests that he was a slow learner.

I'll bite just for fun.

First six months spent learning and flying as wingman might have something to do with a low score? Hartmann broke in at a time when the fighter arm was rich in experience and season pilots.

Hartmann was never shot down by an enemy aircraft. He did crash land fourteen times in combat and at least once when not in combat. His first crash was in a Stuka because some idiot thought that fighter pilots being transferred would also serve to pilot the transfer of replacement planes in the process. So what they never flew that type? His first victory as a Sturmovik which also took him down as he flew through the debris. All of his crashes were due to mechanical failure or debris ingestion.

Slow learner he was not. He was a licensed glider pilot by age 14 and he became instructor at age 15. He was surrounded by veterans and learned. Ony a few Luftwaffe aces are known are marksmen, he was not one of them. Like the vast majority of German aces, his tally was based on his intellect of stalking and then piloting skills to get in tight and hold fire until with 20meters!

[Hetzer 15]

Hartmann, would open fire at a crazy close distance, "when the target takes up the entire windscreen..." - He would then open fire with all weapons. This tactic served him very well. His black tulip nose paint job, was his trademark, and Soviet pilots would know who they were dealing with.

IIRC, he disliked the 20mm wing guns as they made the aircraft to unweildy and if one malfunctioned, as they offen did, his aim would be thrown off from the one-gun recoil.