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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > World War II

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World War II Discuss WW2. .

View Poll Results: What was in your opinion the worst military blunder of the War?
The Advance of British and French Armies to the Low Countries - 1940 5 6.94%
Sedan (failure to recognize and stop Breakthrough) - 1940 6 8.33%
Fighting (or losing) the Battle of Britain - 1940 6 8.33%
Exorbitant amount of resources given to Bomber Command - 1940-1945 2 2.78%
Soviet Placement of Troops on Axis Border - 1941 9 12.50%
Pearl Harbor (failure to sink US Carriers and/or to launch a 3rd wave) - 1941 16 22.22%
Inability to fix MkXIV Torpedo troubles and making Sub-building not a priority (PTO) - 1941-1943 1 1.39%
Singapore - 1942 6 8.33%
Fall Blau - 1942 7 9.72%
Midway - 1942 0 0%
Dieppe Landing - 1942 2 2.78%
Kursk -1943 3 4.17%
Rapido River Crossing (Monte Cassino) - 1944 1 1.39%
Failure on D-Day to unleash the Panzers -1944 6 8.33%
Operation Market Garden - 1944 2 2.78%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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  #391  
Old 19 Feb 14, 15:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Fraser View Post
You might want to check out The Seven Sisters, by Anthony Sampson. The oil industry (outside the USSR) was completely controlled by the seven major companies during this period, none of whom had any interest in Libyan oil. Italy, on its own, had none of the technology necessary for exploration or production. Moreover, before the war there was a large surplus of oil in international markets, with new supply emerging in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, making such a project uneconomical and undesirable.

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The technology could have been acquired - for a price. Italy , and esp. big Bro Germany, had the ability to reproduce it.

Mussolini, by 1935, was past his 'best buy' date. I agree that with peacetime sweet light crude oil @1937 at 1.05 a barrel, foreign oil was cheap. by June of 1940, the Royal navy had upped the cost of shipping, to put it mildly.

In 1952, the first British drillers in Lybia kept hitting fresh water in the Nubian sandstone. Even as late as the summer of 1940, a wise move would have been to push narrow gauge rail lines into the Sirte Basin and drill for it.

In 1945-46, Hermann Goring claimed that the failure to exploit north Africa's resources was the biggest blunder the Axis ever made.
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  #392  
Old 19 Feb 14, 16:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Fraser View Post
You might want to check out The Seven Sisters, by Anthony Sampson. The oil industry (outside the USSR) was completely controlled by the seven major companies during this period, none of whom had any interest in Libyan oil. Italy, on its own, had none of the technology necessary for exploration or production. Moreover, before the war there was a large surplus of oil in international markets, with new supply emerging in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, making such a project uneconomical and undesirable.

Regards
Scott Fraser
Hence Count Ciano telling Hitler and Goering that Italy would not be ready for war till about 1943. If only he had kept to that!

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  #393  
Old 19 Feb 14, 16:21
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Hermann was talking nonsens : it all would be a waste: all the oil installations would be lost if the British were advancing ;besides ,Italy had not the means to exploit,transport,refine the oil and bring him back to NA.

AND,if the oil arrived back in Tripoli,he was not at the front :how would the Italians transport all this oil to the front,some 1000 km far away .
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  #394  
Old 19 Feb 14, 19:00
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Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
Hermann was talking nonsens : it all would be a waste: all the oil installations would be lost if the British were advancing ;besides ,Italy had not the means to exploit,transport,refine the oil and bring him back to NA.

AND,if the oil arrived back in Tripoli,he was not at the front :how would the Italians transport all this oil to the front,some 1000 km far away .
I started a what if on this... it was a 'huge military blunder'- perhaps the biggest of the war.
Herman Goering had some crackpot geologists on his personal staff. the one who had him convinced in 1939 that huge oil deposits under layered Poland deserves a thread of his own.

In the 1930's Il Duce was showboating around the med and East Africa instead of doing what made sense: Building narrow gauge rail- and drilling the territory he already had.
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  #395  
Old 20 Feb 14, 05:18
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There were oil deposits in eastern Poland - they just weren't very big. And after the Fourth Partition, they were in the Soviet zone.
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  #396  
Old 20 Feb 14, 06:57
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How Herrmann kept his job..

Quote:
Originally Posted by broderickwells View Post
There were oil deposits in eastern Poland - they just weren't very big. And after the Fourth Partition, they were in the Soviet zone.
I found a reference once in a Polish Journal to a speech HG gave in December 1939, where he claimed that a German could find a thousand barrels of oil where a Pole had found one.....

Mussolini's little empire did some interesting stuff. Adoph Galland apparently agreed with Herman's 'north African concept' in 1946, but said that Goring cut and ran whenever the Feurher got irritated.

Oil people tell me that a lot of exploration in the 1930's was
" I bet there's oil there, because my competitor wildcatted some five miles away."
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