HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Forum Resources > The Barracks

Notices and Announcements

The Barracks For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Members can retire from the serious discussions elsewhere on the forums...and relax here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06 Dec 17, 22:21
MonsterZero's Avatar
MonsterZero MonsterZero is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 11,154
MonsterZero has achieved enlightenment [1200+] MonsterZero has achieved enlightenment [1200+] MonsterZero has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
MonsterZero has achieved enlightenment [1200+] MonsterZero has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Question Been Thinking About Interstellar Travel

Been thinking about interstellar travel a lot and watching all kinds of shows on YouTube.

The consensus seems to be that humans will never travel to the stars with human crews, as shown in sci-fi films. Simply not practical.

Mars will be our final frontier, because Mars is the last destination we can colonize as a practical endeavor that can be organized and financed without the whole planet going broke. Still, it will be the most expensive investment in the history of our planet.

Beyond Mars, exploration of the Solar System will be done using machines and instruments.

Sending humans to the stars is just too risky because of the intense dangers of open space, such as radiation and collisions with debris.

In addition, there are ethical issues with sending humans on possibly a one-way-trip that may take decades, or perhaps centuries.

However, Commander Data can go! He will not suffer a mental breakdown in the loneliness of space, and will not suffer any biological consequences of being in such a hostile environment.

So, the future of space exploration will be entrusted to cyborgs in my opinion. They are our astronauts of the future. And if we want to make them human in appearance, for sentimental reasons, that can be arranged too.

Your thoughts? Agree or disagree?

__________________

"Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
--Frederick II, King of Prussia
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 07 Dec 17, 05:59
MarkV's Avatar
MarkV MarkV is offline
General of the Forums
UK
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Tenbury Wells
Posts: 12,771
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
The time dilation effect as a ship approaches the speed of light might make it possible for humans to make the trip - one way. The big problem is not getting up to that sort of speed we know how to do that, even if we haven't yet the technology. It's slowing down when we get there.
__________________
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07 Dec 17, 18:04
G David Bock's Avatar
G David Bock G David Bock is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Real Name: G David Bock
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bellingham, Washington
Posts: 15,537
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] G David Bock has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Topic has been examined back and forth in many threads found in subforums; "Science" and "Science Fiction"; I'll post some links in next few days as time allows ...

Main consideration for NOW, is that we Humans barely have a grasp/guage on how to do the inter-planetary Thing, let alone what will work and what won't. Biggest factor learned over the past 5-7 decades is that "robot" doesn't have to "simulate" human form and structure and that "robot"/Remote Devices have near geometric value in survey and exploration as a precursor to human "boots on the ground" ~ which are the fine-tune of exploration~exploitation of "Space".

When humans are ready decades to centuries from now of entering the "Inter-Stellar Stage" we will find ourselves going to other Star/Planet Systems (SPS) and it would help to have our "Inter-Planetary" 'Act' together first ... IMO ...
__________________
Whiskey for my men, and beer for my horses.
TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
Bock's First Law of History: The Past shapes the Present, which forms the Future. *
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07 Dec 17, 20:17
MarkV's Avatar
MarkV MarkV is offline
General of the Forums
UK
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Tenbury Wells
Posts: 12,771
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Interplanetary or interstellar, problem is we don't know if we can live long term off earth. We do know from experience on the ISS that about two years is the maximum that we can take micro gravity but we don't even have an idea if we can cope long term with a gravity that's different from Earths. A lunar research base might be a good start. An exo planet could have so many little traps in its environment like absence of a vital trace element that we don't even know today is vital.
__________________
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07 Dec 17, 20:52
phil74501's Avatar
phil74501 phil74501 is offline
Captain
United_States
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Choctaw Nation
Posts: 874
phil74501 has demonstrated strength of character [100] phil74501 has demonstrated strength of character [100] phil74501 has demonstrated strength of character [100] phil74501 has demonstrated strength of character [100] phil74501 has demonstrated strength of character [100] phil74501 has demonstrated strength of character [100] phil74501 has demonstrated strength of character [100] phil74501 has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Years ago, probably 25 or so, I watched a Nova episode on space travel. One of the scientists they had on the show said that, for us to travel around space like Captain Kirk, will require a leap in technology as far advanced over us as we are over cavemen. I would say in that 25 year span, we really haven't advanced very far in the direction of interstellar travel.

We'll either have to figure out how to time travel, if that's even possible, and/or figure out how to travel faster than the speed of light. Even at the speed of light it's still so far to anywhere that it's not feasible for a craft to be able to carry enough supplies for a crew to survive.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08 Dec 17, 10:26
Poor Old Spike's Avatar
Poor Old Spike Poor Old Spike is offline
Colonel
UK
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: England
Posts: 1,853
Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterZero View Post
..The consensus seems to be that humans will never travel to the stars with human crews, as shown in sci-fi films. Simply not practical..
You could be right, but never say never..
One of the best scifi films to intelligently explore the theme of faster-than-light travel is 'Interstellar" because it's deep on several levels, and factors in time dilation effects that most other films gloss over.
SPOILER ALERT- For example three of the crew shuttle down to a planet that's in a powerful gravitational grip, while a crewman stays aboard the orbiting mothership. When they return to the ship an hour later they find the crewman is now greyhaired because they've been away for 23 years of "his" time..

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08 Dec 17, 11:25
slick24's Avatar
slick24 slick24 is online now
General
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Paul
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: living in a van, down by the river
Posts: 4,335
slick24 is simply cracking [600]
slick24 is simply cracking [600] slick24 is simply cracking [600] slick24 is simply cracking [600] slick24 is simply cracking [600] slick24 is simply cracking [600] slick24 is simply cracking [600] slick24 is simply cracking [600] slick24 is simply cracking [600] slick24 is simply cracking [600] slick24 is simply cracking [600] slick24 is simply cracking [600] slick24 is simply cracking [600]
I would say that we have no way of knowing what is possible in the future. It sure looks like it will not be possible now, but who knows what scientific breakthroughs will happen that may enable it down the road (it will take some massive breakthroughs to enable it though).
__________________
If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around.

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” -- Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 14 Dec 17, 15:15
Mountain Man's Avatar
Mountain Man Mountain Man is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado Rocky Mts, USA
Posts: 69,873
Mountain Man has disabled reputation
We haven't even mastered our own planet. We're hardly qualified to consider going anywhere else.
__________________
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 14 Dec 17, 16:24
Pirateship1982's Avatar
Pirateship1982 Pirateship1982 is offline
General of the Forums
Pirate
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
 
Real Name: Mayor McCheese
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Night Vale
Posts: 15,984
Pirateship1982 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pirateship1982 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pirateship1982 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pirateship1982 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pirateship1982 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pirateship1982 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pirateship1982 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pirateship1982 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pirateship1982 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pirateship1982 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pirateship1982 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pirateship1982 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pirateship1982 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pirateship1982 has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pirateship1982 has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
We haven't even mastered our own planet. We're hardly qualified to consider going anywhere else.
Dreaming is the first step. Science fiction is fiction but it often inspires the pursuit of science fact. Plenty of JPL engineers spent their formative years playing Star Trek.
__________________
A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 14 Dec 17, 19:56
MarkV's Avatar
MarkV MarkV is offline
General of the Forums
UK
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Tenbury Wells
Posts: 12,771
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
We haven't even mastered our own planet. .
And therein lies the real problem - our planet may not want to be mastered.
__________________
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 15 Dec 17, 16:11
Mountain Man's Avatar
Mountain Man Mountain Man is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado Rocky Mts, USA
Posts: 69,873
Mountain Man has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
Dreaming is the first step. Science fiction is fiction but it often inspires the pursuit of science fact. Plenty of JPL engineers spent their formative years playing Star Trek.
Yes, it is...followed by reality. The last thing the universe needs is a bunch of warring factions with nuclear weapons zipping around the galaxy.
__________________
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 15 Dec 17, 16:32
T. A. Gardner's Avatar
T. A. Gardner T. A. Gardner is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: T. A. Gardner
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 35,913
T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+] T. A. Gardner has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
You could be right, but never say never..
One of the best scifi films to intelligently explore the theme of faster-than-light travel is 'Interstellar" because it's deep on several levels, and factors in time dilation effects that most other films gloss over.
SPOILER ALERT- For example three of the crew shuttle down to a planet that's in a powerful gravitational grip, while a crewman stays aboard the orbiting mothership. When they return to the ship an hour later they find the crewman is now greyhaired because they've been away for 23 years of "his" time..
Except gravity has little to do with that. You need to be pretty close to C to get massive shifts in time.

The Lorenz factor chart for this:



So, unless you are at .8C or more it really doesn't shift that much. So, the movie exaggerated for effect... greatly exaggerated...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 16 Dec 17, 02:29
The Exorcist's Avatar
The Exorcist The Exorcist is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 28,124
The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+] The Exorcist has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
And therein lies the real problem - our planet may not want to be mastered.
I'm not terribly concerned what a ball of mud & rock "wants", not do I believe it can want much of anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
Dreaming is the first step. Science fiction is fiction but it often inspires the pursuit of science fact. Plenty of JPL engineers spent their formative years playing Star Trek.
Ain't it great?
Prior to the Wright Bros, there was no shortage of "experts" making a living by telling people that manned flight in our atmosphere would never be practical. People were convinced that going into space at all was impossible, my own parents stopped going to church because the reverend was saying that it was wrong for humans to "invade heaven".

If it can be done, we can find a way.
All we need is a scientific community that is more concerned with fact and possibility than it is with group consensus and the media spotlight... and as of now, we do not.
However, the first thing that has to be done is master interplanetary travel, and we are still back-sliding. It needs to be opened up to Private Enterprise, turn human ingenuity loose and let people take risks or their own free will, and do it for 1% of what it would cost a Govt committee.

Let's see what the Asteroid miners can come up with. Let's see what a parallax view the size of Jupiter's orbit can tell us about the true nature of the cosmos. Let somebody check out the oceans of Titan to see what they really are, and allow them to profit from their efforts as a reward for the risk and work they put into it.

That is really all there is to it.
But for that to happen, people would have to stop living in fear of everything that everyone else might do.
Maybe next millennium, eh?
__________________
"Journalists dislike getting straight answers almost as much as politicians dislike giving them. They cannot be “reinterpreted.”"
-Francis Porretto, Liberty's Torch
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 13:45.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.