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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > East Asia and the Pacific

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East Asia and the Pacific China - Japan - Australia and challenges throughout East Asia.

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  #1  
Old 17 Sep 12, 09:48
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China's Outbreak of Anti-Japan Sentiment

I will be interesting to see how this evolves. Now it looks like it will be an economic battle which I believe will eventually force the Japanese to relinquish their claim to the islands.

Quote:
China's worst outbreak of anti-Japan sentiment in decades led to weekend demonstrations and violent attacks on well-known Japanese businesses such as car makers Toyota and Honda, forcing frightened Japanese into hiding and prompting Chinese state media to warn that trade relations could now be in jeopardy.

"I'm not going out today and I've asked my Chinese boyfriend to be with me all day tomorrow," said Sayo Morimoto, a 29-year-old Japanese graduate student at a university in Shenzhen.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said the government would protect Japanese firms and citizens and called for protesters to obey the law.

"The gravely destructive consequences of Japan's illegal purchase of the Diaoyu Islands are steadily emerging, and the responsibility for this should be borne by Japan," he told a daily news briefing.

The islands, called the Senkaku by Japan and Diaoyu by China, are also claimed by self-ruled Taiwan, which China considers a breakaway Chinese province...................

China and Japan, which generated two-way trade of $345 billion last year, are arguing over a group of uninhabited islets in the East China Sea, a long-standing dispute that erupted last week when the Japanese government decided to buy some of them from a private Japanese owner.

The move, which infuriated Beijing, was intended by Japan's government to fend off what it feared would be seen as an even more provocative plan by the nationalist governor of Tokyo to buy and build facilities on the islands.

In response, China sent six surveillance ships to the area, which contains potentially large gas reserves. On Monday, a flotilla of around 1,000 Chinese fishing boats was sailing for the islands................

U.S. SAYS NOT TAKING SIDES

Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda, who met visiting U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta on Monday, urged Beijing to ensure Japan's people and property were protected.

Panetta said the United States would stand by its security treaty obligations to Japan but not take sides in the row, and urged calm and restraint on both sides.
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  #2  
Old 17 Sep 12, 14:46
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There were several well organized protests this weekend in San Francisco. They marched thru Chinatown and Japantown.







This is outside the Japanese consulate in Beijing.



What is wrong with people nowadays, why are people so eager to storm foreign embassies?
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Old 17 Sep 12, 16:05
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The Japanese have been going on a limb recently, picking fights with all of their neighbours: Chinese, Koreans and Russians. Are they going through a period of serious domestic troubles (beside Fukushima) that their government needs a "foreign enemy" distraction like this?
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Old 17 Sep 12, 17:41
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Sorry, do the Chinese need an excuse to hate the Japanese ?
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Old 17 Sep 12, 21:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
There were several well organized protests this weekend in San Francisco. They marched thru Chinatown and Japantown.







This is outside the Japanese consulate in Beijing.



What is wrong with people nowadays, why are people so eager to storm foreign embassies?
the protests in San francisco surprised me a bit. The on-going tension is getting scary, I don't mind saying.
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Old 17 Sep 12, 21:21
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Sorry, do the Chinese need an excuse to hate the Japanese ?
Some already do, because of lingering hatred from japanese atrocities of WW2. Which just makes this current issue all the more sensitive. Don't they have good reason to?
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Old 17 Sep 12, 21:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
the protests in San francisco surprised me a bit. The on-going tension is getting scary, I don't mind saying.
I have many friends of Chinese descent and the feedback I'm getting is that this issue is worth going to war for. In a way, it would allow them the opportunity to truly enact revenge. Now that is a scary thought...

Plus, I'm sure PLAN is just itching to try out their new toys...for real!
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Old 17 Sep 12, 22:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
I have many friends of Chinese descent and the feedback I'm getting is that this issue is worth going to war for. In a way, it would allow them the opportunity to truly enact revenge. Now that is a scary thought...

Plus, I'm sure PLAN is just itching to try out their new toys...for real!
Personally, i think it's worth it, too, as the Diaoyu/Senkaku was taken from china by japan during WW2. It's like someone spit on you and the spit is still there. What I'm afraid of is that this might just be a tip of the iceberg of a hatred that might get out of hand. WW2 is a very very very touchy subject, and with the feeling that Japan has NOT adequately paid restitution nor adequately and sincerely apologized, it's a simmering cauldron that's been simmering for some time.

For those with only a vague idea, kindly try to watch "Tears of the Sun" on youtube (I also learned of that movie here in the forum from someone; just a word of warning, I myself couldn't finish the snippets), not the one by Bruce.
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Old 18 Sep 12, 10:36
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Another Point of View

This article makes the point that because of the large economic ties between Japan and China neither government will let this get too hostile.
Quote:
HONG KONG (MarketWatch) -- Anti-Japanese protests in China were downplayed by some market observers Tuesday, who said tensions were likely to blow over in a few weeks with little impact upon the share prices of major Tokyo-listed brands with mainland operations.

RBC Investment Management (Asia) Ltd. fund manager Yoji Takeda said he wasn’t concerned about a lasting impact to Japanese companies who rely upon China for a growing share of their sales. Takeda said that history has tended to show a pattern of flare ups between the two nations that then abates in about a month. “I’m not that pessimistic about the situation,” he said.

China and Japan have seen improving ties and growing trade, with China ranking as Japan’s largest single trading partner. “Economically, these two countries are closely integrated,” Takeda said. .................

“Historically, these rifts have been “short-lived with limited impact,” the Jefferies analysts said. The broker said Chinese airlines currently suffering from a surge in cancellations of mainland tours to Japan are likely set for a fast rebound for what ranks as their most profitable international route when tensions ease.

Two other notable periods of anti-Japanese sentiment -- one that kicked off in March 2005 and another in October 2010 -- each lasted less than two months. And they had a smaller effect on mainland visitors to Japan than the tsunami and Fukushima Daiichi atomic meltdown disaster in 2011, Jefferies said.
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Old 18 Sep 12, 12:30
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Originally Posted by PitchRate View Post
This article makes the point that because of the large economic ties between Japan and China neither government will let this get too hostile.
<b>
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Find an article showing Chinese people feeling the same and I might give it the benefit of doubt, but the article quotes a Japanese and a business analyst who are only speculating that the rift will be short-lived. He has no clue how the Chinese people all over the world feel about the Japanese, let alone this island dispute. This will have long, sustaining impact on trade between China & Japan, in addition to possible military action. And even though the U.S. confirmed it would stand by its security treaty obligations to Japan, but that doesn't give Japan the green light to instigate a fight with China. The bad blood between Japan and China run so deep that even should Japan apologize sincerely for their WWII crimes, the Chinese would still hold a grudge.
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Old 18 Sep 12, 18:14
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And rightfully so.

As with any wrong-doing, forgiveness starts with an apology, not with denials. It's only a start. The whole process takes some time, and with the nature and extent of the atrocities, it definitely will take time. BUT, some people are okay with it, as can be seen by the number of mainland tourists to japan.

I think what either government wants right now becomes secondary to what the other side does. Their actions are limited to what won't make them look weak, and that's (part of) the problem.
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Old 18 Sep 12, 18:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
BUT, some people are okay with it, as can be seen by the number of mainland tourists to japan.

I think what either government wants right now becomes secondary to what the other side does. Their actions are limited to what won't make them look weak, and that's (part of) the problem.
What tourism you do see now are the last trickle of Chinese tourist to Japan.


Quote:
September 18, 2012, 7:57 PM HKT
Senkaku Fight Leaves Trail of Carnage in Tourism Industry


Travel companies say they are seeing slowing business between China and Japan as the two countries ratchet up the rhetoric in a territorial dispute over a group of East China Sea islands. That has led to occasionally violent protests in China with a definite anti-Japanese tone.

All Nippon Airways Co 9202.TO 0.00%., Japan’s biggest airline by passengers, said Tuesday that 18,800 seat reservations have been canceled on its routes between Japan and China for the period from September to November. Chinese budget carrier Spring Airlines Co. will cancel its 10 charter flights between Shanghai and the Japanese city of Tottori from Saturday to Nov. 25, a company spokesman said Tuesday.

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2...na-japan-spat/

The ball is in Japan's court, they can proceed and finalize the sale of the islands or they can back off...it's up to them.
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Old 18 Sep 12, 21:42
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Yes, my point being, without this current tension, there are enough mainlanders who flock to japan for them to be a big chunk of the tourism industry, because they don't feel the anger some do. Of course, the current tensions are fanning the flames, most likely making even normally even-tempered people flare up.


But assuming Japan is willing to do the face-losing gesture of backing down, what then? will the provincial government proceed then with their plans to buy and develop the island? Can the japanese national government stop it?

IF japan doesn't back down, what then? Another massive flotilla of chinese fishermen? BTW, what's up with that "1000" fishing boats? Are all these fishing boats chinese-government owned/controlled? Or are these private?
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Old 19 Sep 12, 02:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
Yes, my point being, without this current tension, there are enough mainlanders who flock to japan for them to be a big chunk of the tourism industry, because they don't feel the anger some do. Of course, the current tensions are fanning the flames, most likely making even normally even-tempered people flare up.
Most of the tourists the past decade or so, has been the younger generation of Chinese. But I get your point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
But assuming Japan is willing to do the face-losing gesture of backing down, what then? will the provincial government proceed then with their plans to buy and develop the island? Can the japanese national government stop it?

IF japan doesn't back down, what then? Another massive flotilla of chinese fishermen? BTW, what's up with that "1000" fishing boats? Are all these fishing boats chinese-government owned/controlled? Or are these private?
Personally, I think the owner of the islands should extend a purchase offered to Beijing. Consider it partial reparations...
The proper thing to do would be to give it back to the Chinese...but we know that isn't going to happen.


These are the 1,000 boats enroute to the islands...they are private.


Fishing boats are seen departing from Shenjiawan port in Zhoushan, Zhejiang province towards the East China Sea fishing grounds on Monday. REUTERS
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Old 19 Sep 12, 11:00
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Beijing hints at bond attack on Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
Find an article showing Chinese people feeling the same and I might give it the benefit of doubt, but the article quotes a Japanese and a business analyst who are only speculating that the rift will be short-lived. He has no clue how the Chinese people all over the world feel about the Japanese, let alone this island dispute. This will have long, sustaining impact on trade between China & Japan, in addition to possible military action. And even though the U.S. confirmed it would stand by its security treaty obligations to Japan, but that doesn't give Japan the green light to instigate a fight with China. The bad blood between Japan and China run so deep that even should Japan apologize sincerely for their WWII crimes, the Chinese would still hold a grudge.
Yep - here seems to be the Chinese version -not quite as nice..

Quote:
Jin Baisong from the Chinese Academy of International Trade – a branch of the commerce ministry – said China should use its power as Japan’s biggest creditor with $230bn (£141bn) of bonds to “impose sanctions on Japan in the most effective manner” and bring Tokyo’s festering fiscal crisis to a head.

Writing in the Communist Party newspaper China Daily, Mr Jin called on China to invoke the “security exception” rule under the World Trade Organisation to punish Japan, rejecting arguments that a trade war between the two Pacific giants would be mutually destructive.

Separately, the Hong Kong Economic Journal reported that China is drawing up plans to cut off Japan’s supplies of rare earth metals needed for hi-tech industry.

The warnings came as anti-Japanese protests spread to 85 cities across China, forcing Japanese companies to shutter factories and suspend operations.

Fitch Ratings threatened to downgrade a clutch of Japanese exporters if the clash drags on. It warned that Nissan is heavily at risk with 26pc of its global car sales in China, followed by Honda with 20pc. Sharp and Panasonic both have major exposure. Japan’s exports to China were $74bn in the first half of this year. Bilateral trade reached $345bn last year.
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