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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Forum Resources > The Barracks > Mess Hall

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Mess Hall By popular demand - this area of the Barracks is set aside for all your culinary-related discussions.

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  #1  
Old 07 Nov 17, 12:16
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Aluminium: should we be worried?

Sorry to start a new thread but this could be important, namely there might be a possible link between Alzheimers and aluminium cans and cooking pots and pans etc.
I first heard about it some 15-odd years ago in a TV medical science programme in which microscopic flecks of aluminium were found in some deceased Alzheimers patients brains, and it scared me enough to immediately switch to non-aluminium pots and pans, and also to avoid cooking foil, and canned foods and drinks as much as possible.
Since then I hadn't heard it mentioned in the media at all until a couple of weeks ago when I saw this news item-



And after googling 'aluminium alzheimers' it seems the jury is still out on whether there's a link or not-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...n-disease.html

Last edited by Poor Old Spike; 07 Nov 17 at 12:21..
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  #2  
Old 07 Nov 17, 12:18
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Sounds like your taking the proper precautions I use cast iron pans and steel pots.
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Old 07 Nov 17, 12:25
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Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
Sounds like your taking the proper precautions I use cast iron pans and steel pots.
Me too, plus teflon-coated stuff..
PS- If there really was a link to Alzheimers, I wonder if we could trust the government to tell us, or maybe they'd hush it up to protect the aluminium industry..
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Old 07 Nov 17, 12:31
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Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Me too, plus teflon-coated stuff..
PS- If there really was a link to Alzheimers, I wonder if we could trust the government to tell us, or maybe they'd hush it up to protect the aluminium industry..
Err teflon isn't a good idea to be frank.


Toxic fumes from the Teflon chemical released from pots and pans at high temperatures may kill pet birds and cause people to develop flu-like symptoms (called "Teflon Flu" or, as scientists describe it, "Polymer fume fever"). Ingesting particles that flake off scratched non-stick cookware isn't toxic because solid PTFE flakes are inert.
Manufacturers' labels often warn consumers to avoid high heat when cooking on Teflon. But EWG-commissioned tests conducted in 2003 showed that in just two to five minutes on a conventional stove top, cookware coated with Teflon and other non-stick surfaces could exceed temperatures at which the coating breaks apart and emits toxic particles and gases.
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Old 07 Nov 17, 17:20
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Consider switching to Copper!

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  #6  
Old 07 Nov 17, 18:13
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Compared to jihadis, gun-nuts, nuclear weapons, mad dictators, fracking, dodgy water, and global warming, aluminium is the least of our worries.
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  #7  
Old 08 Nov 17, 03:50
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Two pieces on the Aluminum, I have put in a couple of extracts.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articl...29/1163941.htm



CSIRO scientist Dr Jenny Stauber said the study was done because of suggestions that aluminium in drinking water may be more easily absorbed into the bloodstream than from other sources. This was linked to the public perception that aluminium in diet or drinking water was a contributor to Alzheimer's. Although this has been shown to be false, aluminium is a known neurotoxin with large amounts in the blood causing a neurological disease similar to Alzheimer's.

"The general consensus now is that there is no link between Alzheimer's and aluminium," said Dr Stauber. "Our results indicate that water authorities can confidently continue to use alum to treat drinking water with minimal risk to health." However, Dr Stauber acknowledged that it is still unknown whether unhealthy people might absorb aluminium differently.

The study into drinking water was supported by a related report identifying sources of aluminium in the Australian diet, undertaken by Dr Fiona Cumming of the Australian New Zealand Food Authority and Ms Jane Allen on behalf of the Water Services Association of Australia.

The report shows that the average Australian adult consumes around 0.6 milligrams per kg bodyweight of aluminium per week, this is well under the recommended tolerable weekly intake of 7 milligrams per kg bodyweight.




http://www.abc.net.au/science/articl...s&topic=latest

he first scientific "evidence" about aluminium's toxicity appeared in the mid-1970s. People with Alzheimer's Disease have typical changes in the brain that can be seen only with a microscope. They're called "neuro-fibrillary tangles". Various studies found high concentrations of aluminium at autopsy in the brains of people suffering with Alzheimer's Disease - and almost always in the characteristic neuro-fibrillary tangles in the nerves. So, did the aluminium cause Alzheimer's Disease? No. It eventually turned out that the neuro-fibrillary tangles were very "sticky" - and absorbed the aluminium out of the water used to wash them.

But around the same time, a brand-new aluminium-related disease appeared - "Dialysis Encephalopathy". By the mid-1970s, patients with chronic kidney failure were now routinely being treated with a new technique called "dialysis". It used hundreds of litres of water each day to purify the blood. Unfortunately, the aluminium naturally present in the water entered the blood, and couldn't be removed - because the kidneys weren't working. As the blood levels of aluminium soared to thousands of times higher than normal, the patients became confused and demented. As soon the problem was recognised, this "Dialysis Encephalopathy" was fixed by removing the aluminium from the water.

So, giving aluminium in massive concentrations directly into the blood of very sick people with failed kidneys did cause dementia. But there are lots of causes of dementia. Alzheimer's Disease is one of these. The dialysis patients, even though they had very high aluminium levels and dementia, never developed the neuro-fibrillary tangles, that are characteristic of Alzheimer's Disease.

On average, we each take in about 10 - 50 mg of aluminium per day. But even people who take antacids and buffered aspirin, which bumps up their aluminium intake to 1,000 mg of aluminium per day, have no increased incidence of Alzheimer's Disease.


I'd say every single other risk factor, especially Age and genetics have to line up, and aluminum is at the very end of the very long queue of risks. EG if you are taking buffered aspirin to reduce the risk of blood clots and thinning blood, the blood clots and heart attack risk would kill you before the aluminum.
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Old 08 Nov 17, 06:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
Sounds like your taking the proper precautions I use cast iron pans and steel pots.
I have gone down the rabbit hole on this one.
The full original article is available for free at;

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...46672X16303777

At first glance it looks like they have cherry-picked patients with early onset Alzheimer's and have found high levels of AL in some samples

The authors used a novel way to measure Al in brain tissue samples, it would be interesting to measure non-dementia patients.
We have made the first ever measurements of aluminium in brain tissue from 12 donors diagnosed with familial Alzheimer’s disease

. We have supported our quantitative analyses using a novel method of aluminium-selective fluorescence microscopy to visualise aluminium in all lobes of every brain investigated

Samples of cortex of approximately 1 g frozen weight from temporal, frontal, parietal and occipital lobes were obtained from 12 cases of autopsy-confirmed familial Alzheimer’s disease. Donors with familial Alzheimer’s disease are extremely rare and we had the privilege of obtaining tissue from the only 12 cases available at the brain bank with the year of diagnosis ranging from 1991 through to 2009.


While we have previously recorded values up to ca 13.00 μg/g in AD with occupational exposure to aluminium [14] and one value of 23.00 μg/g in congophilic amyloid angiopathy (CAA) with environmental exposure to aluminium [13] the values measured herein for familial AD are more similar to those which have been associated with aluminium-induced encephalopathies
(Note this might be the Al exposure from Dialysis...... which is an entirtly different kettle of fish to dietary exposure)

However, for those planning on going back to Iron pots;

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...24078246000525

Diet and Nutrition in Dementia and Cognitive Decline

2015, Pages 563–571

Cover image
Chapter 52 – Iron and Copper in Alzheimer’s Disease: A Review

Martin Loef, PhD, Harald Walach, Prof. PhD

Show more


Iron and copper might represent dietary risk factors for Alzheimer’s disease (AD). In order to collate the evidence for the relationship between diets high in copper and iron and cognitive decline or AD, we have conducted a review of the literature.

Trials which either supplement or deplete iron or copper provide no clear evidence of a beneficial effect on cognitive performance. Observational studies reveal an association between a diet simultaneously high in saturated fatty acids and copper and cognitive decline. Case control and autopsy studies show elevated iron levels in the brains of AD patients, whereas the evidence is less consistent for copper. Copper concentrations appear unchanged in the cerebrospinal fluid, decreased in the neocortex, but increased in the serum of AD patients compared to controls.

In conclusion, the existing data may suggest that diets excessive in iron or copper, together with a high intake of saturated fatty acids, should be avoided in the elderly who are not at risk of anemia.


The plot thickens.....
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Old 08 Nov 17, 08:44
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Well we're better off than the Romans who loved to boil things in lead pans because it made them taste sweet! Many of them probably ended up suffering from lead poisoning.

BTW Copper Toxicity or Copperiedus can occur from eating acid foods cooked in uncoated copper cookware and it can be pretty nasty too.

Let's face it being alive is a terminal condition
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Old 09 Nov 17, 14:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the ace View Post
Compared to jihadis, gun-nuts, nuclear weapons, mad dictators, fracking, dodgy water, and global warming, aluminium is the least of our worries.
Gorebal Warming is the least of my worries...
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Old 09 Nov 17, 15:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Sorry to start a new thread but this could be important, namely there might be a possible link between Alzheimers and aluminium cans and cooking pots and pans etc.
I first heard about it some 15-odd years ago in a TV medical science programme in which microscopic flecks of aluminium were found in some deceased Alzheimers patients brains, and it scared me enough to immediately switch to non-aluminium pots and pans, and also to avoid cooking foil, and canned foods and drinks as much as possible.
Since then I hadn't heard it mentioned in the media at all until a couple of weeks ago when I saw this news item-



And after googling 'aluminium alzheimers' it seems the jury is still out on whether there's a link or not-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...n-disease.html
Can't tell...we don't have any "aluminium" here in America, just ordinary aluminum. As far as I know, "alluminium" exists only in Great Britain.

The realtionship to Alzheimers is not through the aluminum - it is through the aspartane that is used to sweeten the beverages. That has been known for quite some time, since aspartane was used to replace the saccarin previously used (which has since been declared "safe" and is making a return).

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Old 09 Nov 17, 17:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Well we're better off than the Romans who loved to boil things in lead pans because it made them taste sweet! Many of them probably ended up suffering from lead poisoning.
I would say that the lead pipes and adding lead to wine made it even worse for the Romans.
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Old 09 Nov 17, 18:49
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It was the Lead Glaze inside the Amphora that put the lead in the wine. Even the Romans noticed that runoff from processing Lead ore killed farm animals.

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Old 09 Nov 17, 19:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
Sounds like your taking the proper precautions I use cast iron pans and steel pots.
So iron scrapings get into your food...know what hemachromatosis is?

BTW...the first studies about aluminum were in the 90's and have been ruled wrong in their conclusions.
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Old 09 Nov 17, 22:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
It was the Lead Glaze inside the Amphora that put the lead in the wine. Even the Romans noticed that runoff from processing Lead ore killed farm animals.

Pruitt
More than just the Amphora.

Lead was actually a crystallized artificial sweetener for the Romans.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/5877587/the-...lots-of-romans
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