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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East > Gaza Conflicts

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Gaza Conflicts Discuss the series of conflicts between Israel and Gaza militants.

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  #121  
Old 19 Nov 12, 21:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorque View Post
Good post Gary. I look at the situation this way. What do the respective parties have to gain and/or lose?

What does Hamas have to lose by firing rockets into Israel? Politically little.
Hamas cannot compete militarily with the IDF. If the IDF invades Gaza, Hamas will be defeated. That is a given. But at what cost to the IDF. Each small set-back to the IDF will be trumpeted by Hamas as a great victory. Israel does not want to occupy Gaza as it will tie-up men and resources, monetary, human and political, at a great cost. Hamas knows this.

What does Israel have to gain by firing rockets and or bombing/strafing target in Gaza? Internally, nothing. Externally much. The death toll numbers of Palestinians to Israeli's killed only assists in Hamas' plan to win over public opinion to Hamas. It a cold and cruel tactic paid for with the lives of innocent Israeli and Palestinian non-combatants, but when the sides are David and Goliath, the undecided usually favor the underdog.
Unless Israel will start to assassinate
HAMAS leaders one by one.
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  #122  
Old 19 Nov 12, 21:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS116 View Post
Unless Israel will start to assassinate
HAMAS leaders.
No offense intended, but that may be an overly simplistic solution due to the more likely than not collateral civilian casualties associated with this course of action, the result of which will be martyrdom and greater international indignation. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and of late I have been more so than usual, but wasn't the targeted assassination of Hamas leaders that sparked this latest escalation or was it something else?
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  #123  
Old 19 Nov 12, 21:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorque View Post
No offense intended, but that may be an overly simplistic solution due to the more likely than not collateral civilian casualties associated with this course of action, the result of which will be martyrdom and greater international indignation. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and of late I have been more so than usual, but wasn't the targeted assassination of Hamas leaders that sparked this latest escalation or was it something else?
Pillar of Defense started with Hamas bombing Israel with rockets, then followed by the assassination of Jabari.
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  #124  
Old 19 Nov 12, 21:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorque View Post
No offense intended, but that may be an overly simplistic solution due to the more likely than not collateral civilian casualties associated with this course of action, the result of which will be martyrdom and greater international indignation. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and of late I have been more so than usual, but wasn't the targeted assassination of Hamas leaders that sparked this latest escalation or was it something else?
Something else.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...emium-1.476521

Four IDF soldiers wounded when Gaza anti-tank missile hits jeep on border

Palestinians report at least four killed, dozens wounded from IDF fire in response; Hamas, Popular Front claim responsibility for jeep attack; incident followed by Gaza rocket fire into southern Israel.

By Gili Cohen , Yaniv Kubovich, Jack Khoury and Avi Issacharoff | 17:52 10.11.12 | 40

Four Israel Defense Forces soldiers were wounded on Saturday, two seriously, when an anti-tank missile fired from the Saja'iye area of Gaza hit an army jeep on patrol near Nahal Oz, along the border fence with northern Gaza.

#######################################

List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2012


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._2012#November

October 28 Overnight, Palestinians fired two Qassam rockets into the Eshkol Regional Council. In the morning, a third Qassam rocket[287] and two Grad missiles exploded near Beersheba.[288] The Popular Resistance Committees claimed responsibility for one of the Grad missiles.[289][290] The Beersheba municipality cancelled school; Mayor Rubik Danilovich explained that the decision resulted from experience, saying, "We've had four direct hits on schools, and each of those times was when we were told to resume normalcy."[290] In the afternoon, another rocket landed near Ashkelon.[291]

October 29
Throughout the night and morning, Palestinians fired 20 rockets and mortars at Sderot and the Ashkelon Coast Regional Council. Residents of these towns were cautioned to stay within 15 seconds of reinforced "secure rooms" for protection in case a rocket fell.[292][293]

October 30
in 7:44 in the morning a rocket hit the outskirts of Dimona,[294] no injuries or damage reported. That was the first time 45km rocket had been used.

October 31
In the morning, Palestinians fired two Qassam rockets into the Eshkol Regional Council. One rocket exploded in an open area within a town, but caused no injuries or damage.[295]

November 4 Palestinians fired a Qassam rocket into Israel, causing no injuries or damage.[296]

November 6 Following the shooting and subsequent death on the previous day of a Gazan civilian approaching the border with Israel,[297], at 10:20am [298] Palestinians fired a rocket into the Eshkol Regional Council, causing no injuries or damage.[299]

November 9 Following an Israeli incursion on the previous day into 'Abassan village and the killing of a 13 year-old Palestinian boy by Israeli gunfire[300][301], Palestinians fired two Qassam rockets into the Eshkol Regional Council, causing no injuries or damage.[302]

November 10
Palestinian militants fired an anti-tank missile at an IDF jeep patroling the border, wounding 4 soldiers [303]. IDF forces responded with tank fire, killing 4 Palestinians on a football playground (aged 16,17,18 and 19) and wounding 38 [301]. Further airstrikes killed 2 Palestinian militants. Palestinians then fired 25 rockets at Ashkelon, Ashdod, Gan Yavne and other communities. The Iron Dome anti-rocket system intercepted at least one rocket aimed at Ashdod.[304] IDF airstrikes destroyed several Palestinian targets which the IDF alleged were being used for military purposes, including a water tank, an electricty company office, a brick factory, a metal workshop, a concrete factory, a poultry farm, and an agricultural store, damaging several houses, and wounding 13 Palestinian civilians [301].

November 11 Gazan groups fired over 100 rockets and mortars at Israeli cities and towns. A barrage against Sderot, timed to coincide with the morning commute to work, injured 3 people. One victim, physical education teacher Moshik Levy, was moderately wounded by shrapnel and glass from his car windshield which exploded in his face. A fourth person was injured while fleeing for cover, and five more people were treated for acute stress reaction. Two homes, one in Sderot and one in the Eshkol Regional Council, were damaged by direct rocket hits. United States Ambassador Dan Shapiro declared that his country "supports Israelís right to defend itself and its citizens from these attacks."[304]

November 12 After a relatively calm night, Gaza gunmen fired nine rockets at southern Israel. Seven rockets were fired at the Negev region and two towards Ashkelon.[305]
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  #125  
Old 19 Nov 12, 21:59
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Humor under fire

Humor under fire

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  #126  
Old 19 Nov 12, 22:35
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Thanks for the information to the both of you.
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  #127  
Old 19 Nov 12, 22:41
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HAMAS LEADER ABOUT HAMAS GOALS AND
PALESTINIAN PEOPLE ROOTS


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  #128  
Old 19 Nov 12, 22:54
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It's so sad that such a potentially wonderful and beautiful vacation paradise on the Mediterranean is going to be pounded down to rubble and ruin in the coming days. Hamas will most certainly reap what it has sowed.
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  #129  
Old 19 Nov 12, 22:58
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Dealing with Hamasís human shield tactics


Dealing with Hamasís human shield tactics

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=292646

#####################################

IAF strikes 4 terrorists hiding in media building





http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=292483

The IAF launched a precision air strike on four senior Islamic Jihad terrorists who were using a Gaza media building as a hideout. The terrorists were all struck by a missile that hit the second story of the building. They were hurt in the blast, and at least one has been killed, according to Palestinian medical sources.

They have been identified as Bhaía Abu Ata, Tisir Mahmoud Jabari, Khalil Bahatini and Ramaz Harb.
Ata was a member of Islamic Jihadís supreme military council and the commander of the Gaza City brigade. He led rocket fire on Israel and oversaw the manufacture and import of rockets, including long-range Fajr projectiles.
Jabari, who was also a member of the supreme military council, headed terror operations and orchestrated the firing of many rockets into Israel. He also took part in attacks on IDF forces. Bahatini was a senior operative involved in Islamic Jihadís long-range rocket program.
Harb was an Islamic Jihad spokesman and an aid to Hamas military chief Ahmed Jabari, who was killed by Israel last week.
Islamic Jihad is an Iranian proxy organization in Gaza, and receives direct orders from Tehran, as well as arms, long-range rockets and financing.
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  #130  
Old 19 Nov 12, 23:46
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Iran says they're rushing replacement rockets to Gaza by ship. This should prove interesting should they try to run the Israeli Naval blockade offshore.
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Old 20 Nov 12, 00:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorque View Post
What does Hamas have to lose by firing rockets into Israel? Politically little.
Militarily little (well, nothing actually.)

But politically quite a lot, due to the sympathy and political support they can gain, from both Arab neighbours and the international community, by portraying themselves to the world as victims of wanton aggression by vastly superior and heartless forces.


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  #132  
Old 20 Nov 12, 02:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbryan View Post
Iran says they're rushing replacement rockets to Gaza by ship. This should prove interesting should they try to run the Israeli Naval blockade offshore.
Would that be considered an act of war?
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  #133  
Old 20 Nov 12, 02:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marktwain View Post
Simple. Hamas stops launching rockets and suicide bombs. Easy. Of course, more chance the sun won't come up tomorrow.
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  #134  
Old 20 Nov 12, 03:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salinator View Post
Would that be considered an act of war?
Not per se. Neutral ship trading with a combatant party, perfectly feasible. On the other hand, the other party has a right to stop and search, and seize, such a neutral ship or its cargo. Hostile behavior by said ship, OTOH, could be considered an act of war.

The Israelis as we know have a standing policy of intercepting all traffic to Gaza and checking that no war materiel is brought in, and they were willing to take a massive PR hit in order to enforce that with reference to a Turkish unarmed convoy. My bet is that they would do whatever is needed to stop an Iranian convoy.
Only, I don't believe the Iranians are sending it. Just one more lie.
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  #135  
Old 20 Nov 12, 03:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS116 View Post
Something else.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...emium-1.476521

Four IDF soldiers wounded when Gaza anti-tank missile hits jeep on border

Palestinians report at least four killed, dozens wounded from IDF fire in response; Hamas, Popular Front claim responsibility for jeep attack; incident followed by Gaza rocket fire into southern Israel.

By Gili Cohen , Yaniv Kubovich, Jack Khoury and Avi Issacharoff | 17:52 10.11.12 | 40

Four Israel Defense Forces soldiers were wounded on Saturday, two seriously, when an anti-tank missile fired from the Saja'iye area of Gaza hit an army jeep on patrol near Nahal Oz, along the border fence with northern Gaza.

#######################################

List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2012


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._2012#November

October 28 Overnight, Palestinians fired two Qassam rockets into the Eshkol Regional Council. In the morning, a third Qassam rocket[287] and two Grad missiles exploded near Beersheba.[288] The Popular Resistance Committees claimed responsibility for one of the Grad missiles.[289][290] The Beersheba municipality cancelled school; Mayor Rubik Danilovich explained that the decision resulted from experience, saying, "We've had four direct hits on schools, and each of those times was when we were told to resume normalcy."[290] In the afternoon, another rocket landed near Ashkelon.[291]

October 29
Throughout the night and morning, Palestinians fired 20 rockets and mortars at Sderot and the Ashkelon Coast Regional Council. Residents of these towns were cautioned to stay within 15 seconds of reinforced "secure rooms" for protection in case a rocket fell.[292][293]

October 30
in 7:44 in the morning a rocket hit the outskirts of Dimona,[294] no injuries or damage reported. That was the first time 45km rocket had been used.

October 31
In the morning, Palestinians fired two Qassam rockets into the Eshkol Regional Council. One rocket exploded in an open area within a town, but caused no injuries or damage.[295]

November 4 Palestinians fired a Qassam rocket into Israel, causing no injuries or damage.[296]

November 6 Following the shooting and subsequent death on the previous day of a Gazan civilian approaching the border with Israel,[297], at 10:20am [298] Palestinians fired a rocket into the Eshkol Regional Council, causing no injuries or damage.[299]

November 9 Following an Israeli incursion on the previous day into 'Abassan village and the killing of a 13 year-old Palestinian boy by Israeli gunfire[300][301], Palestinians fired two Qassam rockets into the Eshkol Regional Council, causing no injuries or damage.[302]

November 10
Palestinian militants fired an anti-tank missile at an IDF jeep patroling the border, wounding 4 soldiers [303]. IDF forces responded with tank fire, killing 4 Palestinians on a football playground (aged 16,17,18 and 19) and wounding 38 [301]. Further airstrikes killed 2 Palestinian militants. Palestinians then fired 25 rockets at Ashkelon, Ashdod, Gan Yavne and other communities. The Iron Dome anti-rocket system intercepted at least one rocket aimed at Ashdod.[304] IDF airstrikes destroyed several Palestinian targets which the IDF alleged were being used for military purposes, including a water tank, an electricty company office, a brick factory, a metal workshop, a concrete factory, a poultry farm, and an agricultural store, damaging several houses, and wounding 13 Palestinian civilians [301].

November 11 Gazan groups fired over 100 rockets and mortars at Israeli cities and towns. A barrage against Sderot, timed to coincide with the morning commute to work, injured 3 people. One victim, physical education teacher Moshik Levy, was moderately wounded by shrapnel and glass from his car windshield which exploded in his face. A fourth person was injured while fleeing for cover, and five more people were treated for acute stress reaction. Two homes, one in Sderot and one in the Eshkol Regional Council, were damaged by direct rocket hits. United States Ambassador Dan Shapiro declared that his country "supports Israelís right to defend itself and its citizens from these attacks."[304]

November 12 After a relatively calm night, Gaza gunmen fired nine rockets at southern Israel. Seven rockets were fired at the Negev region and two towards Ashkelon.[305]
November 13 - Sides reach truce.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8AC09620121113

November 14 - Israel launches offensive and assassinates Jabari.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8AE01120121115
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