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  #46  
Old 12 Jun 15, 08:09
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Uh Huh, Japan could have 100 million men but it won't do them any good if they can't transport and supply them across the Pacific.


You do know that while Japan had 6 “fleet” carriers the U.S. had 7. we had also laid down the first half dozen Essex class carriers which came on line in late 1942. however in this scenario we would have commenced expedited construction sooner and had at least the first 3 commissioned by the middle of '42.


The time it took to build a BB was almost 3 years for the U.S. and Britain in fact no U.S. battleship was built entirely during the war years. Germany, Italy, France, USSR and especially Japan would have had no hope of building them in less than 5 years (and only Japan would have had a modern design for them). Not that it would have mattered since the decisive weapon of the war was the carrier which as I have pointed out the U.S. could and did overwhelm anyone else in building.


As for your claim that the axis would have had anywhere in the western hemisphere to operate from it would never happen. That would call for a major invasion which would than be cut off while the Axis ships went home to resupply and repair allowing the U.S. and Canada to bomb them and counter invade (being much closer we would be able to re-enforce much more quickly).
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  #47  
Old 12 Jun 15, 11:41
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The Japanese supplied very little to the invading divisions in Burma, Malaya (especially on the Indian Ocean coast, where they performed repeated landings on ridiculous craft to outflank the British), Milne Bay, Guadalcanal, Kokoda, etc,
In the late spring there is a lot of food in the US W coast and along the Columbia and Snake River basin, besides the US food bought by the axis and Soviets before the invasion.

For example, the Chinese regulate today the price of wheat in the Columbia basin, etc, by buying huge amounts at a low price at unpredictable intervals, which leaves little wheat for other buyers to acquire at a higher price, so the Chinese can produce cheaper flour, pasta, cookies, etc, and export them. Suppose the Chinese decide to invade the US and have acquired and amassed in WA State a large t of wheat, which solves many logistics problems.

In this scenario, after the 1st day the US has 5 carriers left and only an old one and extremely vulnerable in the Pacific, which doesn't stand a chance in hell. Besides capturing a lot of ships at harbor and at sea, the axis and Soviets will capture a lot of cargo and warships under construction in the numerous shipyards (like they did in Nikolaef, etc,). Even the old carriers had aviators inexperienced in combat. Even if the US manages to launch another carrier or 2, there is no time for a shakedown cruise and through training.
In contrast, Japanese aviators have been fighting for years and have fought Wildcats in the Pacific when they enter the Atlantic.

At least a CV has to be used by the Atlantic fleet to train pilots.

The US Atlantic fleet cannot send even a CVs to counter attack in invaluable Panama, since teh Atlantic coast is suffering terrible shipping losses and being invaded.

OTL the US got lucky and captured a slightly damaged Zero in the Aleutians months into the war and had months to repair and study it and develop tactics against it. In this scenario the US encounters the Zero, Ki-43, Bf 109, Folgore, La-5 and FW 190 nearly simultaneously and has little time to develop tactics against them and little chance that a pilot will survive and become experienced.

In this scenario Chenault and his men are captured by the Japanese or Soviets and the US loses all their knowledge and experience (no Pappy B.).

OTL US troops benefitted from British army experience and trained for months before engaging the Germans in Africa or France and even then did not do well initially. In this scenario the Germans, Soviets, Japanese, etc, show up in the US and leave no time for training.

Most importantly, the US and Britain always needed more supplies and equipment per man than axis and Soviet troops, so that as the US rapidly loses land producing oil, grain, cattle, fish, etc, and millions of refugees concentrate in a few industrial states with limited agriculture, oil, etc, and bombed and attacked from all sides the situation radily deteriorates.

Last edited by Draco; 12 Jun 15 at 11:52..
  #48  
Old 12 Jun 15, 11:54
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Just the loss of imported bauxite and of the hydroelectric dams and smelters producing huge quantities of aluminum along the poorly defended Columbia causes a logistics nightmare for the US.
  #49  
Old 12 Jun 15, 17:06
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With axis bases in Brazil, Dakar and Argentina American ships in the S Atlantic are in deep trouble when war breaks out.

With axis bases in the Canaries, Morocco, Spain, France, Norway, Panama, etc, the central and N Atlantic are also lethal for US ships.

BTW, when Britain is defeated by the axis and Soviets in late 1941, IEA and Libya revert to Italy, Free France loses all support and the territories it occupied revert to Vichy as an incentive for France to join the axis. With the world at peace, Iceland and the Faroes are abandoned, so the axis can occupy them readily when war breaks out.

Last edited by Draco; 12 Jun 15 at 17:19..
  #50  
Old 12 Jun 15, 19:25
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You are wrong again; the Thatch weave was a tactic which was developed to counter Japanese aircraft even before we were at war with them.

Any aircraft that the Axis use in the western hemisphere will have to be shipped in with the exception of Japans carrier aircraft.

Now with the U.S. having 3 carriers in the Pacific before the 3 Essex class come on line (by which I mean entering service) in mid ’42 and since you state that 2 Japanese carriers are going to the Atlantic (to face off against the 4 U.S. carriers that were stationed there) the Japanese are not going to win those battles, especially since the U.S. has broken the Japanese naval codes so that they know where they are coming from and when they are coming.

So the Germans, Soviets, et.al. will be trying to land in the face of U.S. air supremacy without proper landing craft. Than trying to supply an army across a beach until they take and repair a major port while under attack from air and sea. Sounds like a real winning strategy to me.
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  #51  
Old 12 Jun 15, 20:36
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I already mentioned that just like the US flew thousands of planes to the USSR over the Aleutians, the USSR, Germany, Italy, Japan, etc, will fly thousands of planes to the US over the Aleutians. Especially since the Zero, G4M, etc, have longer range than most American planes, so they fly faster, with fewer stops. Thousands of Pe-2, Ju-88, He-111, Ju-52, etc, wreak havoc.

German twin engine planes have no problem flying to Iceland and then to Nova Scotia and the US. Crated single engine planes are assembled in Panama, Cuba, Nova Scotia, New Foundland, etc, and so soon as the coast of Tx or Florida is captured, they are assmbled there.

By mid 1942 (late June) the USN has no coast, much less an area for a shakedown cruise and training. Unless they deploy them in the Great Lakes.

Roosevelt and his cabinet and advisors were terrified of Germany, despite it suffering enormous losses in the USSR and heavy bombing in 1941 and 42, they considered it a formidable enemy. Without those losses and with intact industry, plenty of oil, minerals, grain, etc, and fighting together with a mighty axis, and a very strong USSR, morale in the white house and elsewhere is at floor levels whne they hear that the 2 carriers, the whole fleet at anchor, Kauai, the planes and ships in the PI and hundreds of ships have been lost to subs and raiders in the Atlantic and that Panama is under attack from both sides and losing and Cuba, Venezuela and Nova Scotia are being invaded on the opening days of the war.

Last edited by Draco; 12 Jun 15 at 20:57..
  #52  
Old 12 Jun 15, 20:59
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Let me put it like this: if the entire WWII-era world ganged up on the US with the aim of conquering it conventionally, they couldn't have done it. Again, even the 18th century British Empire couldn't do it.

Any scenario during this time period in which the United States is invaded and conquered is beyond fantasy. Germany couldn't even invade Britain.
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Old 12 Jun 15, 23:37
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Just because the answer is almost certainly going to be hilarious,

Draco, exactly where does the Axis land on the US coast and what do they land with at those locations?
  #54  
Old 13 Jun 15, 00:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheBarbarian View Post
Let me put it like this: if the entire WWII-era world ganged up on the US with the aim of conquering it conventionally, they couldn't have done it. Again, even the 18th century British Empire couldn't do it.

Any scenario during this time period in which the United States is invaded and conquered is beyond fantasy. Germany couldn't even invade Britain.
Incredible arrogance and ignorance. The only reason the US got its independence was that France ruined its economy to provide financing, an army and a navy, without whch the US did not stand a chance in hell. Yorktown was a victory only thanks to the French fleet coinciding with the Americna and French armies. Most Americans did not fight an a large percentage were royalists (including Frankin's son) or opportunists who amassed fortunes from the war while the few soldiers starved and froze in Valley forge (saved in part by food supplied supplied by the Oneida, whom Washington betrayed after the war), so France contributed more thsn US citizens.

Militarily the Americans were so incompetent that a fake Prussian officer saved them by writing the army manual and training them into a half decent force.

Like I said, despite the Chinese killing far more Japanese troops and the Soviets killing infinitely more Germans than the Americans and the British shooting down thousands of German planes and destroying lots of U-boats even the Australians, New Zealanders, Indians, etc, helping considerably and having ample years unmolested to produce ridiculously large amounts of materiel, the US had a hell of a time in the few battles and small forces it faced.

Perhaps You remember Roosevelt's speech about Americans never before having to produce so much in such a short time. Now imagine America having to produce a lot more in a much shorter time and while under attack and taking heavy bombing and losses (as in Russia, but in a much smaller area and against not only Germany and Romania, but a much stronger axis and the Soviets) and without imports or allies.

Just fighting the USSR and its industry, instead of having it kill or wound millions of Germans and keep other millions busy for 4 years should make it clear to You the US is doomed.
Just not counting with China absorbing the bulk of the Japanese army and killing or wounding hundreds of thousands of Japanese, but instead having hundreds of millions of Chinese working for the Japanese, also makes an immense difference.
Add Brazil, France, etc, ME oil, unmolested German, Soviet and Italian industry, etc, and the US collapses in months.

Imagine how much stronger the enemy becomes and how much weaker the US becomes just by the enemy rapidly taking poorly defended WA State, Tx or the California coast. All being attacked nearly simultaneously.

Imagine the nightmare of trying to counter attack the invasion in the California Coast over the Pacific Crest and other areas simultaneously.

Last edited by Draco; 13 Jun 15 at 00:22..
  #55  
Old 13 Jun 15, 00:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheBarbarian View Post
Let me put it like this: if the entire WWII-era world ganged up on the US with the aim of conquering it conventionally, they couldn't have done it. Again, even the 18th century British Empire couldn't do it.

Any scenario during this time period in which the United States is invaded and conquered is beyond fantasy. Germany couldn't even invade Britain.
OK, this has gone beyond weird.
1. Draco, there are no military installations except for Coastal Defense on the Pacific Coast of the US above SF! The same goes for shipyards. There must be a reason?
2. Let's say you dump the poor bastards somehow on a Ore-WA beach. Again all by landing craft as the coastal rocks and shallow water make any approach dangerous. Supply them the same way. Forget air, I believe you said late Spring? Fog, fog and more fog, in between the clouds and rain. However, they get over these obstacles and form an invasion force.
Forget WA, even today there are no direct E-W roads. A problem with the Olympic Mts. and the rain forest. Springtime? You're dealing with an area that has some of the highest rainfall in the world. Abundant food? You might find some cranberries.
OK, land them in OR. Same idea about a beachhead. Then they're ready to invade. First problem is the Coastal Range. Limited to non-existing roads. If one of the three are taken and used, the soil, rain and terrain quickly make them unusable. Again, the roadsides are tropical forest. Pioneers will take a long time creating new ones. The myriad of small and large bridges destroyed by locals are somewhat of a problem also. Slog your way over somehow. Now you face the Cascades Mts. Same and different problems, but you overcome them. After a few hundred miles, welcome to the Rockies. These are not simply mountains but a true mountain range. They consist of several mountain ridges over a vast area of space.
3. An easy march up the Columbia Gorge? There was a reason that the pioneers couldn't take their wagons from The Dalles to Portland and beyond. Today, you can still travel sections of the "Old Road" that existed in the 1940's. Even on those short stretches you could see the problems. Single lane at times, it's twists are not switchbacks, but are constant and sharp following the contours of the basalt cliffs. Coupled with these problems are the dozen of bridges built over the numerous deep gorges of the streams that create all the waterfalls so loved today. Let's just forget the one lane tunnels. Partisans?

To clean up some loose ends.
1. Forget Hydro electric. The Columbia had 3 dams. Rock Island (the smallest) doesn't matter.
Grande Coulee? It's so damned remote, it's hard to get there today. Paras? How long do you expect them to hold out? Remember, we had the codes.
Bonneville? Lordy, lordy! It's 80-90 miles from Astoria to Portland. If your invasion force gets over the Columbia Bar...nasty place, they face this trip to the shipyards in Portland/Vancouver.

Open the gates at Bonneville and this force, if not flushed back into the Bar, it definitely is going to be delayed for many a day.

To quickly invade Seattle is just nuts.

Land at SF and try to drive North would be more difficult than any other concept.
The time line you mentioned in another post is nonsense. The bombers from Minnesota is nonsense. Go back to Europe, your detractors will be more limited.
GET A MAP!
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  #56  
Old 13 Jun 15, 01:05
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It's hilarious that Draco never looks at a map. Most of the Washington state, Oregon coastline looks like this:



Most of it is also arboreal forest for miles inland without roads or towns.

The major ports are well defended by coast defenses.

Puget Sound is a maze of islands and Seattle is inland on it. To invade Seattle, the attackers would have to negotiate that maze of islands and coast defenses then try to attack a major port and city that would be heavily defended.



But, Draco likes his two favorite non-substances to make it possible: PFM and Handwavium.
  #57  
Old 13 Jun 15, 13:24
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I lived in Moses Lake, WA for 11 years and travelled extensively along the coast, the Columbia and Snake rivers, National parks, etc,

Cranberries are produced in the NE US. In wild patches in the NW there are blackberries, Huckleberries, etc, but WA produced a lot of apples (harvested in the autumn, but stored year around), Cherries, pears, apricots, etc, Salmon, wheat, potatoes, etc, in the desert with water from the Columbia project. The coast produces excellent halibut, etc, and has quite a few whales.

The Puget sound had a huge USN base, where Saratoga was repaired after being torpedoed in early 1942, it then sailed to SD to collect her planes and then headed to Hawaii, so she didn't arrive in time for the battle of Midway.

There are a dozen good sites for a landing, including the Columbia. There were large caliber coastal batteries in Oregon for that reason. However, they had exposed crews during loading, just like in Oahu, so planes, mortars or even a grenade can wipe them out.

The army air base where the record flight from the USSR by a huge Soviet monoplane landed in the 30s and Marshal welcomed the aviators is extremely valuable for the invaders.

Landing in WA State and Oregon with air superiority is a piece of cake compared to landing repeatedly in Malaya (where they negotiated many coastal and field guns), in New Guinea (with Australian air superiority), Guadalcanal (under American air superiority), etc,

For Soviet far E troops, operating in WA state in May is a vacation, compared to just surviving in the E USSR, not to mention fighting at -40° C in Stalingrad, the Caucasus, Murmansk, Leningrad, Moscow, etc,

Except for dozens of miles over the Cascades the mostly flat RR and roads along the desertic Columbia basin are ideal for an invasion force (a desert with a navigable river and many dams) and even walking along the Cascades RR (if they do not capture a train) is a veritable walk in the park compared to the Kokoda trail, Burma, etc, The same holds for Idaho, Montana, Dakotas and Minnesota.
In contrast to other forests in the US, there is not even poison ivy in much of the NW.

The USN installations in Puget Sound are excellent for the Japanese.

Taking weak Seattle is easier than attacking Singapore through the Jungle, isolated from the mainland and defended by over 100,000 troops (which fell quite rapidly when the water was cut off, etc,), or Manila (defended by more brave Americans than Seattle, but which Mac declared an open city). So I don't think the small, weak and poorly defended and very valuable area Seattle-Tacoma-Vancouver, WA-Portland is any problem at all.

It is much easier for invaders from teh Sea to take the coast than for the uS to counter attack over the mountains with Japanese air and naval gun superiority.

Imagine the difference for WM grunts between walking from Poland to Leningrad, Moscow or Rostov, along scorcehd land, fighting 20,000 tanks and planes and strong defensive positions and knowing that this is just the beginning of the USSR or advancing along poorly defended, rich Maryland, DC, NJ, PA, etc, Knowing that strong allies are advancing rapidly from the W.

Last edited by Draco; 13 Jun 15 at 13:34..
  #58  
Old 13 Jun 15, 15:16
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Outbursts like these just go to show how little you really know about history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
Incredible arrogance and ignorance. The only reason the US got its independence was that France ruined its economy to provide financing, an army and a navy, without whch the US did not stand a chance in hell. Yorktown was a victory only thanks to the French fleet coinciding with the Americna and French armies. Most Americans did not fight an a large percentage were royalists (including Frankin's son) or opportunists who amassed fortunes from the war while the few soldiers starved and froze in Valley forge (saved in part by food supplied supplied by the Oneida, whom Washington betrayed after the war), so France contributed more thsn US citizens.
Bull.

Given the sizes of forces involved, 'victory' in the war for the British was always a long shot. Their last chance for a successful conclusion was 1777, after which victory was more or less impossible. Even assuming only 40-45 percent of the white population of the colonies were in the Patriot camp, this meant that about 40,000 British soldiers plus their German and native auxiliaries were tasked with subduing over 1 million people in their own country. The Loyalists, always counted on by the British to be the decisive factor, never even remotely lived up to expectations and were in many ways a liability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
Militarily the Americans were so incompetent that a fake Prussian officer saved them by writing the army manual and training them into a half decent force.
Myth.

The Americans never had to 'win,' they just had to 'not lose.' Von Steuben played his part, but he alone was not responsible for the victory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
Like I said, despite the Chinese killing far more Japanese troops and the Soviets killing infinitely more Germans than the Americans and the British shooting down thousands of German planes and destroying lots of U-boats even the Australians, New Zealanders, Indians, etc, helping considerably and having ample years unmolested to produce ridiculously large amounts of materiel, the US had a hell of a time in the few battles and small forces it faced.
Outright lies and undeserving of a response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
Perhaps You remember Roosevelt's speech about Americans never before having to produce so much in such a short time. Now imagine America having to produce a lot more in a much shorter time and while under attack and taking heavy bombing and losses (as in Russia, but in a much smaller area and against not only Germany and Romania, but a much stronger axis and the Soviets) and without imports or allies. Just fighting the USSR and its industry, instead of having it kill or wound millions of Germans and keep other millions busy for 4 years should make it clear to You the US is doomed. Just not counting with China absorbing the bulk of the Japanese army and killing or wounding hundreds of thousands of Japanese, but instead having hundreds of millions of Chinese working for the Japanese, also makes an immense difference. Add Brazil, France, etc, ME oil, unmolested German, Soviet and Italian industry, etc, and the US collapses in months. Imagine how much stronger the enemy becomes and how much weaker the US becomes just by the enemy rapidly taking poorly defended WA State, Tx or the California coast. All being attacked nearly simultaneously. Imagine the nightmare of trying to counter attack the invasion in the California Coast over the Pacific Crest and other areas simultaneously.
Fantasy. No other nation (or coalition of nations) had the means to even land meaningful numbers of troops on the mainland, let alone win a war of attrition there.

According to Paul Kennedy, the US in 1937 (that is, in the midst of the Depression) had 42% of the world's war-making power. Its GDP in 1944 was equal to the those of all other Axis and Allied powers combined. Over the space of a few short years, the US went from having an army smaller than that of Rumania to possessing the largest and most powerful fighting force the world had ever seen. So much materiel was produced (enough for 1000 divisions), that a great portion was actually sent overseas to form a considerable portion of the equipment strength of other armies. The vast American auto industry churned out more wheeled vehicles that all the other combatants combined, allowing the average US division to have 4 times as many vehicles attached to it than its German or Japanese counterpart. The US Navy was larger and more powerful than all the other navies of the world put together at their respective peak strengths. Only the United States could afford to invest billions into exotic 'Big Science' projects such as the Atom Bomb, which made the efforts of others look puny in comparison.

Think about that for a second. You really think such a power could have been defeated without the Atom bomb, which it would have, and did, acquire first?
  #59  
Old 13 Jun 15, 15:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
Incredible arrogance and ignorance. The only reason the US got its independence was that France ruined its economy to provide financing, an army and a navy, without whch the US did not stand a chance in hell. Yorktown was a victory only thanks to the French fleet coinciding with the Americna and French armies. Most Americans did not fight an a large percentage were royalists (including Frankin's son) or opportunists who amassed fortunes from the war while the few soldiers starved and froze in Valley forge (saved in part by food supplied supplied by the Oneida, whom Washington betrayed after the war), so France contributed more thsn US citizens.

Militarily the Americans were so incompetent that a fake Prussian officer saved them by writing the army manual and training them into a half decent force.

Like I said, despite the Chinese killing far more Japanese troops and the Soviets killing infinitely more Germans than the Americans and the British shooting down thousands of German planes and destroying lots of U-boats even the Australians, New Zealanders, Indians, etc, helping considerably and having ample years unmolested to produce ridiculously large amounts of materiel, the US had a hell of a time in the few battles and small forces it faced.

Perhaps You remember Roosevelt's speech about Americans never before having to produce so much in such a short time. Now imagine America having to produce a lot more in a much shorter time and while under attack and taking heavy bombing and losses (as in Russia, but in a much smaller area and against not only Germany and Romania, but a much stronger axis and the Soviets) and without imports or allies.

Just fighting the USSR and its industry, instead of having it kill or wound millions of Germans and keep other millions busy for 4 years should make it clear to You the US is doomed.
Just not counting with China absorbing the bulk of the Japanese army and killing or wounding hundreds of thousands of Japanese, but instead having hundreds of millions of Chinese working for the Japanese, also makes an immense difference.
Add Brazil, France, etc, ME oil, unmolested German, Soviet and Italian industry, etc, and the US collapses in months.

Imagine how much stronger the enemy becomes and how much weaker the US becomes just by the enemy rapidly taking poorly defended WA State, Tx or the California coast. All being attacked nearly simultaneously.

Imagine the nightmare of trying to counter attack the invasion in the California Coast over the Pacific Crest and other areas simultaneously.
Incredible arrogance and ignorance. The only reason the US got its independence was that France ruined its economy to provide financing, an army and a navy, without whch the US did not stand a chance in hell. Yorktown was a victory only thanks to the French fleet coinciding with the Americna and French armies. Most Americans did not fight an a large percentage were royalists (including Frankin's son) or opportunists who amassed fortunes from the war while the few soldiers starved and froze in Valley forge (saved in part by food supplied supplied by the Oneida, whom Washington betrayed after the war), so France contributed more thsn US citizens.

You tell them Draco old chap. Damned Colonial Rascals, never could organize a proper war.

Gad, me spleen's playing up again. Doctor, fetch the scarifier, I need a damned good bleeding!!!

Pshaw!!!
  #60  
Old 13 Jun 15, 15:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
I lived in Moses Lake, WA for 11 years and travelled extensively along the coast, the Columbia and Snake rivers, National parks, etc,

Cranberries are produced in the NE US. In wild patches in the NW there are blackberries, Huckleberries, etc, but WA produced a lot of apples (harvested in the autumn, but stored year around), Cherries, pears, apricots, etc, Salmon, wheat, potatoes, etc, in the desert with water from the Columbia project. The coast produces excellent halibut, etc, and has quite a few whales.
Anecdote is not evidence. The above is irrelevant.

Quote:
The Puget sound had a huge USN base, where Saratoga was repaired after being torpedoed in early 1942, it then sailed to SD to collect her planes and then headed to Hawaii, so she didn't arrive in time for the battle of Midway.
It isn't "huge." I was stationed there for a year and half.

Quote:
There are a dozen good sites for a landing, including the Columbia. There were large caliber coastal batteries in Oregon for that reason. However, they had exposed crews during loading, just like in Oahu, so planes, mortars or even a grenade can wipe them out.
How would you know other than by anecdote? You can't even give the locations the landings would occur or their actual size based on facts.
Instead, you blather on with ill-informed nonsense about what would happen as if it were already proven fact.
Those batteries are the same sort that were on Corregidor in the PI and they proved incredibly difficult to take out. For the most part, they never were and continued to operate right up to the surrender.
So, your claims are based on speculative nonsense while my rebuttal has historical fact backing it up.
You might also want to look at where those defenses actually are as opposed to making claims based on your own ill-informed nonsense.
One would also expect the US to heavily reinforce and expand them in this situation.

Quote:
The army air base where the record flight from the USSR by a huge Soviet monoplane landed in the 30s and Marshal welcomed the aviators is extremely valuable for the invaders.
WTF is this drivel?

Quote:
Landing in WA State and Oregon with air superiority is a piece of cake compared to landing repeatedly in Malaya (where they negotiated many coastal and field guns), in New Guinea (with Australian air superiority), Guadalcanal (under American air superiority), etc,
Show how the invaders gain air superiority. What are they using? What are their numbers? Where are their aircraft launching from? What bases and carriers?
Until you do you are using more PFM and Handwavium.
There were no coast defense guns in Malaya on the landing beaches the Japanese used. The biggest weapons were machineguns and a handful of older model field artillery.
Same goes in the PI.
The one place the Japanese ran into coast defenses for real trying a landing was Wake. The first one, they got their collective @$$es handed to them by a few 5"/51 guns.
Their landings in New Guinea were unopposed and they didn't run into opposition from Australian forces until they had almost reached Port Moresby by the Kokoda trail.
The US and Australia didn't gain air superiority until nearly a year later.

Quote:
For Soviet far E troops, operating in WA state in May is a vacation, compared to just surviving in the E USSR, not to mention fighting at -40° C in Stalingrad, the Caucasus, Murmansk, Leningrad, Moscow, etc,
Irrelevant drivel. Show me how you are going to supply those troops with thousands of tons of ammunition, thousands more in fuel, thousands more in general equipment, and tens of thousands more in replacement tanks, artillery, trucks, and everything else. The Soviet Pacific merchant marine is tiny. The Japanese can't even keep their own economy running with what they have.
I know you can't demonstrate how these invaders would actually move and then supply their forces because it can't actually be done. The numbers won't work. But, that's never stopped you from continuing to use those two favorite substances I keep mentioning: Pure Fing Magic and Handwavium. They are the things necessary for fantasy which is what you have here. The teenboy wet dream US invasion.

Quote:
Except for dozens of miles over the Cascades the mostly flat RR and roads along the desertic Columbia basin are ideal for an invasion force (a desert with a navigable river and many dams) and even walking along the Cascades RR (if they do not capture a train) is a veritable walk in the park compared to the Kokoda trail, Burma, etc, The same holds for Idaho, Montana, Dakotas and Minnesota.
In contrast to other forests in the US, there is not even poison ivy in much of the NW.
Look at map some time instead of making up geography. Or, is this happening on some different, alternate, Earth?

Quote:
The USN installations in Puget Sound are excellent for the Japanese.
Except, the US would have sabotaged and demolished them and the Japanese have no way to fix them. But, its a moot point because there's no way Japan could successfully invade and you can't prove even to the slightest degree that they actually could.

Quote:
Taking weak Seattle is easier than attacking Singapore through the Jungle, isolated from the mainland and defended by over 100,000 troops (which fell quite rapidly when the water was cut off, etc,), or Manila (defended by more brave Americans than Seattle, but which Mac declared an open city). So I don't think the small, weak and poorly defended and very valuable area Seattle-Tacoma-Vancouver, WA-Portland is any problem at all.
You need to look at a map. Malaysia is a road covered "cake walk" to use your terminology compared to marching inland from the Pacific Washington coast. There are NO roads in 1940, and next to none today.
Aside from that the above drivel is moot since you still haven't even explained the details of the invasion or what the invaders are doing it with. Right now, all you have is fantasy.

Quote:
It is much easier for invaders from teh Sea to take the coast than for the uS to counter attack over the mountains with Japanese air and naval gun superiority.
There's that lack of looking at maps again...

Quote:
Imagine the difference for WM grunts between walking from Poland to Leningrad, Moscow or Rostov, along scorcehd land, fighting 20,000 tanks and planes and strong defensive positions and knowing that this is just the beginning of the USSR or advancing along poorly defended, rich Maryland, DC, NJ, PA, etc, Knowing that strong allies are advancing rapidly from the W.
Imagine that for once you actually answered objections others make with rational factual rebuttals and use of historical examples and relevant map use rather than just making stuff up, using PFM and Handwavium to explain away the insane and impossible parts of your scenarios while blithely ignoring any and all objections.
If you can't answer the naysayers then this is, at least in my opinion, tantamount to trolling.
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